Ross Lyon and Finals

[cps]

In light of Kane Corne's comments in The Age recently I thought it would be interesting to gauge opinions:

[Vortex]

With the full list available it would have probably been expected by many pundits.

But gets a honeymoon period in his first season with the injury crisis especially to the key players.

Probably a good thing in a way as it takes the pressure off and allows more exploration and experimentation.

[meher baba]

I’m always hoping we’ll make the finals.

And we have a good enough list to do so, if Membrey, Windhager, Ross and King can all get back reasonably soon. Billings and Hayes would be handy too.

But what really is going to matter this year is how we play, not where we finish. I cant describe exactly what I want to see, but we’ll all know it when we see it.

I saw a glimmer or two against the Bombers. Yes, we don’t have a proper forward line ATM, so we won’t be kicking any winning scores. But we won’t be easy to run up cricket scores against either.

[cps]

Bump!

[SaintWiki]

We don't really know his plans, and plans can change, so none of us have any idea about what to expect - even what supporters think is practical and hope for differ greatly.

[ctqs]

We've just missed the finals the past two years. The list hasn't changed substantially. We got rid of the coach to get a better one. He has to make finals or else it's a failed season.

[WellardSaint]

Vortex summed it up perfectly.

Look, even if we had no injuries at all, I say our list isn't as good as say, Carlton, who have Curnow and Mackay as twin threats up fwd.

We can't pin all our hopes on King, because you need 2 big guns up fwd.
Look at Tigers with Thug Lynch n Reiwoldt.
Cats- Hawkins+Cameron.
Our list isn't that good, even with the magician Windy, an impressive Owen, and an emerging NWM.
It's a work in progress, and this season will be a time to assess the list to weed out the 'not quite good enoughs'.

End of season, they delist, trade, chase FA, recruit, then 2024 will definitely be a finals year.

[Vortex]

The list hasn't changed substantially.

So this is the reason we won't be making finals this year.

The list at full strength is capable of just falling into the finals to just make up the numbers.

However, being at full strength and just making up the numbers are the significant issues.

Expect the word 'rebuild' to be introduced into discussion at some stage throughout the season.

[Scollop]

Without Hannebery and Ryder it's going to be difficult

We could also use Jarryn's skills in the forward line. Geary was a good contested mark against opponents with equal height and very good at his set shots

As long as Ross is happy and keeps smiling and cracking jokes, I think Saints and all opposition clubs will be ok with us missing out on finals

Sh!+t..I forgot to vote. Is voting compulsory?

[Scollop]

Vortex summed it up perfectly.

Look, even if we had no injuries at all, I say our list isn't as good as say, Carlton, who have Curnow and Mackay as twin threats up fwd.

We can't pin all our hopes on King, because you need 2 big guns up fwd.
Look at Tigers with Thug Lynch n Reiwoldt.
Cats- Hawkins+Cameron.
Our list isn't that good, even with the magician Windy, an impressive Owen, and an emerging NWM.
It's a work in progress, and this season will be a time to assess the list to weed out the 'not quite good enoughs'.

End of season, they delist, trade, chase FA, recruit, then 2024 will definitely be a finals year.

On the matter of 2 big gun forwards, you also have
Brisbane who have Hipwood and Daniher

Bulldogs boast a wealth of key talls with Naughton and Lobb as well as the beanstalk Darcy.

Melbourne have Brown and McDonald with both Gawn and Grundy very capable...

Not to mention Dees, Dogs and Lions have quality and depth with their midfields

I think Tiges and Cats (and the Dees, Dogs and Lions) make top 5 with Carlton, Sydney, Freo and Collingwood challenging for a spot in finals

[Teflon]

With the full list available it would have probably been expected by many pundits.

But gets a honeymoon period in his first season with the injury crisis especially to the key players.

Probably a good thing in a way as it takes the pressure off and allows more exploration and experimentation.

I thought the list wasn’t skilled/good enough regardless of injuries?

[Teflon]

The list hasn't changed substantially.

So this is the reason we won't be making finals this year.

The list at full strength is capable of just falling into the finals to just make up the numbers.

However, being at full strength and just making up the numbers are the significant issues.

