A Ratten hypothetical

[Sainternist]

What if Ratten’s contract hadn’t been renewed this year and we fired him? With Clarko getting snapped up by North, I can’t imagine a coaching vacancy at Moorabbin would have got in the way of his decision in heading to Arden Street. The chances are we’d be searching high and low for a new coach right now, just like Essendon is doing I mean, who the heck would we get as our new coach?

It wouldn’t exactly an ideal position for the club to be in.

So, maybe the re-signing of Ratten to a 2 year deal isn’t as daunting as it first seemed? Quite frankly, I’m slightly relieved we’re in the current situation we’re in with a coach who has some idea what he’s doing, than being in coaching limbo.

But yeah, feel free to disagree, or add to the discussion.

[Yorkeys]

What if Ratten’s contract hadn’t been renewed this year and we fired him? With Clarko getting snapped up by North, I can’t imagine a coaching vacancy at Moorabbin would have got in the way of his decision in heading to Arden Street. The chances are we’d be searching high and low for a new coach right now, just like Essendon is doing I mean, who the heck would we get as our new coach?

It wouldn’t exactly an ideal position for the club to be in.

So, maybe the re-signing of Ratten to a 2 year deal isn’t as daunting as it first seemed? Quite frankly, I’m slightly relieved we’re in the current situation we’re in with a coach who has some idea what he’s doing, than being in coaching limbo.

But yeah, feel free to disagree, or add to the discussion.

Thing is no one knew Craig McCrea was a gun until Pies did the unthinkable and boot Buckley.
Shine has gone off Ratts following the terrible second half of '22.
Question I ask myself going home on the long cold train rides is could we have possibly done worse with any other coach against Essendon, Freo and Dogs, and reply no, Shelby the dog could oversee those travesties.
Ratts knows he has one more season to make finals. If you learn from your mistakes he will be super in '23. Has he?

[st.byron]

Shouldn't have been extended mid-season. Should have waited until the end of the year and then made a hard headed decision about his tenure. Extending mid-season shut the door on any other possibility and cobbles the 'review' coz he's locked in.

[WellardSaint]

I wonder whether the club sounded out Lenny before they considered renewing Cuddles.
I know the club seems to have a history of unbelievable decisions, but maybe, this time, Finnis+Lethers and others sat around a table and nutted out all the pros and cons of extending Cuddles, with Lenny's promise right there on the table.

Not renewing Cuddles means uncertainty over who would be interested, and whether they're a good fit.
They realised Boris is tracking nicely, they figured Lenny with his GWS experience (plus his name and loyalty) had to be a huge plus, and keeping Cuddles would demonstrate stability to coterie members and big sponsors.

I think dropping Cuddles and hoping to snag someone better would be like not renewing a lease on a rented house, and hoping you could find something better before your lease finally runs out

[Sebastian Tombs]

Maybe just get Ross Lyon back

[Impatient Sainter]

Ratten has a lot of ground to make up if he wants to keep his job after 2023 IMO. As stated even if the club didnt renew his contract - I doubt Clarkson would have cut his grass in any event? That would leave the options pretty thin.

[bigcarl]

I haven't given up on Ratten, but I hope he's learned some lessons from 2022. In particular the forward structure and ball movement into the forward line. That has to improve. CANNOT rely solely on King as the only big target and we have to move it quicker and with more precision.

Also, the brittle mindset of the team at times and lack of resilience to small hiccups during games was disappointing.

Let's hope Lenny is given free reign to revv up the midfield and to re-shape it if necessary.

[Vortex]

The coach is the least of our problems, the list is a significant problem that could end in us being in a total rebuild by 2024.

This year's and next years trade period will seal our fate, if Kyle Hartigan is our marquee signing this year then I have great concern.

[shanegrambeau]

Tell me something Ratts has done, or is doing wrong?

Or a general weakness?

[repta]

Ratts has Plan A. Which has now been worked out.
Never came up with Plan B.

Game day appears to be clueless.

Being the players best mate is ok. But doesn't bring them to account. Leadership an issue on and off the ground.

