What do we need to improve in 2024?

[footynut]

Yesterday we were simply out classed by the Sun's. They had better skills, a better attack on the ball and sadly more desire.

So who can we attach that will make us a better team in 2024?

It's important to keep our first pick, so how do we get an A grade mid and make our forward line function??

[TheGreatZacsby]

We need:

1x Ruck / Forward to assist Marshall = TDK. There’s no real Rucks in this year draft that are a gun, ready made, reside in VIC or will fall to our pick. Best bet just to get TDK or spend the soft cap and develop Moose / Keeler.

1x Key Defender = Mackay or F/R Draft Pick like Connor O’Sullivan (O'Sullivan has played up forward in recent weeks, but arguably his best work comes as a lockdown key defender. He has closing speed on the lead and safe hands in the air which allows him to fly for his marks and get the ball moving the other way quickly. O'Sullivan is no-fuss and ultra-reliable wherever he play)

1x Gun Midfielder = Bailey Smith, Darcy Parish or F/R Draft Pick like Darcy Wilson (Continually impressing with his insatiable work rate and cleanliness under pressure, Wilson is rising in his top-age campaign from a relative unknown last year. The outside midfielder racks up the ball and uses it well, but then charges back defensively for his team and fills holes in defence. He's a true two-way midfielder that has a competitive edge to his game)

[The_Dud]

Mids mids mids and more mids.

AFL is all about the midfield, need more A grade talent in there (and get bloody Steele right!)

[D.B.Cooper]

We need:

1x Ruck / Forward to assist Marshall = TDK. There’s no real Rucks in this year draft that are a gun, ready made, reside in VIC or will fall to our pick. Best bet just to get TDK or spend the soft cap and develop Moose / Keeler.

1x Key Defender = Mackay or F/R Draft Pick like Connor O’Sullivan (O'Sullivan has played up forward in recent weeks, but arguably his best work comes as a lockdown key defender. He has closing speed on the lead and safe hands in the air which allows him to fly for his marks and get the ball moving the other way quickly. O'Sullivan is no-fuss and ultra-reliable wherever he play)

1x Gun Midfielder = Bailey Smith, Darcy Parish or F/R Draft Pick like Darcy Wilson (Continually impressing with his insatiable work rate and cleanliness under pressure, Wilson is rising in his top-age campaign from a relative unknown last year. The outside midfielder racks up the ball and uses it well, but then charges back defensively for his team and fills holes in defence. He's a true two-way midfielder that has a competitive edge to his game)

And what we are likely to get is Paddy Dow and Todd Goldstein.

[Vortex]

talent talent talent...lots of it

[saintbob]

We need the same thing we’ve needed for the last 5yrs, a key defender, a 2nd ruck and 2 x classy outside mids with speed and skill and we need to finally dump/trade the cloggers off our list.

[saintbob]

We need:

1x Ruck / Forward to assist Marshall = TDK. There’s no real Rucks in this year draft that are a gun, ready made, reside in VIC or will fall to our pick. Best bet just to get TDK or spend the soft cap and develop Moose / Keeler.

1x Key Defender = Mackay or F/R Draft Pick like Connor O’Sullivan (O'Sullivan has played up forward in recent weeks, but arguably his best work comes as a lockdown key defender. He has closing speed on the lead and safe hands in the air which allows him to fly for his marks and get the ball moving the other way quickly. O'Sullivan is no-fuss and ultra-reliable wherever he play)

1x Gun Midfielder = Bailey Smith, Darcy Parish or F/R Draft Pick like Darcy Wilson (Continually impressing with his insatiable work rate and cleanliness under pressure, Wilson is rising in his top-age campaign from a relative unknown last year. The outside midfielder racks up the ball and uses it well, but then charges back defensively for his team and fills holes in defence. He's a true two-way midfielder that has a competitive edge to his game)

And what we are likely to get is Paddy Dow and Todd Goldstein.

If this happens, it’ll be the final straw.

[nostalgicsaint]

Elite ball use is would be the top of my list.

Assuming across the draft/FA/Trade period you can bring in four players I'd be after the below.

2 x offensively damaging midfielder - I.e. hits the scoreboard or hits forwards who do

1 x play making hbf who don't turn the ball over

1 x forward ruck.

