Footy First Complaints.

[GrumpyOne]

Are the persons who are complaining about the way Footy First is running the club, complaining about the overall direction of the club, or complaining about how certain decisions the club has made have disadvantaged them personally?

Some of the stone throwers here seem to fall into the latter category.

[fingers]

Good question Grumps....I'm happy with the board - the direction is correct and the spend is correct. Not sure what people are complaining about. Yes GW could be more visible - if he was at the other end we would complain about another Eddie. Which president has the correct model.

If you've been hit personally then gripe away - but separate that from where the club is going....which is the bigger picture.

If you're really p1ssed off then stand for the board.

Happy new year everyone

(time to kill at the KL aisport lounge

Fingers

[WayneJudson42]

Ok, I'll bite...

It appears the latter, with most of the "complaining" being about:

1- Too many Sunday games
2- Not getting Cousins
3- Reserved seating fiasco.

Of the 3, IMO the seting is a legit cause for complaints.

On the plus side...

1- off field recruitmet of personnel such as Misson and Drain
2- Increased spending on footy dept
3- full use of rookie list
4- stability via 1 year extension of RL contract.

Simply on that basis... obviously the "latter" to answer your question Grumps.

[Mr Magic]

I was one of the few who was 'preaching caution' last year when the Board 'coup' was on, mainly because of the lack of detail being provided by Footy First about their plans.

I have absolutely no qualms about their first year of overseeing the Club. I'm sure they've made some mistakes but I believe on balance they've done far more good for the Club than bad.

From the outside looking in there seems to be a harmonious spirit between Board, Staff, Football Dept and players.

The media leaks that so many on here were critical of during the final year of the previous admin seem to have almost disappeared.

The Board seem to have publicly backed the coach and players whenever necessary and the business of St Kilda FC seems to be going along smoothly.


It would appear 3 recent decisions seems to have raised the ire of a vocal group of supporters:-

the decision to relocate our training base to Seaford
the decision to convert L2 seatholders to Social CLub
the decision not to recruit Ben Cousins.

My personal opinion on those 3 decisions is that those entrusted with making the decisions have far more knowledge on the circumstances than any of us and therefore are in a far superior position to make those decisions.
That doesn't mean that we, with little or no knowledge, cannot 'second-guess' those decisions. It's our right as supporters and forum members to do so, but it doesn't necessarily mean our criticism of them is either correct or warranted.

[joffaboy]

Ithe decision to convert L2 seatholders to Social CLub

Money grabbing pricks.

Money over loyalty to long time and financial supporters

Treating long time supporters like dirt.

And they will wonder why we dont get more than 30k members.

Westaway and his board of money hungry a scum can all piss off AFAIAC.

I was like MM and preached caution but was howled down by those seeking blood last year.

Well this mob is useless and a blight on our club.

[GrumpyOne]

Ithe decision to convert L2 seatholders to Social CLub

Money grabbing pricks.

Money over loyalty to long time and financial supporters

Treating long time supporters like dirt.

And they will wonder why we dont get more than 30k members.

Westaway and his board of money hungry a scum can all piss off AFAIAC.

I was like MM and preached caution but was howled down by those seeking blood last year.

Well this mob is useless and a blight on our club.

Just one decision Joff and one that affects your own hip pocket.

Any other examples of mismanagement?

[joffaboy]

Just one decision Joff and one that affects your own hip pocket.

Any other examples of mismanagement?

How did it effeect my hip pocket?

I had a L2 reserved seat.

I had a SC membership

It would costing me not a cent more. It was a blatant slap in the face to others who could not afford it and that is what I object ot. The arrogant heavy handedness and couldn't care less attitude of the board.

Couldn't care less if you had sat in a seat for years. Couldn't care less if you had a community of friends around you from all parts of the state for home games. Couldn't care less if you had been loyal and paid up since the beginning of time.

Pay up you scum or piss off. That is the response from the club. They treat their members with distain and contempt.

Because they have overspent like a drunken sailor and made a loss this season, the supporter is expected to pick up their tab.

A family in front of us is expected to pay $600 more a year next year for one reserved game less.

Other mismanagement you ask?

The debacle of the home ground dragging on.

The substantial trading loss for this season after many years of profits?