[Teflon]

Just deal in facts
We have now gone backwards every year since yr 1 of his coaching tenure
This list is better than it’s playing but he’s not capable of putting in a game plan the players can buy into with confidence
The skill levels (affected by poor ball movement/game plan) ARE part of his responsibility and we are woeful
People b!TCH on the list - as noted in the media around Essendon last few days…..list manager and coach must work hand in glove to get the needs into the club they desire ….if our list is so terrible …after 3 years Ratten can’t be innocent
It’s a joke he was signed
Many on here said it ahead of time - wait to end of year
But Bassat and Co have been sold a lemon ….that’s why I think Bassatt has finally realised he and the Board need to be a little more hands and not just gulp down what they’re being sold…
As for OP??? Who would we have got???
We’ll never know- is Yze the next McRae ?? Would Clarkson have considered us????
Too late we’ve got Brett for another 2….but if we are treading water this time next year I think he’s gone

[shanegrambeau]

Ratts has Plan A. Which has now been worked out.
Never came up with Plan B.

Game day appears to be clueless.

Being the players best mate is ok. But doesn't bring them to account. Leadership an issue on and off the ground.

What do you attribute to our absolutely hopeless effort in the first quarter of Spuds game?

Is that Ratts? (Hypothetical)
I guess so.

[WellardSaint]

Tell me something Ratts has done, or is doing wrong?

Or a general weakness?

1. Team is unable to halt a slide.
2. Can turn the ball over far too often.
3. Lets oppos kick lots of goals in the last 6 minutes of a quarter.
4. Puts too much faith in an overpaid Prince Harry mercenary who only came for the money, who is aware he won't be dropped

Want more?

[Teflon]

Tell me something Ratts has done, or is doing wrong?

Or a general weakness?

1. Team is unable to halt a slide.
2. Can turn the ball over far too often.
3. Lets oppos kick lots of goals in the last 6 minutes of a quarter.
4. Puts too much faith in an overpaid Prince Harry mercenary who only came for the money, who is aware he won't be dropped

Want more?

The most damning is this side played 1 4 quarter gane of footy all year….1?????
Coaches job is to get his team up
He’s failed

[whiskers3614]

Maybe just get Ross Lyon back

Just don’t ask him to interview or present his vision.
I suppose we all know what his vision is:
Six goals to five
And bugger anyone not in his top twenty five or so

[shanegrambeau]

Tell me something Ratts has done, or is doing wrong?

Or a general weakness?

1. Team is unable to halt a slide.
2. Can turn the ball over far too often.
3. Lets oppos kick lots of goals in the last 6 minutes of a quarter.
4. Puts too much faith in an overpaid Prince Harry mercenary who only came for the money, who is aware he won't be dropped

Want more?

Allow me..
1) Halt slide...applies to many sides. Look at Bevo last week.
2) chicken and egg here...unforced errors, perceived pressure, can't change gears. Tough spot for Ratts. Accused of not playing tempo in '21, accused of conservative chipping in '22. Dunno.n You may have a point.
3) Oppo goals in dying minutes of quarters, yep. but he 'aint Robinson Curuso there either. Look at Carlton.
4) Picking Hill again? or picking on Hill again? I think Hill should play, based on what I've seen, but it was going badly so..who knows

[Vortex]

Tell me something Ratts has done, or is doing wrong?

Or a general weakness?

1. Team is unable to halt a slide.
2. Can turn the ball over far too often.
3. Lets oppos kick lots of goals in the last 6 minutes of a quarter.
4. Puts too much faith in an overpaid Prince Harry mercenary who only came for the money, who is aware he won't be dropped

Want more?

Has the worst list in the comp and is unable to turn a pigs ear into a silk purse.

[spert]

I would say if he was a soccer coach in a major league, he would be gone by now.

[B.M]

Genuine question

Which team did we finish below do we have a better list than?

[Sanctorum]

Has the worst list in the comp and is unable to turn a pigs ear into a silk purse.