[nostalgicsaint]

Fwiw if we ended up with goldy replacing Campbell on our list for 1 year I wouldn't have an issue with it. Depth for if Marshall gets injured and a great person for our players to learn from.

[Teflon]

Stav from BF gets some interesting club insights…suggests below Lyon happy to trade some core re-set off youth…knows this core has gone as far as it can:

******

What for?

I name them and people go down a rabbit hole of negative thinking and going on about rebuilds etc.

In short.

Ross wants to get younger. Wants more Size and athleticism. Wants players that are longer kicks.

The core is going to be built around King Nas Higgins Windy Pou etc

The likes of Sinclair and Steele are expected to be apart of it. But they are no longer the designated group the list will be built around. Which is what Ratten and Gallagher were selling to the board.

There is a longer term vision here.

Ross absolutely loves this club. If he finishes his second stint and we don’t make a granny - he won’t give a *, as long as it’s ready to go for one of his assistants to takeover and have a king and substantial crack at it

[Teflon]

More Stav goss:

*******

* it’s been a long day.

We have asked the question on Bailey Smith.

Mowman Joffaboy StCicatriz can all vouch I went earlier than Sam McClure on this.

Whole league is asking however.

We really like Holmes. But I can’t see it happening personally.

TDK should be a saint if the season ends today. Ross thinks he can get a lot more out of him. Rates the key attributes.

Wants a key back. But setting sights lower than McKay Himmelberg now. Latest whisper. Tom Jonas.
Boss wants a legitimate key defensive stopper with height and power.

Gresh is gone IMO. Ross not a huge fan.

Really wanted Bergman. Ross wants players who have height power and can intercept mark.

Wants to find more penetrating kicks.

And if they can’t bring good players in. Just wants to load up for the draft. Happy to play kids.

[cwrcyn]

We have very few players who kick the ball long. Wood, Marshall, Philllipou, and Hill. That's it.

If Ross wants to go young, I'm all for it. We've targeted the wrong players for a decade or more. It's time to get some speed and skill into a stodgy midfield.

[Teflon]

We have very few players who kick the ball long. Wood, Marshall, Philllipou, and Hill. That's it.

If Ross wants to go young, I'm all for it. We've targeted the wrong players for a decade or more. It's time to get some speed and skill into a stodgy midfield.

Correct
Last 2 coaches didn’t have the balls
Hope Lyon does go young
Even IF we go backwards next year to go forward long term
I’m ok with it
Enough pretending, overrated players

[meher baba]

Despite the delight some posters on here display re the question of who might be delisted at the end of the year, there's pretty much nobody anyone would seriously want to trade who would give us any sort of worthwhile reward.

We'd get something for Howard, but I'm not sure that we could hope to snare a player any better than him. Others whom many other posters would like to trade - Billings, Gresham (who's a free agent anyway), Ross, Jones, perhaps Membrey and Butler - won't bring us anything much back: indeed, some of them might require us to pay another club to take them off our hands. And there's going to be no return for players like Bytel, McKenzie or Highmore.

Who have we got that other clubs would be seriously interested in? Wilkie, Battle, NWM, Owens, King, Steele, Marshall, perhaps Windhager and the Pou? Shall we get Pelchen back to trade out some of these guys for us? Trading/driving out good players who would have been happy to stay to other clubs has worked out very well in the past...for them. Ball, Stanley, McEvoy all really cherish their premiership medallions, I'm sure.

If Lyon seriously wants to embark upon a rebuilding strategy, he's going to have to find a way of doing it with limited draft picks and even more limited trade options. Good luck with that.

I reckon the best option is to keep going with the players we've got. We''re not light years away from the top four in terms of ability, and young players like Owens, Pou and Caminiti are only going to improve. De Goey was a good option, but we didn't get him. Bergman was a so-so idea but we didn't get him either. Who else is on the horizon that is going to make a huge difference? I can't see any.

[Teflon]

Despite the delight some posters on here display re the question of who might be delisted at the end of the year, there's pretty much nobody anyone would seriously want to trade who would give us any sort of worthwhile reward.

