BEGLEY/DAWSON > COUSINS/CARROLL

[Iceman234]

We should have taken Cousins.

OMG I got it wrong then.

Sorry oh great and powerful Oz....

FFS we should never have taken him and DIDN'T.

Reckon there may have been a greater reason for not taking him than there was in favour of "Everton said so - therefore we shall."

Get the F*** over it..... and get on with supporting who we HAVE...

Can't believe tossers are still sooking over the non BC issue. A player who was never a Saint, and never should have been.

Go get a Tigers membership FFS.

Since when is it a crime to have a valid opinion?

That post is pathetic in its immaturity.

Grow up.

Agreed! Pathetic post. If you dont agree with the "iceman" you're a loser

BC should have been taken, but wasn't and it may prove to be a mistake on different levels.

already OFF field it has shown to be a mistake, and lets see what happens on field.

If we win the flag this year then i guess the board were right, and i, along with the silent majority were wrong...

I guess we'll see...

Hahahaha you are the silent majority are you?

More like the vocal minority, as happens so often in so many aspects of life.

I never said I was right or wrong initially, it came from Everton that we should have taken Cousins in this post. I hadn't entered into it until that comment.

I disagree so I'm in the wrong? You don't agree with the Club's decision - makes me somehow wrong? Hilarious. Vocal minority.

Get behind the players we have, get over your BC infatuation.

Are the other 14 clubs supporters carrying on like spoilt little brats who didn't get what they asked Santa for? No, I'm pretty sure they are happy to get on with supporting their club and their players, and couldn't give a toss about BC.

Spare me the "pathetic post" comments and get behind the team we have.

[WayneJudson42]

Agree. We were on opposites side when BC came up. But time to move on.

I also agree that it is the vocal minority who were the ones making the most noise about sacking the board and tearing up memberships.

Not sure where "silent" comes in to the equation.

Why these ridiculous comparisons are made is beyond me. TBH.

Too many "what if's".

Factoids are that you cannot change the past, nor can you sontrol things that you do not have control over.

This whole "we got it wrong off the field" argument is subjective IMO.

LOL, if we win the flag we got it right? WTF? So if we finish above Richmond, but don't win a flag then we got it wrong? Where's the substance to this argument?

So let's get behind the boys.

I think those opposed to and those agreeing with the decision have stated their views... so let's move on.

And can the vocal minority get over it?

[tweedaletomanning]

Definately the silent majoity...Always the same 2 or 3 posters piping up saying great we didn't get BC.
I have spoken to each and every one of my (Social Club) MEMBER friends that all sit together on L2
(32 of us) and not one of them were not dissappointed when we didn't go for cousins.

The only way really would be to take a poll...BUT that's not really feasible or relevant NOW.

Like many of us feel, the ONLY real way for us to have bridged the gap between the two Grand finalists was to have done something special.

The only people that think we are a realistic chance for the flag,(with the status quo) did NOT attend the finals last year.

There is NO basis to beleive we will improve significantly enough next year.

If I'm wrong , GREAT...I'll be enjoying a FLAG for the FIRST time in my life.

Anyway, i actually believe we have a great coach, but we are lacking a bit in the cattle department.

Guess I'm just sick of waiting and watching ,while every other team wins a flag before us.

HAWTHORN before US??? FFS

[Mr Magic]

Definately the silent majoity...Always the same 2 or 3 posters piping up saying great we didn't get BC.
I have spoken to each and every one of my (Social Club) MEMBER friends that all sit together on L2
(32 of us) and not one of them were not dissappointed when we didn't go for cousins.

I don't think you posted that correctly?
You've posted a 'double negative' which means a 'positive'.

As you rpost currently reads it means that all 32 of your SC mates were not dissapointed with teh decision not to recruit Cousins.
I think you meant to say that they were disappointed?

[WayneJudson42]

Definately the silent majoity...Always the same 2 or 3 posters piping up saying great we didn't get BC.
I have spoken to each and every one of my (Social Club) MEMBER friends that all sit together on L2
(32 of us) and not one of them were not dissappointed when we didn't go for cousins.

The only way really would be to take a poll...BUT that's not really feasible or relevant NOW.

Like many of us feel, the ONLY real way for us to have bridged the gap between the two Grand finalists was to have done something special.

The only people that think we are a realistic chance for the flag,(with the status quo) did NOT attend the finals last year.

There is NO basis to beleive we will improve significantly enough next year.