Theres three for a start.

Now rumours of more instability at board level.

I warned to take care in the distasteful rush to oust Butterss, I asked where the money for all this spending was coming from, but was howled down by the baying mob who wanted blood.

Well we know where the money is coming from for their blatant lack of prudence with funds - from the punter, that who. Squeeze the punter until the pips squeak.

Well here one who wont be party to leeching and bloodsucking because the tools in Admin aren't capable of balancing the books.

You reap what you sow.

[GrumpyOne]

Just one decision Joff and one that affects your own hip pocket.

Any other examples of mismanagement?

How did it effeect my hip pocket?

I had a L2 reserved seat.

I had a SC membership

It would costing me not a cent more. It was a blatant slap in the face to others who could not afford it and that is what I object ot. The arrogant heavy handedness and couldn't care less attitude of the board.

Couldn't care less if you had sat in a seat for years. Couldn't care less if you had a community of friends around you from all parts of the state for home games. Couldn't care less if you had been loyal and paid up since the beginning of time.

Pay up you scum or piss off. That is the response from the club. They treat their members with distain and contempt.

Because they have overspent like a drunken sailor and made a loss this season, the supporter is expected to pick up their tab.

A family in front of us is expected to pay $600 more a year next year for one reserved game less.

Other mismanagement you ask?

The debacle of the home ground dragging on.

The substantial trading loss for this season after many years of profits?

Theres three for a start.

Now rumours of more instability at board level.

I warned to take care in the distasteful rush to oust Butterss, I asked where the money for all this spending was coming from, but was howled down by the baying mob who wanted blood.

Well we know where the money is coming from for their blatant lack of prudence with funds - from the punter, that who. Squeeze the punter until the pips squeak.

Well here one who wont be party to leeching and bloodsucking because the tools in Admin aren't capable of balancing the books.

You reap what you sow.

Well....... sorta asked for that didn't I

Brings a whole new debate to the fore: Is it more important to balance the books and continually finish mid-ladder, or should we spend a bit more to give us a chance at the holy grail?

I'm sure that the community of friends will still exist, albeit in different seats, in the areas that your membership enables you access to. Just a bit more difficult to organise, thats all.

Diehard loyalty by the club would still have us playing games at Moorabbin, with all the problems that went with that location.

[Solar]

Just one decision Joff and one that affects your own hip pocket.

Any other examples of mismanagement?

How did it effeect my hip pocket?

I had a L2 reserved seat.

I had a SC membership

It would costing me not a cent more. It was a blatant slap in the face to others who could not afford it and that is what I object ot. The arrogant heavy handedness and couldn't care less attitude of the board.

Couldn't care less if you had sat in a seat for years. Couldn't care less if you had a community of friends around you from all parts of the state for home games. Couldn't care less if you had been loyal and paid up since the beginning of time.

Pay up you scum or piss off. That is the response from the club. They treat their members with distain and contempt.

Because they have overspent like a drunken sailor and made a loss this season, the supporter is expected to pick up their tab.

A family in front of us is expected to pay $600 more a year next year for one reserved game less.

Other mismanagement you ask?

The debacle of the home ground dragging on.

The substantial trading loss for this season after many years of profits?

Theres three for a start.

Now rumours of more instability at board level.

I warned to take care in the distasteful rush to oust Butterss, I asked where the money for all this spending was coming from, but was howled down by the baying mob who wanted blood.

Well we know where the money is coming from for their blatant lack of prudence with funds - from the punter, that who. Squeeze the punter until the pips squeak.

Well here one who wont be party to leeching and bloodsucking because the tools in Admin aren't capable of balancing the books.

You reap what you sow.

Well....... sorta asked for that didn't I

Brings a whole new debate to the fore: Is it more important to balance the books and continually finish mid-ladder, or should we spend a bit more to give us a chance at the holy grail?

I'm sure that the community of friends will still exist, albeit in different seats, in the areas that your membership enables you access to. Just a bit more difficult to organise, thats all.

Diehard loyalty by the club would still have us playing games at Moorabbin, with all the problems that went with that location.

See I come from it from two angles...

yes the timing was terrible and it has put pressure on some committed supporters. It will effect them and has not given them a choice. Take it or leave it.

