The Butler-Higgins Combo

[Sainternist]

It was initially a great prospect, but it has turned out to be a deadset bust. The forward line simply can’t function at its full potential with these two on the same team. It’s almost as though they cancel each other out.

One of them has to go by next year!

[Teflon]

Butler has done his 1 good year been found out
Did it at Tiges too
Higgins makes errors but he gets to dangerous spots still and at least impacts the scoreboard
I’d rather see Butler and Kent home from forward line and play Sharman and NWM or even Long occasionally for done mongrel

[seano1]

The whole forward doesn’t function…..have heard they didn’t even train on forward 50 entries over the summer …..a thing that has let us down over the past years along with not being able to hit a target with hand or foot, but we have seriously good tall timber that don’t spread out to stretch the defence and along with one short following the one tall may just help

[The Fireman]

Butler needs a holiday

[SunnyErnie]

It was initially a great prospect, but it has turned out to be a deadset bust. The forward line simply can’t function at its full potential with these two on the same team. It’s almost as though they cancel each other out.

One of them has to go by next year!

I disagree. Play the combo of Butler and Higgins but get rid of Kent. You don't need 3 small forwards. Ratts has the stupid obsession to play all 3 of them when really the third spot should be Sharman. It all comes down to the coaches inability to understand the modern game.

HF. Membrey - Sharman - Billings
FF. Butler - King - Higgins

You don't need 3 smalls forwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WellardSaint]

Butler should play at Sandy until he gets 'better in that space'.
Higgins should get another 3 games to regain some form.
Then if not, Sandy too.
I don't care who comes in for both, but not Kent

[WellardSaint]

Butler should play at Sandy until he gets 'better in that space'.
Higgins should get another 3 games to regain some form.
Then if not, Sandy too.
I don't care who comes in for both, but not Kent

[shanegrambeau]

Butler is enigmatic.
See that deft touch as he just pattered that ball mid flight into another player’s hands? Sweet..
I have mentioned it before.
He is now a chaser. Almost like a defensive forward.
Don’t know what’s going on.
Maybe because Max King has strong hands, the ball doesn’t come over the pack anymore? Dunno..it’s a mystery. Still tries.

[Banger9798]

Sharman for Kent,

[bangaulegend]

It's obviously not working so why flog the dead horse. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over & over again expecting a different result. Lets just think outside the square & try something different might not work but at least we are giving it crack IMO anyway

[B.M]

Butler was rated the #1 pressure forward last season

More to playing forward than kicking goals

It’s about creating scoring opportunities

[bergsone]

If we are losing in the midfield they will struggle

[Ghost Like]

I think we persevere with them. Add Sharman, Wood, Membrey as your medium mobile marking targets complimenting King as the key.

I like Long but cannot say he's shown more than Butler or Higgins as a dangerous forward.

The point of who makes up our F50 is moot if we cannot win centre clearances and our delivery inside is hit & hope.

[The Craw]

Higgins needs to be dropped after Friday's performance.

He picks and chooses when he wants to compete .... that non pass to Gresham was inexcusable.

At least Butler gives 100% regardless of low stats.

[samoht]

If we had 3 superstar small forwards who are also playmakers - I'd play them all - but if they are there largely to negate or be the end-receivers around goal and if they are not even kicking their fair share - no, thank you.

How many times have we seen them get easily out-bodied and out-marked?

Tall or mid-sized players will at least use their body and height and their tackles will stick - and if they can win their own ball, I'd have them ahead of a couple of our small forwards.

[Winmar]

If Higgins starts nailing more of his chances he'll look like a star.

Butler succeeded in 2020 when the forward line opened up and let him run over the back into open goals. For whatever reason that hasn't happened in a while.

But yeah, it's not working so far.

[Sainternist]

It was initially a great prospect, but it has turned out to be a deadset bust. The forward line simply can’t function at its full potential with these two on the same team. It’s almost as though they cancel each other out.

One of them has to go by next year!

I disagree. Play the combo of Butler and Higgins but get rid of Kent. You don't need 3 small forwards. Ratts has the stupid obsession to play all 3 of them when really the third spot should be Sharman. It all comes down to the coaches inability to understand the modern game.

HF. Membrey - Sharman - Billings
FF. Butler - King - Higgins

You don't need 3 smalls forwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I at least agree with you in playing Sharman instead of the likes of Kent.

