What's the Big Deal?

[rodgerfox]

Turmoil.

Messy.

Infighting.

Bloody coup.

Implosion.


These are the words being used to describe what is happening at our club right now.

If you picked up the paper or read Saintsational, you'd think we were doomed. Board the joint up and give up.

But what's the big deal? Why is everyone so excited or freaked by this?

It's been 7 years since this Board took over. And funnily enough, all the morons out there bagging us for our 'culture' and our ability to implode are saying 'see, I told you you'd implode'.

7 years FFS!!!!

Essendon are in 'turmoil'. Carlton have been for 5 years. North had Board spills last year. Hawthorn only 2 years ago. Richmond not long ago either. The list goes on.

Then there is player 'issues'.

We haven't had an issue in this area for a long time. Compare that to West Coast, Collingwood, Geelong and many others and you'll find that we're incredibly stable.

And isn't that what matters? The players?

Just to add to that, we don't have debt. Haven't gone to the AFL for assistance, ever. And will get close to 35k members next year.

Implosion? Turmoil? Culture?

I tell you what, if this is the new St.Kilda culture, then sign me up!

We have a professional group challenging another professional group. They waited until the season finished, and timed it when 3 other Victorian clubs are still in the race.

Perfect timing.

Most of our own players aren't even in the country.

We've signed key players, and with any luck will get a couple of others. We have a new coach who's now had a season to look at his list.

We also have several player who will actually get a pre-season this year!!


The current Board saved the club. I applaud them for it. The methods used to wipe the debt were correct at the time. However, over the past 24 months I think they were outdated.

This Board is being challenged.

Big fricken deal! How long do people expect the current Board to be in for?? For ever??!!

I genuinely don't see what the issue is here.

People get so sucked in by Caroline Wilson and her obsession with off-field politics, and Patrick Smith with his...well....I don't even know what he writes about or why. And Hutchy.

People forget that these people are paid to make headlines. Wilson said on 'Footy Classified' the other night that she has immense pressure put on to her to make headlines. So she does.

They have made what in reality is a very, very professional and mature challenge to a Board - into some sort of nightmare.

I can understand other supporters getting sucked in by it - because they want to. They want to believe we aren't a threat. It worries them knowing that we still have the best spine in the league. A crack midfield under 24yo who actually will get a pre-season this year, and a list that has had a full season under a new coach.

But why do we get sucked in by it?

I'll tell you why.

Two reasons.

1) Because those lauding the sacking of Thomas supported the Board in their decision. And as is the way on here, once you make an alliance, you fight tooth and nail to defend it.
So, those defending the Board back then, continue to do so now.

2) St.Kilda supporters want to believe we aren't a threat either. It's much easier to be the hunter, then it is the hunted.
Much easier to hide in the group and not wear the pressure of expectation.


Well, I've got news for you. I've got news for our own supporters. I've got news for Smith, Wilson and Hutchison. And I've got news for rival club's supporters - we are a threat.

We will be for a long time.

We don't implode. Not anymore.

This is no big deal. This is a fix for an issue that in the past would have led our club to an implosion.

But not anymore.

[Animal Enclosure]

One of the best posts this site has ever seen. Well done & thanks

[Solar]

you know what, that makes complete and utter sense.

I have tried to keep out of the board arguments because it just gets personal and messy.

I think we are lucky that the challenge has bought together a talented professional group who want the best for the club. No spills are ever perfect, especially when the vurrent board believes they are still the right ones to continue on.

A couple of thoughts from me.

1. FF seem to be aggressive because they want to get enough votes to change the board before the AGM. If the supporters do want this change then it happening earlier then later is a positive. Short term pain, long term gain.

2. Most supporters seem to be looking at what both are bringing to the table and voting. The whole messiah crap is just that, crap.

3. This board has done a great job and we thank them for getting us into the black and building us to this point. No one can deny that overall they did a great job.

7 years is a very long time. Most AFL coaches don't last that long.

I just hope that when the dust settles the board that is successful has the full support of the members and club as a whole. If so we have such a big upside!

[Saint 58]

This is no big deal. This is a fix for an issue that in the past would have led our club to an implosion.

But not anymore.

That's correct as long as it stays as a "clean fight", which it has so far. The Club has issues which FF are trying to address.

[fingers]

Rodger - get that balanced nonsense off this site - it has no place here

Good post.

[joffaboy]

Thats right anoter "fix" for the club permanently in turmoil and always infighting.

[rodgerfox]

Thats right anoter "fix" for the club permanently in turmoil and always infighting.

Permanently?

Been on another planet for the last 7 years have you?

Don't let facts get in the way of your own defeatist mentality.

[saint patrick]

Turmoil.

Messy.

Infighting.

Bloody coup.

Implosion.


These are the words being used to describe what is happening at our club right now.

If you picked up the paper or read Saintsational, you'd think we were doomed. Board the joint up and give up.

But what's the big deal? Why is everyone so excited or freaked by this?