But these guys sit in the best seats in the house. I would wonder what would happen if the club had just increased the price of the premium seats by say $120 instead. There are a stack of people waiting to get these seats and it's not like they can down grade to a cheaper seat?

But once again, if this is the biggest gripe then you have to wonder. Hell ask the collingwood cheer squad about these types of financial decision....

and yet those who are against this type of increase in income complaign when the club does not post a profit. Can't have your cake and eat it as well.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Ok, I'll bite...

It appears the latter, with most of the "complaining" being about:

1- Too many Sunday games
2- Not getting Cousins
3- Reserved seating fiasco.

Of the 3, IMO the seting is a legit cause for complaints.

On the plus side...

1- off field recruitmet of personnel such as Misson and Drain
2- Increased spending on footy dept
3- full use of rookie list
4- stability via 1 year extension of RL contract.

Simply on that basis... obviously the "latter" to answer your question Grumps.

I agree with the summary of the complaints. I'm not sure that a year in I'd credit any of the latter to the new board as credits.

While I was another preching caution a year ago (and on the balance in hindsight, I'd say the move has been positive if only for removing the old board), I can't say I've got anything against the new board at this stage. While I disagree with the Cousins decision (to put it mildly), and I struggle to see how the decision will not look bad a year from now, at this stage it's a point of evaluation, not a judgement - the games are played on the field, not on paper, we (the members) gave them the job, they've made a decision - and they get enough rope to hang themselves with.

The Frankston decision won't have it's +/- known for years. The "money grab"... well, it's tough times for businesses as well as individuals, hitting up those who can probably afford it when there's a waiting list in place for the seats it always going to be unpopular, but is smart if they want to be able to keep spending.

A year into a boards tenure, the board hasn't done enough either way to earn the depth of response some give them - but that's the nature of a place like this. For myself, I still don't have any love for the new board, but with the honeymoon now over, they appear competent.

[jays]

sunday games for sure!

[kaos theory]

This board has addressed two of our biggest weakness over the last 5 yrs. Weaknesses which have cost games (maybe a flag in 05), and has restricted the development of many players that should be coming into their prime.

I'm talking about 'training services' & recruiting. People seem to forget how pathetic we were in these areas.

We had players with long records of continuous soft tissue injuiries and no systematic approach was taking to deal with this & NO records kept by the previous admin on these injuries!

In recruiting, it was a similar story with no systematic and comprehensive approach. Instead, we had some old guy with a car driving around the place trying to recruit players on a hunch.

The turnaround in these areas in only 12 months of operation is impressive and should be applauded by our supporters.

However, what a small vocal section of our supporters tend to do is whinge & complain about everything, and especially things out of the board's control.

[Mr Magic]

We had players with long records of continuous soft tissue injuiries and no systematic approach was taking to deal with this & NO records kept by the previous admin on these injuries!

I'm all for giving credit to our Board when it is due, but I think you'll find that this particular area of improvement was actually commenced by RL in his first season (2007) when the previous administration was in charge.

It was they who instituted a new 'model' of 'Football Operations' based on teh reccomendations provided by the 'expert panel' that saw GT removed as part of the overhaul.

I'm also not sure about 'recruiting' because wasn't John Peake employed late in teh 2007 season? If so that was agin during the previous admin and prior to the current Board nominating, let alone taking over.

It was one of the things that disappointed me about last year's Board coup - the fact taht many of the things Footy First were calling for had already been started.

[WayneJudson42]

At the risk of being labelled a "blindly following sheep"... do we really need threads that do no more than create angst and negative energy?

Yes, I realize that this is a forum etc.

But geeez, we're quick to can journos for unsabstatiated claims, yet we don't hesitate to do the same.

Look forward people, look forward.

My biggest fear about GT being on TV is that it will create numerous threads based on his opnions.

Like RL's term as coach, it's far too early to judge the legacy of the current board.

Frankly, I don't know Westaway and would'nt reconize him in a pink fit.

In a footy sense, I'm happy to trust Burkie and Thompson.

As long as this board sets the club up for long term financial security and on field success, they've done their job IMO.

There have been and will continue to be minor decisions which will pyss off certain people, and that's to be expected. You cannot be everything to everyone.

