Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055642Post samuraisaint »

bigcarl wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 12:26pm Early Tackle: Bont disaster which could cost Dogs dearly

SCOTT GULLAN, heraldsun.com.au

YOU SPIN SOME, YOU LOSE SOME
Ross Lyon is a genius, that’s the reputation he holds in the football world and it seems like his time in the Triple M commentary box has served him well.

His openness when he has a microphone in front of him now is compelling and has commentators all warm and fuzzy given his honesty and the way he talks about the game.

As a result of being so open and honest, it’s human nature to then be more reticent to not go as hard with criticism as you might with someone else (ie Luke Beveridge).

Lyon’s spin is that he’s running a dual narrative, getting games into the kids while trying to maintain a side capable of playing finals like the Saints did in his first season last year.

Right now, that plan isn’t working. Yes, you can hide behind some close finishes and as many stats as you like but the Saints look a lot more like a battling August side than an aspiring September outfit.

The playing-the-kids mantra is admirable although a couple of them, namely Mattaes Phillipou and Mitch Owens, have hit a rough patch while Max King, who didn’t play against the Power, is still yet to really announce himself as a force.

Then when you put the microscope to the rest of it, there are holes everywhere. The midfield can look pedestrian at times with captain Jack Steele, Seb Ross and the new face in there, Marcus Windhager, unlikely to win the Stawell Gift any time soon.

Take Rowan Marshall out of the equation and the big man stocks are light-on. Zaine Cordy and Josh Battle try hard, Dougal Howard has been a bust while at the other end Tim Membrey is struggling, Anthony Caminiti is hot and cold and Cooper Sharman is an honest battler.

We’ll know a lot more about St Kilda over the next month or so with some very winnable games – (North Melbourne at Marvel, Hawthorn in Tassie, Fremantle at Marvel, Melbourne at MCG and West Coast in Perth) – in the schedule.

After that, what is Ross spin and what are facts will be a lot clearer.
Yeah, good one Scott - some of those close finishes include Geelong at Geelong, Port Adelaide in Adelaide and the Giants in Canberra - and we've been playing with as many as 8 players under 21 years old in the lineup most, if not ALL, of our matches so far this season.

It might be due to necessity rather than innovation, but our injuries and suspensions have meant that we are playing guys who have played under 7 games against some very tidy opposition, and usually coming away with pride intact, if not the four points.

For me, a mini season block starts from next week. The expectation must be that we must win four of those five matches. No excuses. They are all teams we are expected to beat (except Melbourne).


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055649Post SaintPav »

I’ll take 6 6 after round 12, if we’re lucky.

Hopefully we can reset after the bye in round 19 or whenever that is. Thank you, AFL.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055650Post bobmurray »

Not a bad article really, summed up the Saints style and deficiencies pretty well.

It's not really the 10 year old author's job to provide the solution, that's for the blokes getting the big bucks.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055651Post Yorkeys »

So what's the def of boring? Clearly not close exciting finishes according to Scotty boy (who is he?).
Ross must have embarrassed him in public.
Who starts a newspaper story with a snide insult, amateur vindictiveness. Ross has a distinguished record, what's Scott got: a certificate in creative writing from a correspondence school in Dehli. Honours in higher level coaching analysis from James Brayshaw day care and spa?
Guy seems to be arguing Hawks and even North, for goodness sake, are more exciting to watch.
Guy is not destined for a distinguished career.
I imagine by his own implicit definition Scotty could do a follow up on how exciting the Lions are.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055666Post Sanctorum »

Yorkeys wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 3:20pm So what's the def of boring? Clearly not close exciting finishes according to Scotty boy (who is he?).
Ross must have embarrassed him in public.
Who starts a newspaper story with a snide insult, amateur vindictiveness. Ross has a distinguished record, what's Scott got: a certificate in creative writing from a correspondence school in Dehli. Honours in higher level coaching analysis from James Brayshaw day care and spa?
Guy seems to be arguing Hawks and even North, for goodness sake, are more exciting to watch.
Guy is not destined for a distinguished career.
I imagine by his own implicit definition Scotty could do a follow up on how exciting the Lions are.
My take on this article by Scott Gullan in the Herald Sun is that he's having a crack at the paper's senior AFL reporter Mark Robinson who has been won over by Lyon and written somevery positive columns about St Kilda and their coach :lol: :lol:


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055667Post bobmurray »

Wasn't it Gullan who used to have a gossip column in the back pages of the Herald Sun, got a tip was his plea.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055669Post Sanctorum »

Teflon wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 1:00am The losses by small margins masks the issues - we struggle to score
I like Harvey but don’t think he’s a forward coach
I watched fumbles, overrun the ball, dropped chest marks last night….thats not game plan
Seb Ross 9 possessions at HT ….thats not game plan
Smashed in tackles ….not game plan
Hill (culprit again) turning it over in D50, Bonner too then Howard decided to hand ball over his head to no one????
None of that is game plan - that’s just sub standard, dumb footballers
Be good to get Tim Membrey back in the side so he can show up to a contest and bring the ball to ground……oh wait!
Exactly right. As I've posted in another thread the difference this year compared to last when the club also started with a long injury list is that the players are just not playing good football, it's as simple as that!