It's been 7 years since this Board took over. And funnily enough, all the morons out there bagging us for our 'culture' and our ability to implode are saying 'see, I told you you'd implode'.

7 years FFS!!!!

Essendon are in 'turmoil'. Carlton have been for 5 years. North had Board spills last year. Hawthorn only 2 years ago. Richmond not long ago either. The list goes on.

Then there is player 'issues'.

We haven't had an issue in this area for a long time. Compare that to West Coast, Collingwood, Geelong and many others and you'll find that we're incredibly stable.

And isn't that what matters? The players?

Just to add to that, we don't have debt. Haven't gone to the AFL for assistance, ever. And will get close to 35k members next year.

Implosion? Turmoil? Culture?

I tell you what, if this is the new St.Kilda culture, then sign me up!

We have a professional group challenging another professional group. They waited until the season finished, and timed it when 3 other Victorian clubs are still in the race.

Perfect timing.

Most of our own players aren't even in the country.

We've signed key players, and with any luck will get a couple of others. We have a new coach who's now had a season to look at his list.

We also have several player who will actually get a pre-season this year!!


The current Board saved the club. I applaud them for it. The methods used to wipe the debt were correct at the time. However, over the past 24 months I think they were outdated.

This Board is being challenged.

Big fricken deal! How long do people expect the current Board to be in for?? For ever??!!

I genuinely don't see what the issue is here.

People get so sucked in by Caroline Wilson and her obsession with off-field politics, and Patrick Smith with his...well....I don't even know what he writes about or why. And Hutchy.

People forget that these people are paid to make headlines. Wilson said on 'Footy Classified' the other night that she has immense pressure put on to her to make headlines. So she does.

They have made what in reality is a very, very professional and mature challenge to a Board - into some sort of nightmare.

I can understand other supporters getting sucked in by it - because they want to. They want to believe we aren't a threat. It worries them knowing that we still have the best spine in the league. A crack midfield under 24yo who actually will get a pre-season this year, and a list that has had a full season under a new coach.

But why do we get sucked in by it?

I'll tell you why.

Two reasons.

1) Because those lauding the sacking of Thomas supported the Board in their decision. And as is the way on here, once you make an alliance, you fight tooth and nail to defend it.
So, those defending the Board back then, continue to do so now.

2) St.Kilda supporters want to believe we aren't a threat either. It's much easier to be the hunter, then it is the hunted.
Much easier to hide in the group and not wear the pressure of expectation.


Well, I've got news for you. I've got news for our own supporters. I've got news for Smith, Wilson and Hutchison. And I've got news for rival club's supporters - we are a threat.

We will be for a long time.

We don't implode. Not anymore.

This is no big deal. This is a fix for an issue that in the past would have led our club to an implosion.

But not anymore.

Excellent ,inciteful post and 100% on the money.

good stuff RF

[buzfromgronggrong]

That is quite simply the best post I have ever read on this forum.

Mate sometimes i read ur posts and put u down as some kind of nutjob like meself - and then this...???

Brilliant work!!

[True Blue Sainter]

Your best post ever without a doubt Rodger! You talk perfect sense and logic here. Very balanced and broad perspective that gives a good insight into how we REALLY are doing.

[joffaboy]

Don't let facts get in the way of your own defeatist mentality.

Insulting me doesn't change the fact that this club eats its own.

You attempt to belittle by saying I have been sucked in by the media and now I have a defeatist mentality

Called it the Nuremburg Rallies last week. Now it is the fall of the Third Reich .

As the realists in the Nazis knew the war was lost, they were all called defeatist.

thats right RogerFox, keep the insult flying toward anyone who doesn't agree with your new world order.

[rodgerfox]

thats right RogerFox, keep the insult flying toward anyone who doesn't agree with your new world order.

I apologise if you feel insulted.

That's not my intent.

There is no new world order.

Look, perhaps I'm being naive, but I just don't see how what has happened at our club over the past 20 years is much different to most other clubs.

I genuinely don't see what the big deal is with the way things are going right now.

I actually think we're handling it incredibly well so far.

[joffaboy]

thats right RogerFox, keep the insult flying toward anyone who doesn't agree with your new world order.

I apologise if you feel insulted.

That's not my intent.

There is no new world order.

Look, perhaps I'm being naive, but I just don't see how what has happened at our club over the past 20 years is much different to most other clubs.

I genuinely don't see what the big deal is with the way things are going right now.

I actually think we're handling it incredibly well so far.

Well stop with the personal stuff RogerFox.

You are entitled to your opinion and have made some excellent points during this debat, which i have and always will acknowledge.

However in three posts you directly insulted me because you dont agree with my opinion.

This is not how the forum works nowdays.

Now back OT. We are in absolute turmoil and eating our own.

You say it is no different to other clubs over the past twenty years.

please name one board that was being challenged other than ours that has retired 3.7 mill in debt and has had four consecutive mill dollar profits?