And let's be honest... even if we were making a $1+ profit each year and have 1st class facilities... like the filth... but no real onfield success, would we all be happy? I doubt it.

Build the footy department... win games, and the members and sponsors will take care of themselves.

[GSG]

Are you guys kidding me???

What’s good about this board??

St. Kilda is the most invisible club in the competition. Westaway who? Do we ever hear or see him. What about our high-profile board members such as Nathan Burke or Andrew Thompson. Where are they - do I ever hear or see them. What do they do for the Club?

Our presence in the media is zilch, nothing, non-existent. Who’s sticking up in the media for us. A dumb dipstick called Francis Leach whose favourite saying is …. let’s talk about another club. Has he every stuck up for us??? He was the one who’s rubbishing St. Kilda the most when we had a few losses. David Schwarz sticks up for us far more than FL ever does.

Apart from the Bulldogs who lag a bit behind us a bit, so far, we boast the lowest membership in Victoria. If we get to 30,000 members I’ll be ecstatic. However, I think, 26,000-28,000 is more like it.

Did we post a profit - I don’t think so - and we wont’ find out either, as the board obviously is not sending us the financial statement, which I thought, as a social club member, I would be entitled do.

Like any other enterprise, the Club needs to be marketed, promoted. Love him or hate him, that’s was Eddie M. does so well. In this department, our board SUCKS big time!

Sorry guys and dolls - I love St. Kilda - but at times, I really despair when I see how this great Club is run.

I can only hope I’m so wrong!

Go Saints in 2009.

[kaos theory]

I'm all for giving credit to our Board when it is due, but I think you'll find that this particular area of improvement was actually commenced by RL in his first season (2007) when the previous administration was in charge.

mr. magic.

NO your assertion is wrong.

Under RB's last yr, there was a recognition of problems in training and recruiting, but little was actualy done about it. Look at our injuries in 07, terrible.

RB used it as an excuse to get rid of GT, but did little about it.

The comprehensive & systematic approach was put in place with FF.

Lyon did make noises about the probelms, and has a good professional approach, that is why he was kept and his contract exteneded this yr.

But don't confuse RB's words with the current board's actions.

Are you guys kidding me???

What’s good about this board??

St. Kilda is the most invisible club in the competition. Westaway who? Do we ever hear or see him. What about our high-profile board members such as Nathan Burke or Andrew Thompson. Where are they - do I ever hear or see them. What do they do for the Club?

Our presence in the media is zilch, nothing, non-existent. Who’s sticking up in the media for us. A dumb dipstick called Francis Leach whose favourite saying is …. let’s talk about another club. Has he every stuck up for us??? He was the one who’s rubbishing St. Kilda the most when we had a few losses. David Schwarz sticks up for us far more than FL ever does

GSG -

Our invisibility is a result of our playing style lack of excitment in our youth.

This is the result of yrs of neglect under previous admis & coaches. We had potential & excitment, but we threw it away through years of in-fighting, egos & short-sighted approaches.

This admin has been in power ONE YEAR. What dd you expect? We had the poorest list of under 21 players in the comp. We had too many players under-developed, due to poor training programs and injury management. These things take yrs to get right again. Don't be simplistic and confuse your responses.

As for the prez in the public. I don't give a f*** about that. Would you rather have RB carrying on in public and embarrassing the club with his public spats with GT?

The media, the dollars and supporters will come when we start generating excitement on the field again. We are addressing that, as we saw late in the season, and the new recruits this yr and last yr (given the limited picks we have got).

[sainteronline]

Are the persons who are complaining about the way Footy First is running the club (yes, many of the reasons have already been stated, seating, Seaford, treating members with contempt "confidential information"), complaining about the overall direction of the club (no, but I would like to know why we have not posted a profit, the club needs a balance), or complaining about how certain decisions the club has made have disadvantaged (the club, you forgot that one,imho) them personally?

Some of the stone throwers here seem to fall into the latter category.

[Enrico_Misso]

Are you guys kidding me???

What’s good about this board??

St. Kilda is the most invisible club in the competition. Westaway who? Do we ever hear or see him. What about our high-profile board members such as Nathan Burke or Andrew Thompson. Where are they - do I ever hear or see them. What do they do for the Club?