If I'm wrong , GREAT...I'll be enjoying a FLAG for the FIRST time in my life.

Anyway, i actually believe we have a great coach, but we are lacking a bit in the cattle department.

Guess I'm just sick of waiting and watching ,while every other team wins a flag before us.

HAWTHORN before US??? FFS

Like I said, I was happy to take him.

Like I also said... where was the passion and pressure from supporters for the club to take him?

Perhaps people should have spoken earlier. Or did they assume we would have... evenif the board only ever stated that they were looking at the possibilities?

All the people I've spoken to aren't really fussed about it. So who's right?

[tweedaletomanning]

Definately the silent majoity...Always the same 2 or 3 posters piping up saying great we didn't get BC.
I have spoken to each and every one of my (Social Club) MEMBER friends that all sit together on L2
(32 of us) and not one of them were not dissappointed when we didn't go for cousins.

I don't think you posted that correctly?
You've posted a 'double negative' which means a 'positive'.

As you rpost currently reads it means that all 32 of your SC mates were not dissapointed with teh decision not to recruit Cousins.
I think you meant to say that they were disappointed?

Not quite...

NOT one of them were not dissappointed, which means All of them WERE dissappointed.

Sorry, I sound like a politician...


But seriously, a few of them were even cosidering not taking up their memberships because of both the BC issue and the Sunday games. I begged them to take up the SC seats again..

[markp]

Like I also said... where was the passion and pressure from supporters for the club to take him?....

Perhaps people should have spoken earlier. Or did they assume we would have.

Bingo....

And like it or not, as Cousins was picked up by another club there will be no 'moving on' from this till we see what He and the Saints respectively serve up in '09.

[mad saint guy]

I'd rather one decent player than a couple of cheap crap players. Begley and Dawson might be able to fill a hole if we've got injuries but they're not going to get us over the line in any games.

Cousins was there to take for a 7th round draft pick and we let Richmond get him. Yes, he was a huge risk, but had the potential to get us into a grand final. He would contribute as much as any midfielder we've got and would take pressure off the likes of Dal Santo, Hayes and Montagna.

But for some reason (I damn well hope it was a good one) we chose not to take a risk and pick up more players who couldn't cut it at other clubs. Now sometimes a reject has upside, but Begley and Dawson are just ordinary players who will get a game ahead of kids who could actually have talent.

It's no good being a middle-range team these days, so I don't know why we are so afraid of taking a chance.

I've been reading 'The Draft' by Emma Quayle and it is very interesting reading about Hawthorn's football department rating each player and chosing who could realistically contribute to your next premiership team.

Our team at the moment would be

B: Gilbert, ---, ---
HB: Gram, ---, S.Fisher
C: Dal Santo, Hayes, Montagna
HF: ---, Riewoldt, Schneider
F: Milne, ---, Koschitzke

Foll: King, Ball, Goddard
Int: Blake, ---, ---, ---

Possible ins: X.Clarke, R.Clarke, Armitage, Geary, Dempster, L.Fisher

Draftees over the last two years unknown.

Cousins would have been in the team and potentially brought Hudghton, Michael Gardiner and Baker into the side. Then with some improvement from the fringe we could have been a shot, but right now I just don't think we have the cattle to be anything more than a 4th-10th side.

[kosifantutti23]

I've been reading 'The Draft' by Emma Quayle and it is very interesting reading about Hawthorn's football department rating each player and chosing who could realistically contribute to your next premiership team.

So they try to get rid of bad players and bring in good players.

Why didn't anyone else think of that?

Why didn't they draft Ben Cousins?

[kosifantutti23]

I have spoken to each and every one of my (Social Club) MEMBER friends that all sit together on L2
(32 of us) and not one of them were not dissappointed when we didn't go for cousins.

That's a triple negative! Degree of difficulty 9.5

[Hurricane]

IMHO the Cousins love here is getting to stupid levels. We didnt get him Richmond did, simple awnser if you want to support Ben Cousins switch to bloody Richmond.

Begley and Dawson are obviously not superstars and neither will likley win a Brownlow but do we need them to? If they can fill a gap when needed or be used to release Gram and Goddard to the midfield and/or take some pressure off Maxy at the back I will be happy.

BANG BANG

[Mr Magic]

IMHO the Cousins love here is getting to stupid levels. We didnt get him Richmond did, simple awnser if you want to support Ben Cousins switch to bloody Richmond.