We'd get something for Howard, but I'm not sure that we could hope to snare a player any better than him. Others whom many other posters would like to trade - Billings, Gresham (who's a free agent anyway), Ross, Jones, perhaps Membrey and Butler - won't bring us anything much back: indeed, some of them might require us to pay another club to take them off our hands. And there's going to be no return for players like Bytel, McKenzie or Highmore.

Who have we got that other clubs would be seriously interested in? Wilkie, Battle, NWM, Owens, King, Steele, Marshall, perhaps Windhager and the Pou? Shall we get Pelchen back to trade out some of these guys for us? Trading good players who would have been happy to stay to other clubs has worked out very well in the past...for them. Ball, Stanley, McEvoy all really cherish their premiership medallions, I'm sure.

If Lyon seriously wants to embark upon a rebuilding strategy, he's going to have to find a way of doing it with limited draft picks and even more limited trade options. Good luck with that.

I reckon the best option is to keep going with the players we've got. We''re not light years away from the top four in terms of ability, and young players like Owens, Pou and Caminiti are only going to improve. De Goey was a good option, but we didn't get him. Bergman was a so-so idea but we didn't get him either. Who else is on the horizon that is going to make a huge difference? I can't see any.

Lyon already knows Pou Caminiti Owens NAS Windy King are the core you build around
Facts are our “core” 28+ doesn’t have a lot of star power
Only way you fix that is drafting
It’s not a question of wanting to rebuild ….the list profile of a meh core…….BIG GAP and some maybe promising kids means that decisions taken out off your hands
Facts are we took shortcuts with other club rejects under Ratten and Gallagher on Hill Crouch Ryder Butler Howard Higgins and most of those haven’t paid off (in their day all good…that’s not good enough to get you to too 4)
Facts are we previously (and the Board gobbled it up) grossly overestimated this list - rubbish talk that we were “in the window” was embarrassing
St Kilda took short cuts - has never taken the deep drink from draft to amass talent it needed to. 01-4 last time we did it and built a successful side for 7/8 years
Board knows it and Lyon knows this list can’t get there…his audio leak confirmed that in practice
He now needs to get in with it
We are 2-3 years away in my view

[cwrcyn]

Pelchen and Elshaug put us in a terrible situation. Lethlean decided to err on the side of caution by bolstering the middle of the pack so we wouldn't become a 5 year cellar dweller. The fear of 8 years of crap turning into another 5 years of even more crap. I get why he did it. If Pelchen and Elshaug hadn't totally screwed us, Lelthlean wouldn't have done what he did.

It's like the old lady who swallowed the fly. Under Pelchen and Elshaug the club swallowed a fly. Lethlean then sent the spider in to catch the fly. The key now is to not swallow the bird and then the cat.

Ross Lyon is now identifying where we're actually at.

We have set the ball rolling in the right direction with the drafting of Heath, Wanganeen-Milera, Owens, Windhager, Phillipou, Caminiti, Hotton, and Keeler. I think we just keep following much the same path, and if we can snag a high speed midfielder from another club, I'd be happy with that. And it has to be a genuine midfielder, not a wingman.

I suspect Gresham will be elsewhere next year. The problem is we'll likely only get a second round free agency compensation pick from the AFL (somewhere between pick 23 and 27 you'd think).

As far as trade currency, let's face it, there's almost none

I think Campbell, Connolly, Adams, and Highmore will get the chop. Bytel is at risk, too. I suspect the coach is not a fan. Lyon is apparently looking for speed, and that's Bytel's main weakness.

That would make 6 changes with Gresham's departure.

I can't see us cutting deeper than that, otherwise there'll be almost no one to move out the following year.

[Teflon]

I reckon he’ll move a favourite son on …he’s not sentimental
If it gives better access to talent…
You’re right cut too deep we’ll be in basket case land but it will be more than Gresham on the table…for the right price
Got to build a midfield

[cwrcyn]

If we miss the 8, I'd rather we finish 15th. There's nothing to gain by finishing 9th at this point. Funnily enough, it's possible from a form and mathematical perspective, and wouldn't suppose me one bit

[B.M]

Can’t go to the draft and bring players in

Those players cost draft capital

[meher baba]

I reckon he’ll move a favourite son on …he’s not sentimental
If it gives better access to talent…
You’re right cut too deep we’ll be in basket case land but it will be more than Gresham on the table…for the right price
Got to build a midfield

If you mean Steele, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Crazy IMO, but Lyon has made noises that suggest that he's not Steele's #1 fan.