Expect the word 'rebuild' to be introduced into discussion at some stage throughout the season.

Now you’re talking sense
Let’s hope rebuild comes out early
No point finishing 10-14 for 8 years with false dawns off the back of Covid interruptions ffs
Side can’t possibly challenge top 4 seriously with this list
RTB knows it
Knew it when he took over hence 4 years
Bassatt FINALLY knows it too
This year I want to see:

1. A structured gane plan that can stand up when challenged
2. Sone kids take the next step and seriously pressure some senior people for spots
3. Plodders who wouldn’t get a game at hood clubs gone
4. A successful draft haul (Silvagni appointment concerns me..)

[Scollop]

Silvagni has good Intel on ex GWS and Carlton players..as well as any kid that went to school with his sons

[samuraisaint]

Without Hannebery and Ryder it's going to be difficult

We could also use Jarryn's skills in the forward line. Geary was a good contested mark against opponents with equal height and very good at his set shots

As long as Ross is happy and keeps smiling and cracking jokes, I think Saints and all opposition clubs will be ok with us missing out on finals

Sh!+t..I forgot to vote. Is voting compulsory?

I agree with everything you're saying, but those players, as great as they were, hardly played after 2018.
I think we lost our two best players when Dan and Paddy retired, but the reality is that all three have had injury issues.

On a similar note, I wonder why so many of our players are now carrying long term injuries after pres-season training?
It is eerily similar to when Malcolm Blight coached us in 2001.

[Scollop]

Without Hannebery and Ryder it's going to be difficult

We could also use Jarryn's skills in the forward line. Geary was a good contested mark against opponents with equal height and very good at his set shots

As long as Ross is happy and keeps smiling and cracking jokes, I think Saints and all opposition clubs will be ok with us missing out on finals

Sh!+t..I forgot to vote. Is voting compulsory?

I agree with everything you're saying, but those players, as great as they were, hardly played after 2018.
I think we lost our two best players when Dan and Paddy retired, but the reality is that all three have had injury issues.

On a similar note, I wonder why so many of our players are now carrying long term injuries after pres-season training?
It is eerily similar to when Malcolm Blight coached us in 2001.

Thanks for taking the post seriously
It was mainly tongue in cheek

No doubt that Ryder made a huge difference in his first year. He wasn't at his best last year. Hannas was just insignificant. He wasn't the reason we made finals

I think Jarryn united the group really well and was a very good player and captain in 2020

[samuraisaint]

The list hasn't changed substantially.

So this is the reason we won't be making finals this year.

The list at full strength is capable of just falling into the finals to just make up the numbers.

However, being at full strength and just making up the numbers are the significant issues.

Expect the word 'rebuild' to be introduced into discussion at some stage throughout the season.

Now you’re talking sense
Let’s hope rebuild comes out early
No point finishing 10-14 for 8 years with false dawns off the back of Covid interruptions ffs
Side can’t possibly challenge top 4 seriously with this list
RTB knows it
Knew it when he took over hence 4 years
Bassatt FINALLY knows it too
This year I want to see:

1. A structured gane plan that can stand up when challenged
2. Sone kids take the next step and seriously pressure some senior people for spots
3. Plodders who wouldn’t get a game at hood clubs gone
4. A successful draft haul (Silvagni appointment concerns me..)

A lot of our young inexperienced players will get extended exposure to senior football in the first 8 rounds you would have to expect now. This will give our recruits a real chance to show what they are capable of, and blocks of games to be given a chance.
I agreed with another poster on here who said that we will struggle to kick winning scores with the forward line we will send out in the first third of the season, but a game plan built around a defensive structure which can stand up to pressure.

I don't think we need to do a full rebuild, because we are already rebuilding. We already have Owens, Windhager, NWM, Phillipou, Gresham, Clark, Coffield and Paton. They will all become very good players.

And guys like Bytel, Sharman and Tom Highmore should be getting regular games due to the injuries which will allow them a chance. I really liked what I saw from Bytel and Sharman in 2021 and they have now played a lot of VFL games so they should be physically mature enough to try to establish themselves at senior level now.