[B.M]

Most, if not all teams have 3 small forwards

[Ghost Like]

Most, if not all teams have 3 small forwards

It's not working for us or we have not got three who are good enough. Do we continue to persist? Or try something different? Unlike the 6-6-6, I do not think it's a rule to have 3 smalls.

[Impatient Sainter]

Our forward line is not our issue, its our midfield and the manner in which we deliver into the F50. Our coaches have our tall forwards to set up for the traditional bomb the ball on Max Kings head. When the opposition pressure slows our ball movement it allows their ruckman and midfield to floodback. Blaming players like Butler or Higgins is short sighted IMO, both are trying to put pressure on the opposition but are simply out numbered.

What I think Ratten needs to look at is rotating the small forwards through other positions, when they are not getting their hands on the footy.

Its Ratten and our midfield that should be copping the criticism!

Tony74 has said Darren Rath has far too much influence on things, so perhaps we can point the finger at him.

[Wayne42]

Our forward line is not our issue, its our midfield and the manner in which we deliver into the F50. Our coaches have our tall forwards to set up for the traditional bomb the ball on Max Kings head. When the opposition pressure slows our ball movement it allows their ruckman and midfield to floodback. Blaming players like Butler or Higgins is short sighted IMO, both are trying to put pressure on the opposition but are simply out numbered.

What I think Ratten needs to look at is rotating the small forwards through other positions, when they are not getting their hands on the footy.

Its Ratten and our midfield that should be copping the criticism!

Tony74 has said Darren Rath has far too much influence on things, so perhaps we can point the finger at him.

It's David Rath.

https://www.saints.com.au/news/702672/i ... david-rath

[Scollop]

If we had 3 superstar small forwards who are also playmakers - I'd play them all - but if they are there largely to negate or be the end-receivers around goal and if they are not even kicking their fair share - no, thank you.

How many times have we seen them get easily out-bodied and out-marked?

Tall or mid-sized players will at least use their body and height and their tackles will stick - and if they can win their own ball, I'd have them ahead of a couple of our small forwards.

You’ll like me reply mate….

It’s the recruiters making the same mistakes over and over. They recruit Butler and… while we still have Lonie, Gresham, and Billings on the list they go and get Higgins…why? Ok, so they get rid of Lonie who was selfish and didn’t make good decisions and now we’ve got the same issues with Higgo. No doubt some of the young draftees are going to have to play the small forward role as well as they build a tank and build their muscle strength to cope with midfield duties

We were bombing it in long on several occasions and we’ve been known for a team who gets it in quick to dangerous spots, but the problem on Friday night was that the small forwards weren’t doing their job of crumbing the loose ground ball.

I don’t know what the solution is long term, but I’d have Billings and Long as high half forwards and perhaps play Butler deep. If Higgins cannot build a tank to play as a midfielder he should not get another contract. It isn’t relevant that he supported the Saints as a kid

[Yorkeys]

"Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Mon 21 Mar 2022 7:45pm

Tony74 has said Darren Rath has far too much influence on things, so perhaps we can point the finger at him.
It's David Rath.

https://www.saints.com.au/news/702672/i ... david-rath"

Selected Quotes from that link:

1. Explosive and instinctive players like Jonathon Marsh, Matty Parker and Nicholas Hind – who wield the potential to be deployed as opposition off-setters – could benefit most from Ratten’s philosophy.

2. while Josh Battle’s reading of the play........

Anything wrong with this picture, insights have aged well, si senor Guru?

[Saints58]

Why not play Butler on the HBF or midfield if Sinclair in middle he could use his pace to break the lines and has good ball use.
This would ad pace to either defence or the midfield which is sorely lacking right now.
Unfortunately I don't see any if only 1 change for next week and that would be Geary in young guy out I really hope I am wrong with this but that seems to be the process with selection young guys out should give them a go.
I know we did last year and it was great but it was due manly to injury.

[Impatient Sainter]

Why not play Butler on the HBF or midfield if Sinclair in middle he could use his pace to break the lines and has good ball use.
This would ad pace to either defence or the midfield which is sorely lacking right now.
Unfortunately I don't see any if only 1 change for next week and that would be Geary in young guy out I really hope I am wrong with this but that seems to be the process with selection young guys out should give them a go.
I know we did last year and it was great but it was due manly to injury.

Totally agree - why not rotate Butler & Higgins for quick bursts in the midfield (its something he should have tried in the preseason). Ratts is starting to 'pidgeon hole' players similiar to Richardson eg continually going back to the same players who couldnt win a stoppage clearance to save themselves.