This is absolutely ludicrious especially when the FFS wont release their financial plans after attacking the incumbants on finance

No wonder we are the laughing stock of the league.

i remember sitting behind Mark Harvey in 2000 at the Western Oval for the Saints first intra club match under Blight with Hamill and Gehrig playing. Under his breath he derisively murmoured "the new look Saints hey?" and then chuckled.

16 games later we were again in crisis. Then the dream team of Butters and Thomas dodgied the selection process to get Thommo into the job. The new messiahs were born.

Then a messiah sacked the other messiahs, and the flock was split. Now the flock want to take vengance on the remaining messiah throwing down on his head fire and brimstone in the form of the new messiahs headed by Nathan Burke with Westaway skulking about in the background.

When there is an alternate view to the baying mob of new messiah fans, they are called gullible, and it is all rubbish etc, purely designed to silence and deflect any critisism of the Westaway push as apparently they are immune to critisism.

When Westaway and the new ticket (not if - it is a fait accompli with the messiah worshippers in this club) is elected, he will be held to the same critisism as the current admin has been subjected to over the past year.

I am amazed how some tried to defend Westaways indefensible inference to drug taking directors as reasonable if Butters had of said that he would have been howled down as the worst of the worst.

Double standard and mob mentality rule at present.

[meher baba]

Following rodgerfox's line of reasoning: it is to state the beeding obvious to point out that successful board challenges at any club (or private business) only happen when members (or shareholders) are divided in their views on performance. Hence, the turmoil within the club prompts the board challenge, not vice versa.

If we were playing finals, the membership numbers were continuing to rise, and the deal re Moorabbin had come off, the challenge mounted by Westaway and Co would look as stupid as Steve Bedwell's a few months ago.

If you don't think there should be board challenges in an organisation because the associated turmoil leads to bad press, then the only way controlling cliques would ever be moved on from organisations would be if they chose to step down, or if an external investigation (by the AFL, or ASIC or whoever) determines that they should be charged with some sort of criminal activity.

[saintsRrising]

The World must have ended....I agree with an OP from Rodgerfox

[rodgerfox]

However in three posts you directly insulted me because you dont agree with my opinion.

Not true. I've insulted your posts.

Now back OT. We are in absolute turmoil and eating our own.

We are 'eating our own'. My point is that there is nothing wrong with doing this - at this time in history and at this time of the year.

When would be a better time to do it?

Why is a challenge considered to be so turmultuous? Why is it considered to be the end of the world?

You say it is no different to other clubs over the past twenty years.

please name one board that was being challenged other than ours that has retired 3.7 mill in debt and has had four consecutive mill dollar profits?

That's irrelevant.

Totally irrelevant. Nathan Burke was nearly best on ground in his last game - should he have kept going?

Nassar Hussain made a tonne in his last test - doesn't mean everything was rosy.

Sometimes the results can mask what it actually going on.

This is absolutely ludicrious especially when the FFS wont release their financial plans after attacking the incumbants on finance

No wonder we are the laughing stock of the league.

We're the laughing stock no matter what happens. Even when we were making millions and top of the ladder, the league would laugh at us.

The question is - why are you bothered by it? You believe it. You shouldn't. You shouldn't even care.

You're accepting the negative spin. Jumping at shadows. These shadows will exist, as a Saints supporter for eternity.

Who cares?? Not I.

It almost sounds like you're relieved to accept that we're no good.

It's the typical old St.Kilda mentality.

[n1ck]

RF's best thread ever, not just the OP, but every post since.

[buzfromgronggrong]

Roger you are so bang on the money here it aint funny.

Who is laughing at us? - caro? smith? big friggin deal.

this obsession to be accepted by the "football world propper" makes me sick.

Roger is dead right - they laugh at us even when we're top.

who give a rats?

lets see who is laughing next year when we blitz our way through the season.

imploding - eating our own - what a friggin joke!

good onya Rog!

[yipper]

That's a pretty accurate summation RF - Joffa?, I reckon you're wrong on this. I think there has been a massive overreaction to our situation. Spot on RF - very well put.

[Richter]

I am another person who finds himself right royally amazed to be in full agreement with you RF. You have made sense throughout the whole of this and reading your stuff is a real pleasure these days.

As for insults, I think you need to grow a bit of a thicker hide jb - paradoxical when you so hastily have labelled GW an "incompetent gorilla".

[evertonfc]

RF's best thread ever, not just the OP, but every post since.

Absolutely correct.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Interesting to see who's reading the situation well and who's missing the key points.

[Oh When the Saints]

Praise RF day!

FWIW, I agree too ...

[Saints Premiers 2008]

spot on rf

[rexy]

Sensational post Rog, as you say the timing is right and the challenge is being handled in a professional manner. If the SFF ticket gets up then it will because the majority of the stake holders think it is time for a change which is how it should be.

[Gabba]

excellent post, quite an enjoyable read. Raised my spirits.

However this :

1) Because those lauding the sacking of Thomas supported the Board in their decision. And as is the way on here, once you make an alliance, you fight tooth and nail to defend it.
So, those defending the Board back then, continue to do so now.

Is not always the case, nevertheless it is quite an occurrence.