We only have one player over thirty now. Our core of senior players are around the 26-27 year mark so they should be ready to go to the next level by now and are not anywhere near retiring. No need to rebuild, due to injuries we are not going to finish in the top 8, but our friendly fixture should definitely see us win 12 games if we perform well, if not 8-9 wins as a bare minimum. I think the fact we play sides we often beat regularly (Hawks, North, Suns, Blues and Tigers) should see us win a minimum of 8 games against them, and we play teams like the Crows, Giants and Eagles interstate, which on the balance of probabilities we win 2/3, that's ten wins.

If we win ten games we could finish as low as 11th and so long as we nail our first two picks we will be on our way. The 'rebuild' has already started.

[Vortex]

The list hasn't changed substantially.

So this is the reason we won't be making finals this year.

The list at full strength is capable of just falling into the finals to just make up the numbers.

However, being at full strength and just making up the numbers are the significant issues.

Expect the word 'rebuild' to be introduced into discussion at some stage throughout the season.

Now you’re talking sense
Let’s hope rebuild comes out early
No point finishing 10-14 for 8 years with false dawns off the back of Covid interruptions ffs
Side can’t possibly challenge top 4 seriously with this list
RTB knows it
Knew it when he took over hence 4 years
Bassatt FINALLY knows it too
This year I want to see:

1. A structured gane plan that can stand up when challenged
2. Sone kids take the next step and seriously pressure some senior people for spots
3. Plodders who wouldn’t get a game at hood clubs gone
4. A successful draft haul (Silvagni appointment concerns me..)

I recon I've been posting the same prediction for the past 2 years, as Josh Jenkins puts it, "your best ability is your availability".

Anyone being objective about our list will agree it's a middle of the ladder list, capable of falling into the 8 or dropping considerably depending on how much luck we get with injury.

Yeah I've heard Ross knows it too, how can he not, we are just the dumb fans and we know it, he's paid the big bucks to know it.

Now Coffs is out 4 to 6 weeks and Members ruled out of R1.

I actually think bottom 4 is possible which won't be a bad thing if the club is already putting a line through finals.

[Scollop]

Ross should just relax this year and let Banger and Enright coach. The club need to take the pressure off Ross so he can best prepare for 2024.

[Teflon]

Geezus Coffield gone 4-6
Membrey out Rd 1
Hayes now 10-12 weeks away
Jones /DMac etc Indefinite
Even Ross now out??????
What the fork did we do to the injury gods???
Just get picks ffs

[CQ SAINT]

The list hasn't changed substantially.

So this is the reason we won't be making finals this year.

The list at full strength is capable of just falling into the finals to just make up the numbers.

However, being at full strength and just making up the numbers are the significant issues.

Expect the word 'rebuild' to be introduced into discussion at some stage throughout the season.

With the loss of Geary and the addition of Stocker, the list has improved.

Phillipou improves the list. No doubt.

We lost Paddy, I'll wait for Ro's response. Campbell is adequate back up and a steady partner. Heath will have to come on in leaps and bounds. With Paddy gone but Marshall unleashed, we still need a real second ruck, forward. We aren't worse. We only need one ruck at a time.

Our midfield hinges on Ross being fit. However, Owens needs to take Ross's spot anyway. Give him a new contract and a rotating forward mid role with Phillipou. They can work with Steele, Crouch, Gresham and Sinclair and are likely to come on quick. By

Its the same list but its better.

Bytel looks fit. That was the aim. He was a liability, albeit a cheap one.

Same player, better shape, in all fairness, when he has played, he hasn't done a lot wrong. Fitness will be the key. He's been training on the same ground as everyone else I imagine, and from all accounts has gone hard all summer.

Caminiti. Hmmm, I want to go early. He makes the list look much better, anyway. Might be our Jack in a box.

Hunter Clark - he certainly looked better against Essendon, was always a ready to go with plenty of upside. Makes the list look better.

Lyon, Harvey and Goddard are coaching the list.

Jones, Mackenzie, Billings and Gresham have given us diddle squat for 2 years.

Dont get me wrong, we need them at their best and they have proven they can do it, but they have hammered our consistency.

Gresham and Jones are dynamic but erratic, Mackenzie and Billings are role players with flashes of brilliance and bravery but it not often enough.