Begley and Dawson are obviously not superstars and neither will likley win a Brownlow but do we need them to? If they can fill a gap when needed or be used to release Gram and Goddard to the midfield and/or take some pressure off Maxy at the back I will be happy.

BANG BANG

Ah!
An island in a sea of misty Cousins euphoric hero-worship!

Surely all this collective gnashing of teeth should wait until/when? 'Super-Coke&Ice' actually gets on the field and performs to the level that his hero-worshippers on her seem to feel is a given?

I would much rather salivate at the prospect of picking up a sensational midfielder who is 24 years old and will give us years of fabulous service.

Luke Ball suffered a similarly horrendous hamstring injury to that of 'Super-Coke&Ice' in his last game and yet his apparent recovery to full fitness seems to have no effect on those posters who are 'still maintaining the rage' at us daring to not pick up 'Super-Coke&Ice'?

They have obviously forgotten how good Ball was in 2004 and 2005 when he was one of the competitions elite midfielders?
They have obviously forgotten how well he as coming along in overcoming the OP that cruelled his ability to play in 2006/2007. The same affliction that hampered Judd so much.

But no, they would rather rage against the decision to not pick up 'Super-Coke&Ice' than salivate at the prospect of Luke Ball regaining his elite status!

Because they know that not picking up 'Super-Coke&Ice' is the difference between us winning and not winning a Premiership in the next 5 years!

[markp]

IMHO the Cousins love here is getting to stupid levels. We didnt get him Richmond did, simple awnser if you want to support Ben Cousins switch to bloody Richmond.

Begley and Dawson are obviously not superstars and neither will likley win a Brownlow but do we need them to? If they can fill a gap when needed or be used to release Gram and Goddard to the midfield and/or take some pressure off Maxy at the back I will be happy.

BANG BANG

I think people are just responding to the OP and subsequent posts, as they are entitled to.... simple answer, if you dont like it switch to another bloody thread.

[degruch]

Reading the OP, it looks like the St Kilda board stuck to their guns (and the vocal majority's requests) and ran with a 'youth policy' ahead of recycling older players. We drafted some kids, plus some young discards (Begley's delisting coming as a surprise to all in the football community, Dawson as yet unproven having not being able to crack the premiership starting 22), we ignored a couple older players. I can't see a problem with it and am happy to get behind our existing team...as the OP is elluding to.

There's no way anyone will be able to tell whether we 'stuffed up' in not selecting BC...if we win a premiership, if we don't, if we beat Richmond, blah, blah, blah...it's all so subjective, who would ever say for certain. I think the so called 'silent majority' (i.e. the 3-4 posters who keep raising BC love threads) will just have to move on...if anyone cares in the least by mid-season I'd be very surprised, and disappointed.

[saintsRrising]

I don't mind having picked up Zac or Begley.
Zac is a reasonable chance to surprise up forward too..


But geeze...Cousins is Cousins...and it would suprise me if he does not give the Togers at least two years as a very good to elite player.


All three are different players.
One is KPP..the other a running back....and Cousins a pure mid.

However if we had taken Couisns Begley most likely would not be at the Saints, but Zac most likely would have been.

[Richter]

I'd rather one decent player than a couple of cheap crap players. Begley and Dawson might be able to fill a hole if we've got injuries but they're not going to get us over the line in any games.

Cousins was there to take for a 7th round draft pick and we let Richmond get him. Yes, he was a huge risk, but had the potential to get us into a grand final. He would contribute as much as any midfielder we've got and would take pressure off the likes of Dal Santo, Hayes and Montagna.

It really doesn't come down to either Cousins/Carroll or Dawson/Begley.

We have 5/6 pressing concerns (in no particular order) with our list....

1/ Running mids - tick, F. Ray recruited and Begley recruited giving the option of playing Gram through the mid more.

2/ Cover for Max - semi-tick, Dawson chosen over Carroll.

3/ Longer term youth - tick

4/ 3rd forward option - tick (though probably not this year) - first rounder this year.

5/ Midfield magic - semi-tick, expect BJ to be a permanent mid. Raph and Begley to play wing backs.

To get Cousins we would have had to skimp off somewher else - probably (3) above - would have needed to take one less youngster.

As others have said, though myself being in favour of taking BC, I feel it's time to look to what we have and the the year ahead. I don't agree with others who say we're a mid-table team.

We have our core coming into it's peak, with improvement likely from Ball, Goddard, Clarkesx2 - loss of one RH of course, but otherwise we have plenty of scope for imrpovement from within.

