What is need to be a top four contender

[SydneySainter]

Despite the goal kicking yips returning, I still think the list is the best its looked in the last decade and we aren't necessarily too far off from being a top four side.

However, list improvement is still clearly needed. Therefore, what is it?

I for one still think we need another A-grade mid. We may not be able to get an elite mid, but another A-grade mid to complement Steele, Jones, Crouch, Gresham and Ross (when all are fit) may give us the extra inches needed.

I didn't include Hannebury in the above as I think it's a possibility that we've seen the last of him. Or at the least, we won't be part of any future flag tilt. His salary and contract length is also becoming a problem and may be the hurdle to overcome, if our list is to improve.

Thoughts?

[Teflon]

Nowhere near top 4 now imo
Paddy 1 year off retirement
Frawley patch job at best
1 paced midfield with no genuine outside dash and ball use capability
And our depth is paper thin with, outside Bytel/Byrnes, nothing coming through
To be genuine top 4 you need depth as there will be injuries
Then you look at our tail end list playing in the two’s....some spuds in there .....
What we do have going for us is a core that in 2-3 with some ruthless decisions made now could contend I include in that the likes of;
Marshall
King
Howard
Paton
Bytel
Byrnes
Clarke
Coffield
Wilkie
Higgins
Gresham
Steele

Imo players now at 26 plus who aren’t guns aren’t gonna be or they’re injury prone or struggle to hit a target I like Crouch but in 3 years time...not sure how durable he’ll be
I think we haven’t drafted long enough plus we’ve made some horrendous c**k up decisions as we all now know...
So how do you regenerate, give this core a shot, and make sure you still have some quality kids coming through ???
My main concern is all our recent top up players do just enough to leave us between 7th - 12.... no mans land and never really challenging the big boys consistently except for the odd game here and there.....

[shanegrambeau]

Very talented Players likely to improve and provide sustained value
Paton
Coffield
King
Marshall
Howard
Clarke

Players already very good and likely to remain so
Wilkie
Hill

Players who give reliable service and likely to continue to
Crouch
Ross
Joyce

Flashy players on/off
Butler
Higgins

Players who had value but will breakdown
Hannebury
Jones

Players who are near the end
Frawley
Ryder

Could bes but jury is out
Byrnes
Bytel

[B.M]

We are a fair bit off

Port, Brisbane, Western Bulldogs, Melbourne, Richmond and Geelong all better

We are in the next pack with
Freo, Essendon, Carlton, Sydney

[older saint]

Best 22 who would get games in top teams is always a good starting point:
- Steele
- Billings
- Marshall
- Clark
- Wilkie
- Howard
- Crouch
- Jones
- King

Off the top s of my head.

IMO what we lack to be top 4 is SILK . Clark and Hill are probably as close as we have but we need to find a players who when they have the ball is like Burgoyne was, like Cyril was, even like Dal Santo was.
Inside mids we have shown we can match - Steele, Crouch, Jones, Bytle, Ross,
Outside spread is an issue and classy HFF.
Not too far off but a couple holes to fill IMO

[cwrcyn]

The lack of highly talented young players is a worry. Yes, we have King, but Bytel and Byrnes are still with a question mark over them. We don't know what their best will be. Outside of that, there's nothing. What's really concerning is the lack of developing key defenders and ruckmen.

[ace]

Best 22 who would get games in top teams is always a good starting point:
- Steele
- Billings
- Marshall
- Clark
- Wilkie
- Howard
- Crouch
- Jones
- King

Off the top s of my head.

IMO what we lack to be top 4 is SILK . Clark and Hill are probably as close as we have but we need to find a players who when they have the ball is like Burgoyne was, like Cyril was, even like Dal Santo was.
Inside mids we have shown we can match - Steele, Crouch, Jones, Bytle, Ross,
Outside spread is an issue and classy HFF.
Not too far off but a couple holes to fill IMO

It's not your best 11players that win premierships its the other 11.
You need 22 players to win a premiership.
It only takes a couple of mediocre players that the opposition can exploit to lose a premiership.

[B.M]

Every premiership team has mediocre players who look good in a good team or are just role players

If you find effective roles for your C Graders (like Richmond) you will be successful

[Devilhead]

We need - a key forward - a key back - some skilled outside run - another ruck

So not much at all

[Teflon]

Every premiership team has mediocre players who look good in a good team or are just role players

If you find effective roles for your C Graders (like Richmond) you will be successful

Ofcourse but Ben Long and DMac ain’t getting games at Dogs Cats Tigers or Port ....

There’s C graders who play a role then there’s carrying players who aren’t up to it we have to many on our list that fall into the latter

[Devilhead]

We need - a key forward - a key back - some skilled outside run - another ruck

So not much at all

[Teflon]

Best 22 who would get games in top teams is always a good starting point:
- Steele
- Billings
- Marshall
- Clark
- Wilkie
- Howard
- Crouch
- Jones
- King

Off the top s of my head.