The boys that will superseded them are disciplined. Ross will mould them

In the last 2 years, the list has improved dramatically. Next year, it will improve again.

Even Cordy over the 'Irish Bloke', what was his name, big improvement.

Bytel, Byrnes, Sharman, NVM, Owens, Windhager, Phillipou and Caminiti. With the exception of Byrnes, they can all kick well. They can all run, the talls can mark, they are all big enough, if they are good enough.

Mix Stocker, Campbell, Cordy, Hill and Wood in for some experience and let's just go at it

Webster, Howard, Wilkie
NWM, Battle, Sinclair
Hill Crouch Wood
Phillipou Owens Higgins
Gresham Caminiti Sharman

Marshall Steele Clark

Bytel, Paton, Phillipou, Stocker, Campbell/Cordy

Byrnes, Cordy/Campbell Connolly, Adams

Injured - Membrey, King, Ross, Billings, Jones, Windhager, Coffield, Mackenzie, Hayes Allison, Keeler, McLennan

Developing - Adams, Van Es, Heath, Peris

The list improvement over the last two years, primarily through the draft and supp picks, has changed, the pickd have been good. It's early, but we are going to have to find.

We have 6 players under 21, being considered for selection, that hadnt played AFL 2 years ago.

Week turned over more than half the list in 3 years and have carried, Geary, Billings, Gresham, Mackenzie, Jones and Ryder through injury.

The list is better than the one that beat Geelong last year. Now its all about process, not personnel. Hang on to your hat, it's gonna get hectic but I've got a feeling that 'process' is what we will here about, the rebuilding is almost over.

[CQ SAINT]

If the players buy in to process over personnel and possibilities over probability, then we will finally find out if Lyon could have fast tracked a rebuild back when he left.
Possibility over probability, im buying in for a trial season. Its been announced to the whole league by Lyon himselg, if our kids come through and we can salvage 2 of Mackenzie, Billings, Jones and Coffield, we may just pull one or 2 big fish in the 'process' . We have youth, development and projected earnings, as apposed to cap pressure on our side.

[Scollop]

The original post seems to think that Ross 'needs' to appease the media. I think everyone here (except maybe the op) agrees that he doesn't need to make finals this year.

I reckon with the mounting injury toll, he's got a ripper of an excuse. Any how, even without the injuries there was never a need or expectation or goal to make finals. It's not like Bassat and the board are gunna sack him if we finish bottom 4

Perhaps the op feels like Ross owes Saints fans some joy and reward for giving him a job.

[Teflon]

The original post seems to think that Ross 'needs' to appease the media. I think everyone here (except maybe the op) agrees that he doesn't need to make finals this year.

I reckon with the mounting injury toll, he's got a ripper of an excuse. Any how, even without the injuries there was never a need or expectation or goal to make finals. It's not like Bassat and the board are gunna sack him if we finish bottom 4

Perhaps the op feels like Ross owes Saints fans some joy and reward for giving him a job.

Correct
And suggesting the list is now magically better cause we have 1st year player Phillipou or cause Marshall will ruck in his own ignore our real list issues
That midfield is 1 paced and lacks star quality - when we play top sides (see Melbourne) you will see that
King is our only true talk gun forward - hole there…he doesn’t have a Curnow back up…
We are a Marshall injury away from disaster
And we HOPE Cordy can do something to help out lack of genuine talls down back …
The list has more holes than Swiss cheese
THE thing that makes me angry is we all knew it - we knew it last 2 years under Brett …,but the footy Dept dr used topping up with Hill, Jones, Ryder, Crouch was all the rage cause “we were in the window”
HORSESHYTE
Hawks are showing us how to bottom - yes it’s easier when you have 4 flags this century to tide you over but we were delusional….
As RTB put “this is an exploratory year” they’ve finally realised …,hallelujah!

[B.M]

If our list is that shyte

Ratten must be a great coach to have a 50% record with such crap players

Hope Ross does as well?!

[saynta]

If our list is that shyte

Ratten must be a great coach to have a 50% record with such crap players

Hope Ross does as well?!

No our list isn't s***. Barring injuries to key players and not selling games into monsoon territory, we would have made finals last year. The list was definitely good enough to do that.