That's how I see it too, quite unreasonable to judge Brett Ratten's coaching when the playing list is so bereft of quality talent - this year St Kilda had just 3 players to ever be selected All Australian and that includes Paddy Ryder who's well past his best, plus Jack Steele (once) and Jack Sinclair (once). I doubt if even master coach Alastair Clarkson (who was never going to pass over his old club North Melbourne to take on the St Kilda job) would have got much more out of this team in 2022.

Yes, I acknowledge that it has been hard to work out what the game plans were this year, but I put that down to the fact that in so many games players lacked the skills to nail their targets, often resulting in disastrous turnovers which put the team on the backfoot and become a shambles.

On the question of game plans, we often see teams put such extreme pressure on the opposition ball carriers that whatever game plan the losing team had goes out the window - for example the way Melbourne demolished the "well coached" Brisbane by 58 points in Round 23, in front of a sell out crowd at the Gabba no less!

I believe the club did the sensible thing at the time to extend Ratten's contract - and I am quite sure that would have been after they had explored all alternatives including Clarkson.

Of experienced coaches on the market at that time there were just Ross Lyon and Leon Cameron, and whilst Craig McRae has proved to be an inspired choice by Collingwood, how often does that happen? By the same token, McRae inherited a bloody good list with many experienced and elite players.....

As has been acknowledged many times before, the forthcoming trade and draft period will be crucial to improving the list and if the club can snag another three youngster like they did last year we're in for significant progress in 2023.

[Vortex]

Genuine question

Which team did we finish below do we have a better list than?

Id say none, at the start of the year I said we were capable of about 6th to 8th if we had incredibly good luck with injury and every player was available for the whole of 23 rounds. I also said we were a house of cards and only needed one or two injuries to falter. Have been saying since before R1 this year that we had a fragile list that was delicately balanced, conquer or crash, well you could say we conquered until the bye and crashed after it due to said injuries.

Paddy was and will be a massive loss that may impact us significantly as our midfield was able to over achieve with him in the side. Our Marquee No.4 DP forward is spluttering, and our backline needs a Steven May type.

Our core is suspect and the availably of AFL capable players drops away dramatically after about 10 to 12 on the list.

The recruiting of 2019 was seen as a significant win however in hindsight it looks like all we did by bringing the fab five in was to delay a possible total rebuild.

The recruiting of 2020 was a complete bust.

The recruiting of 2021 is something we need to replicate for another 2 or 3 years.

Our finals appearance in 2020 can now surely be categorised as a bit of slap and tickle to pass the time while a severe flu season set upon the world. Gave many a false sense of a new dawn, mostly those who wouldn't accept it was just a Covid Cup.

And it would be handy if we could find a DeGoey type to liven up our one dimensional midfield...oh and a Paddy replacement.

Should be easy.

[CQ SAINT]

Shouldn't have been extended mid-season. Should have waited until the end of the year and then made a hard headed decision about his tenure. Extending mid-season shut the door on any other possibility and cobbles the 'review' coz he's locked in.

You are assuming Clarkson didn't pick Nth 12 months ago, when Collingwood dumped.....ah Nathan quit and the Poos picked McRae.

[CQ SAINT]

North have more money, have had a clean out and got high drafts picks in, they have better picks now and he has a lot more time to get them going.
Clarkson will have topped up his retirement before the even get in the 8 and then he will guild the lilly with another 4 years, while he trains yet another assistant to replace him.

[Ghost Like]

The coach is the least of our problems, the list is a significant problem that could end in us being in a total rebuild by 2024.

This year's and next years trade period will seal our fate, if Kyle Hartigan is our marquee signing this year then I have great concern.

I have to ask. What fate is being sealed?

[Vortex]

The coach is the least of our problems, the list is a significant problem that could end in us being in a total rebuild by 2024.

This year's and next years trade period will seal our fate, if Kyle Hartigan is our marquee signing this year then I have great concern.

I have to ask. What fate is being sealed?

My view is if we don't have incredibly good trade periods equivalent to or better to last year's including bringing in a marquee mid then I think this list build will fail and we'll be in a complete rebuild by 2024. Paddy is a massive loss also so it's going to be interesting to see how we go. And will need the new kids to continue delivering on early promise. The Obvious stuff