[saynta]

We need:

1x Ruck / Forward to assist Marshall = TDK. There’s no real Rucks in this year draft that are a gun, ready made, reside in VIC or will fall to our pick. Best bet just to get TDK or spend the soft cap and develop Moose / Keeler.

1x Key Defender = Mackay or F/R Draft Pick like Connor O’Sullivan (O'Sullivan has played up forward in recent weeks, but arguably his best work comes as a lockdown key defender. He has closing speed on the lead and safe hands in the air which allows him to fly for his marks and get the ball moving the other way quickly. O'Sullivan is no-fuss and ultra-reliable wherever he play)

1x Gun Midfielder = Bailey Smith, Darcy Parish or F/R Draft Pick like Darcy Wilson (Continually impressing with his insatiable work rate and cleanliness under pressure, Wilson is rising in his top-age campaign from a relative unknown last year. The outside midfielder racks up the ball and uses it well, but then charges back defensively for his team and fills holes in defence. He's a true two-way midfielder that has a competitive edge to his game)

And what we are likely to get is Paddy Dow and Todd Goldstein.

[saynta]

Despite the delight some posters on here display re the question of who might be delisted at the end of the year, there's pretty much nobody anyone would seriously want to trade who would give us any sort of worthwhile reward.

We'd get something for Howard, but I'm not sure that we could hope to snare a player any better than him. Others whom many other posters would like to trade - Billings, Gresham (who's a free agent anyway), Ross, Jones, perhaps Membrey and Butler - won't bring us anything much back: indeed, some of them might require us to pay another club to take them off our hands. And there's going to be no return for players like Bytel, McKenzie or Highmore.

Who have we got that other clubs would be seriously interested in? Wilkie, Battle, NWM, Owens, King, Steele, Marshall, perhaps Windhager and the Pou? Shall we get Pelchen back to trade out some of these guys for us? Trading/driving out good players who would have been happy to stay to other clubs has worked out very well in the past...for them. Ball, Stanley, McEvoy all really cherish their premiership medallions, I'm sure.

If Lyon seriously wants to embark upon a rebuilding strategy, he's going to have to find a way of doing it with limited draft picks and even more limited trade options. Good luck with that.

I reckon the best option is to keep going with the players we've got. We''re not light years away from the top four in terms of ability, and young players like Owens, Pou and Caminiti are only going to improve. De Goey was a good option, but we didn't get him. Bergman was a so-so idea but we didn't get him either. Who else is on the horizon that is going to make a huge difference? I can't see any.

Good realistic post. thanks.

[Teflon]

I reckon he’ll move a favourite son on …he’s not sentimental
If it gives better access to talent…
You’re right cut too deep we’ll be in basket case land but it will be more than Gresham on the table…for the right price
Got to build a midfield

If you mean Steele, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Crazy IMO, but Lyon has made noises that suggest that he's not Steele's #1 fan.

No not Steele
Though he won’t be captain
Ratten had to speak to him previously about sooking it up
I’d make Wilkie captain
Let Steele play footy
What’s worse is …..no signature yet for H Clarke …sadly I rate him

[SinCitySainter]

We simply are not a big enough draw card to trade for top end talent we can only get it through the draft.
If we want to improve and Ross is serious and not just on a nice pay day then harsh decisions need to be made.
The problem is the players that we would be reasonably OK with leaving won't get us much.
There is zero to very mediocre currency in Gresham, Ross, Battle, Membrey etc...
The young guns like NWM, Owens, King, Pou and Windy should be untouchable.
So, if we want first rounders it will require Steele, Wilkie, Sinclair or Marshall to be on the table as a challenging side will see the value in them for a push.
We are in no man's land we either have to cut like there is no tomorrow and hope that the draft is good, not assured for any club, or accept we are mid-table and embrace it.
I guess this is where we find out if Ross is capable of building a list, something he has never done in the past.

[Vortex]

talent talent talent