I also am perplexed why Robert Harvey is the forward line coach - in fact why is he coaching at all because despite his magnificent talents playing footy, he has never shown signs of strong leadership qualities and I doubt he inspires players to go out in battle willing to put their lives on the line for him! (OK, OK...so I'm shooting Bambi! :lol:)

On Lyon as coach, I recall that one of the strongest criticisms by the anti-RTB faction is that in his previous 2 gigs he had a total disregard for playing the young blokes - well, he certainly is doing that now!!


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055707Post samuraisaint »

SaintPav wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 3:17pm I’ll take 6 6 after round 12, if we’re lucky.

Hopefully we can reset after the bye in round 19 or whenever that is. Thank you, AFL.
+ 1.

Several of the teams we are playing in the next 6 weeks lost heavily today. All beatable.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055710Post Teflon »

A pretty unbalanced article that doesn’t go anywhere near our injury challenges - true, many sides have them, but I’d argue a Carlton cover their gaps a lot easier than us.
It’s interesting- Lyons team burst out of the blocks last year and we’re being lauded for fast, attacking footy with many saying “he’s evolved!!”
Now we are supposedly dour, boring ….must admit when we went quickly late against Port and GWS we looked good at times …so I’m left wondering : Is Ross using a defensive game plan to stop the blowouts till the injury cavalry arrive…..OR has he just reverted to type?
He says they want to kick more goals and we simply have to if we are to compete….but that forward connection still looks clunky …..how hard do we scrape, scratch and fight to get a goal ?? Only to watch a Port or GWS hut lead up players time and again on short hit ups?? Can we not do this ?? Must we bomb always ?
The article is shyte but got 1 thing right - IF we manage to get our core team on the park , together for more than 1 minute and still only score 10 goals …we are in strife.
I don’t think we will.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055718Post The Fireman »

I stopped taking notice of sports journos years ago

Think about it , how do they maintain their employment? They have to churn something out and they can make it up on the spot and it’s even better if it’s controversial.
Actually, most conversation on here is more informative if you wade through it, and of course some on here is ridiculous and repetitive One poster in particular and no, not curly 😉

Don’t get your knickers in a knot over the crap that they churn out


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055721Post MC Gusto »

This slump is good for us

Test of the clubs mettle. Back in Lyon and stay the course or do a st Kilda
Blood the kids or bring in the ageing b graders (generous I know )
Panic or remain calm, back the strategy and continue to refine the game plan

I predict we have a far stronger 2nd half to the season and whilst I doubt we make the 8, we have the green shoots required for 25 and beat the likes of the bombers and dogs second time round (if we play them)

Mind you I might be of a different opinion 4 goals down to north in the last


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055725Post Otiman »

MC Gusto wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 9:13pm
Mind you I might be of a different opinion 4 goals down to north in the last
Our last few games against North have been a symptom of the overall issue.

We can't/don't/won't turn it on and damage the scoreboard when we are on top.

Plenty of games against poor opposition, we have let them in and almost lost (or lost).

Kangaroos won 64-34
Kangaroos (2) won 69-61
Eagles won 85-77
Hawthorn lost 78-88
Hawthorn won 122-93

Only 2 games in Ross's time we've scored above 100 points
Hawthorn 2023 and Gold Coast 2023


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055726Post Teflon »

Sanctorum wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 5:45pm
Teflon wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 1:00am The losses by small margins masks the issues - we struggle to score
I like Harvey but don’t think he’s a forward coach
I watched fumbles, overrun the ball, dropped chest marks last night….thats not game plan
Seb Ross 9 possessions at HT ….thats not game plan
Smashed in tackles ….not game plan
Hill (culprit again) turning it over in D50, Bonner too then Howard decided to hand ball over his head to no one????
None of that is game plan - that’s just sub standard, dumb footballers
Be good to get Tim Membrey back in the side so he can show up to a contest and bring the ball to ground……oh wait!
Exactly right. As I've posted in another thread the difference this year compared to last when the club also started with a long injury list is that the players are just not playing good football, it's as simple as that!