Our presence in the media is zilch, nothing, non-existent. Who’s sticking up in the media for us. A dumb dipstick called Francis Leach whose favourite saying is …. let’s talk about another club. Has he every stuck up for us??? He was the one who’s rubbishing St. Kilda the most when we had a few losses. David Schwarz sticks up for us far more than FL ever does.

Apart from the Bulldogs who lag a bit behind us a bit, so far, we boast the lowest membership in Victoria. If we get to 30,000 members I’ll be ecstatic. However, I think, 26,000-28,000 is more like it.

Did we post a profit - I don’t think so - and we wont’ find out either, as the board obviously is not sending us the financial statement, which I thought, as a social club member, I would be entitled do.

Like any other enterprise, the Club needs to be marketed, promoted. Love him or hate him, that’s was Eddie M. does so well. In this department, our board SUCKS big time!

Sorry guys and dolls - I love St. Kilda - but at times, I really despair when I see how this great Club is run.

I can only hope I’m so wrong!

Go Saints in 2009.

Agree.
Westaway is the invisible man.
No profile.
And too scared to speak out against Dimwit when we are disadvantaged - like our hopeless Twilight Draw.

[Eastern]

Are the persons who are complaining about the way Footy First is running the club, complaining about the overall direction of the club, or complaining about how certain decisions the club has made have disadvantaged them personally?

Some of the stone throwers here seem to fall into the latter category.

And, I wonder how many of them have gone beyond whinging on this forum and actually taken their grievences to the club and sought an audience with the President and/or the CEO. Perhaps if they did they might receive some logical reasons for some of the decisions that have been made.

I am not saying they will like all or any of what they hear, but they should get answers. The "Ask Archie & Ask Membership" sections on Saints Central suggests that the club is prepared to listen. Also, Archie has answered all the "civil" e-mails that I have ever sent him at archief@saints.com.au !!

[sainteronline]

And, I wonder how many of them have gone beyond whinging on this forum and actually taken their grievences to the club and sought an audience with the President and/or the CEO. Perhaps if they did they might receive some logical reasons for some of the decisions that have been made.

I am not saying they will like all or any of what they hear, but they should get answers. The "Ask Archie & Ask Membership" sections on Saints Central suggests that the club is prepared to listen. Also, Archie has answered all the "civil" e-mails that I have ever sent him at archief@saints.com.au !!

let me see in regards to Seaford

the answer would be they thought that would be the best fit for St Kilda blah blah, a decision had to be made blah blah


in regards to the membership

it would be to increase revenue

and in regards to the Benny cousins decision

"Confidential information"

[skeptic]

EM, speaking out against Dimwit is not a fight you can win

i seem to recall that GT took a dig at the umpires a few seasons back b4 a game against Freo... i bet u remember the result

in that regard they're doing the right thing

[St Fidelius]

And, I wonder how many of them have gone beyond whinging on this forum and actually taken their grievences to the club and sought an audience with the President and/or the CEO. Perhaps if they did they might receive some logical reasons for some of the decisions that have been made.

I am not saying they will like all or any of what they hear, but they should get answers. The "Ask Archie & Ask Membership" sections on Saints Central suggests that the club is prepared to listen. Also, Archie has answered all the "civil" e-mails that I have ever sent him at archief@saints.com.au !!

let me see in regards to Seaford

the answer would be they thought that would be the best fit for St Kilda blah blah, a decision had to be made blah blah


If the Moorabbin deal was presumebly out of the question and the Club was offered to relocate to Frankston and that Council offered over $3M for the relocation.

in regards to the membership

it would be to increase revenue

And what is wrong with that when our football department needed more funds?

and in regards to the Benny cousins decision

"Confidential information"

Have Collingwood asked about their 6 months investigations???
Why should we question our Clubs 5 month investigation??

If you really want answers to the nitty gritty of how the Club is run, nominate your good self as a candidate to the Club and list your credentials...

Put up or shut up.