IMO what we lack to be top 4 is SILK . Clark and Hill are probably as close as we have but we need to find a players who when they have the ball is like Burgoyne was, like Cyril was, even like Dal Santo was.
Inside mids we have shown we can match - Steele, Crouch, Jones, Bytle, Ross,
Outside spread is an issue and classy HFF.
Not too far off but a couple holes to fill IMO

Good post largely agree
I’d add we need another key defender and another ruck...Paddy has 1 at best left ...Love him to play 2 as I think he has the body that is durable enough
We really need a silk mid who can run from congestion and use it well...we are definitely 1 paced inside
Ironically if we landed B King....do you then say Marshall’s a full time ruck ??
You could settle Battle back in defence

[Impatient Sainter]

I agree with Teflon our best 10 players are top 4 competent, but the remainder of our list are really poor. You only have to watch a couple of Sandringham games to acknowledge just how little depth we have coming through. As an example Hawthorn are 17th on the AFL ladder, but have far more potential depth playing at Box Hill than we have. Gallaghers & Lethleans attempt at topping up the list continuously with drafting and trading in mature aged recruits, has failed dismally and put our list 3-4 years behind where it should be.

[Joffa Burns]

We need - a key forward - a key back - some skilled outside run - another ruck

So not much at all

Key forward - Bruce
Key back - Bruce can go back
Outside run - Hind
Another ruck - Hickey

There you go

Interesting;
Hickey - pick largely became Hannebery (out injured)
Bruce - pick largely became Jones (out injured)
Hind - didn't use pick

[SaintPav]

We need - a key forward - a key back - some skilled outside run - another ruck

So not much at all

Key forward - Bruce
Key back - Bruce can go back
Outside run - Hind
Another ruck - Hickey

There you go

Interesting;
Hickey - pick largely became Hannebery (out injured)
Bruce - pick largely became Jones (out injured)
Hind - didn't use pick

Is Hind that good?

[Joffa Burns]

We need - a key forward - a key back - some skilled outside run - another ruck

So not much at all

Key forward - Bruce
Key back - Bruce can go back
Outside run - Hind
Another ruck - Hickey

There you go

Interesting;
Hickey - pick largely became Hannebery (out injured)
Bruce - pick largely became Jones (out injured)
Hind - didn't use pick

Is Hind that good?

It was a joke

[SaintPav]

We need - a key forward - a key back - some skilled outside run - another ruck

So not much at all

Key forward - Bruce
Key back - Bruce can go back
Outside run - Hind
Another ruck - Hickey

There you go

Interesting;
Hickey - pick largely became Hannebery (out injured)
Bruce - pick largely became Jones (out injured)
Hind - didn't use pick

Is Hind that good?

It was a joke

[Yorkeys]

Current list is better than sides that contended for wooden spoon. Granted. However...

Big picture issues.
1. Injuries, putting them all down to bad luck may be head in sand-ish. It seems clear Marshall's injury has been mishandled, came back too soon and what do we have. Roughy breaking Paton's leg was unforgivable notwithstanding it was not his intention (what was it by the way). Imagine Cummins bowling short to Smith in the nets on a wet pitch, nonsensical to be preseason training like that - friendly fire be damned. Were there no warning signs Gresh was feeling his achilles. Zac Jones is an injury waiting to happen; Hannebery, well. Our whole approach to injury risk management needs to be professionally reviewed because it is costing far too much. If it comes back that all were the act of god then so be it, but the attrition rate for soft tissue stuff to essential players and DMac is off the charts it seems and should not be passed off as simply back luck.
2. Unforced turnovers. They are killing us. Defence does not have time to reset. Learn to kick to advantage even if it means forcing a stoppage. Gifting goals is dumb footy.
3. Forward line need serious choreographing. Looks like free style ad libbing rather than any set moves or tactics.
4. Recruit sufficient number of players with footy smarts. We seem to have too many with no footy IQ despite their athleticism.
5. Develop younger players. Bytel, Byrnes, Clark all good stuff. Coffield, Long, Duncan, DMac, any young ruck: unaffordable waste.

[Banger9798]

I don't think we are far away from top 4 as some on here suggest.
If we'd kicked straighter and beaten Cats, we would be talking about how close we are.

2 major concerns:
Depth is a concern for sure
Reliance on Ryder and Frawley to make us threat.

But into this side Paton Coffield and Gresham, all will be excellent skilful dangerous players and all under 23.
And Jones who has been in AA form until injury.

We need a swag of youngsters in this year to develop, but we have a very good nucleus.

Agree Chol from Tigers would be a good trade....and they are contracted to give us a player every year