I also am perplexed why Robert Harvey is the forward line coach - in fact why is he coaching at all because despite his magnificent talents playing footy, he has never shown signs of strong leadership qualities and I doubt he inspires players to go out in battle willing to put their lives on the line for him! (OK, OK...so I'm shooting Bambi! :lol:)

On Lyon as coach, I recall that one of the strongest criticisms by the anti-RTB faction is that in his previous 2 gigs he had a total disregard for playing the young blokes - well, he certainly is doing that now!!
No question Lyon is at least playing kids
That tells us he doesn’t believe our older core are the foundations for a flag - he’s gonna have to build it and that’s hard from 9-12 …..with our first thanks to FS/Academy/Nth feeebies mid 20’s …


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055737Post B.M »

Who from the older core

Is not getting a game?

Zak Jones - Ross doesn’t rate him

Any others?

Is he playing kids over older players?

I don’t thinks so, or he would’ve played Schoenmaker instead of an underdone Howard - who was atrocious


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055740Post Teflon »

B.M wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 10:43pm Who from the older core

Is not getting a game?

Zak Jones - Ross doesn’t rate him

Any others?

Is he playing kids over older players?

I don’t thinks so, or he would’ve played Schoenmaker instead of an underdone Howard - who was atrocious
Once again…Martin reads a post and only what HE wants to read and asks a completely irrelevant question
It’s not who from our core isn’t getting a game…
It’s who from our older core ain’t in our Premiership
Shall we list them ?? Do keep up

Seb Ross (I know, I know you have his BnF poster but he’s not it)
Dougal Howard
Zac Jones
Brad Crouch
Dan Butler
Brad Hill
Mason Wood (sadly but will be into 30s)
Zaine Cordy
Riley Bonner - fringe
Jimmy Webster

Who I hope can limp in and still play good footy

Cal Wilkie
Jack Steel
Jack Sinclair

Comprende’?

Oh and don’t be dumb
Shoenmakers is fighting for Battles spot ….hes not a FB competing with Howard….not even close to like for like ..
geezus you’re meant to be some kind of footy guru??


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055741Post Brunswicksainter »

SaintPav wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 3:17pm I’ll take 6 6 after round 12, if we’re lucky.

Hopefully we can reset after the bye in round 19 or whenever that is. Thank you, AFL.
That would mean we’d win 4 of our next 5. If we do that we’re a lock for finals I would’ve thought.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055746Post Teflon »

Brunswicksainter wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 10:59pm
SaintPav wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 3:17pm I’ll take 6 6 after round 12, if we’re lucky.

Hopefully we can reset after the bye in round 19 or whenever that is. Thank you, AFL.
That would mean we’d win 4 of our next 5. If we do that we’re a lock for finals I would’ve thought.
Here’s the REAL question….one I’ve asked last year…
Is that REALLY in our best interests??
Top 10 draft kids are mids …sone very good ones…
Torn.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055798Post B.M »

Cordy to FB

Schoenmaker to the outside

The obvious move right?


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055799Post Otiman »

B.M wrote: Mon 29 Apr 2024 8:34am Cordy to FB

Schoenmaker to the outside

The obvious move right?
It'll destroy Wilkie (see his first 6 games). But we may get an even better one in Schoenmaker.


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055845Post B.M »

Can’t have 4 talls in the backline

Battle 193
Wilkie 191
Cordy 195
Howard 199

It means we lose bounce and slingshot from d50 and it’s the reason for the slow ball movement and poor use last week


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Re: Footy Fix: Ross Lyon is the AFL's most boring coach once again - and it's suffocating the Saints' season

Post: # 2055894Post Brunswicksainter »

Teflon wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 11:19pm
Brunswicksainter wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 10:59pm
SaintPav wrote: Sun 28 Apr 2024 3:17pm I’ll take 6 6 after round 12, if we’re lucky.

Hopefully we can reset after the bye in round 19 or whenever that is. Thank you, AFL.
That would mean we’d win 4 of our next 5. If we do that we’re a lock for finals I would’ve thought.
Here’s the REAL question….one I’ve asked last year…
Is that REALLY in our best interests??
Top 10 draft kids are mids …sone very good ones…
Torn.
There is a very strong negative correlation between number of top 10 picks accrued and delayed (5-10 year) premiership success. I think there is mountains of evidence to suggest amassing high end picks is a losing strategy long term, I also think we now have a young core of high end talent that rivals any in league. I would be very hopeful that we trade our first pick this year and also look to get heavily involved in free agency following the model of Richmond, hawthorn and Geelong of years past. So I think making finals would be a great outcome, I also do not buy into the media narrative that finishing mid table for a few years is a bad outcome.


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