[sainteronline]

let me see in regards to Seaford

the answer would be they thought that would be the best fit for St Kilda blah blah, a decision had to be made blah blah


If the Moorabbin deal was presumebly out of the question and the Club was offered to relocate to Frankston and that Council offered over $3M for the relocation.
from what I hear it was over what three or four poky machines, that was the excuse I heard anyway
in regards to the membership

it would be to increase revenue

And what is wrong with that when our football department needed more funds? (get more sponsors, football departments aren't the only one short of funds, so are football supporters)[/color]and in regards to the Benny cousins decision

"Confidential information"

Have Collingwood asked about their 6 months investigations???
Why should we question our Clubs 5 month investigation??
(Don't care about Collingwood)
If you really want answers to the nitty gritty of how the Club is run, nominate your good self as a candidate to the Club and list your credentials...

Put up or shut up.

[/quote]

now let me see

I live in Geelong

I am in an electric wheelchair with no means of personal transport to get to Linton St, let alone down to Seaford

will you pay my taxi fare from Geelong to Seaford

because if the football department is short of funds now

imagine having to pay for my taxi fare

get real

PS sorry about the larger font in red, but as you copied my reply or my method of reply, I had to have some way for people to tell the difference between now replies

[WayneJudson42]

And, I wonder how many of them have gone beyond whinging on this forum and actually taken their grievences to the club and sought an audience with the President and/or the CEO. Perhaps if they did they might receive some logical reasons for some of the decisions that have been made.

I am not saying they will like all or any of what they hear, but they should get answers. The "Ask Archie & Ask Membership" sections on Saints Central suggests that the club is prepared to listen. Also, Archie has answered all the "civil" e-mails that I have ever sent him at archief@saints.com.au !!

let me see in regards to Seaford

the answer would be they thought that would be the best fit for St Kilda blah blah, a decision had to be made blah blah


If the Moorabbin deal was presumebly out of the question and the Club was offered to relocate to Frankston and that Council offered over $3M for the relocation.

in regards to the membership

it would be to increase revenue

And what is wrong with that when our football department needed more funds?

and in regards to the Benny cousins decision

"Confidential information"

Have Collingwood asked about their 6 months investigations???
Why should we question our Clubs 5 month investigation??

If you really want answers to the nitty gritty of how the Club is run, nominate your good self as a candidate to the Club and list your credentials...

Put up or shut up.

Hear hear!

WTF do people want from the board? All the complaints as I see them are about never seeing Westaway... whoooopppeee farken doooo.

The question is: Is he running the club responsibly?

If you wanna compare... previous admin employed someone to build the membership... which worked despite a lack of onfield success. Then in a stroke of genius, Butterbrain sacked them coz he reckoned the club could do it and save a few $$$. Gee what a great idea. Oh, but we showed a profit didn't we?

Now people are questioning if we made a profit. WTF? We needed money spent in the footy dept to give the boys every opportunity to play competitive football. FFS!

Seaford? Who really gives a toss? Is it financially viable? A slong as the players are happy with their facilities, WTF has it got to do with supporters?

Ask the players if they're happy with the new fitness staff and the fact that they actually have new tackle bags and footballs. See what they say.

Like you say St Fid... instead of whinging and carping and making idol threats, people should nominate and show us what they can do better... or shut the F*** up... or p1ss off and follow another club.

As for memberships... if this forum is any indication of the negative, fickle, fairweather supporter base that we have, then no farking wonder we won't see 30,000 +.

People, get it into your thick skulls: You are a paying member which entitles you to a vote, and discounted admission to home games.

You are NOT shareholders in the club. If you someow believe that being a member entitles you to a "batphone" to Westaway's office, then grow up.

If you buy a reserved seat, you do it because you WANT to... not because the club held a gun to your frickin head and forced you to.

Helping the club financially is a by-product of your lifestyle decision, and your preference for discounted entry to home games.

[sainteronline]

Like you say St Fid... instead of whinging and carping and making idol threats, people should nominate and show us what they can do better... or shut the F*** up... or p1ss off and follow another club.
(Like I said, you pay my taxi fares from Geelong to Seaford, I will nominate, now you put up or shut up)
You are NOT shareholders in the club. If you someow believe that being a member entitles you to a "batphone" to Westaway's office, then grow up.
(No but I can withdraw my membership, should they continue to make bad decisions, I have that right, don't blame me if other people do the same and you are left with no members, that is my right)

Helping the club financially is a by-product of your lifestyle decision, and your preference for discounted entry to home games.