I see us as a decent shot at at least a prelim again this year, and if you get that far..... well we might just go the whole way.....

GO SAINTS

[yipper]

I'd rather one decent player than a couple of cheap crap players. Begley and Dawson might be able to fill a hole if we've got injuries but they're not going to get us over the line in any games.

Cousins was there to take for a 7th round draft pick and we let Richmond get him. Yes, he was a huge risk, but had the potential to get us into a grand final. He would contribute as much as any midfielder we've got and would take pressure off the likes of Dal Santo, Hayes and Montagna.

It really doesn't come down to either Cousins/Carroll or Dawson/Begley.

We have 5/6 pressing concerns (in no particular order) with our list....

1/ Running mids - tick, F. Ray recruited and Begley recruited giving the option of playing Gram through the mid more.

2/ Cover for Max - semi-tick, Dawson chosen over Carroll.

3/ Longer term youth - tick

4/ 3rd forward option - tick (though probably not this year) - first rounder this year.

5/ Midfield magic - semi-tick, expect BJ to be a permanent mid. Raph and Begley to play wing backs.

To get Cousins we would have had to skimp off somewher else - probably (3) above - would have needed to take one less youngster.

As others have said, though myself being in favour of taking BC, I feel it's time to look to what we have and the the year ahead. I don't agree with others who say we're a mid-table team.

We have our core coming into it's peak, with improvement likely from Ball, Goddard, Clarkesx2 - loss of one RH of course, but otherwise we have plenty of scope for imrpovement from within.

I see us as a decent shot at at least a prelim again this year, and if you get that far..... well we might just go the whole way.....

GO SAINTS

Excellent summation. Couldn't agree more.

[CaptainRiewoldt]

I'd rather one decent player than a couple of cheap crap players. Begley and Dawson might be able to fill a hole if we've got injuries but they're not going to get us over the line in any games.

Cousins was there to take for a 7th round draft pick and we let Richmond get him. Yes, he was a huge risk, but had the potential to get us into a grand final. He would contribute as much as any midfielder we've got and would take pressure off the likes of Dal Santo, Hayes and Montagna.

It really doesn't come down to either Cousins/Carroll or Dawson/Begley.

We have 5/6 pressing concerns (in no particular order) with our list....

1/ Running mids - tick, F. Ray recruited and Begley recruited giving the option of playing Gram through the mid more.

2/ Cover for Max - semi-tick, Dawson chosen over Carroll.

3/ Longer term youth - tick

4/ 3rd forward option - tick (though probably not this year) - first rounder this year.

5/ Midfield magic - semi-tick, expect BJ to be a permanent mid. Raph and Begley to play wing backs.

To get Cousins we would have had to skimp off somewher else - probably (3) above - would have needed to take one less youngster.

As others have said, though myself being in favour of taking BC, I feel it's time to look to what we have and the the year ahead. I don't agree with others who say we're a mid-table team.

We have our core coming into it's peak, with improvement likely from Ball, Goddard, Clarkesx2 - loss of one RH of course, but otherwise we have plenty of scope for imrpovement from within.

I see us as a decent shot at at least a prelim again this year, and if you get that far..... well we might just go the whole way.....

GO SAINTS

THANK YOU!! This is all i was trying to say. We ticked more of the right boxes.

Getting Begley means we will have Goddard rather than Cousins in the midfield. Im going to back Goddard that he can become as good as cousins in 2009. certainly as good as cousins will be at 30 after missing 2 years.

I just think we used our heads a bit more rather than going 'ooooo cousins and carroll??' they have played some excellent footy they could make us go from 4th - 1st LIKE THAT!! Not a good way to run the club.

[Hurricane]

IMHO the Cousins love here is getting to stupid levels. We didnt get him Richmond did, simple awnser if you want to support Ben Cousins switch to bloody Richmond.

Begley and Dawson are obviously not superstars and neither will likley win a Brownlow but do we need them to? If they can fill a gap when needed or be used to release Gram and Goddard to the midfield and/or take some pressure off Maxy at the back I will be happy.

BANG BANG

I think people are just responding to the OP and subsequent posts, as they are entitled to.... simple answer, if you dont like it switch to another bloody thread.

Thats exactly what I was doing. Replying to the OP with my own opinion. Simple awnser if you dont like my reply/opinion switch to a nother bloody thread.

BANG BANG

[markp]

IMHO the Cousins love here is getting to stupid levels. We didnt get him Richmond did, simple awnser if you want to support Ben Cousins switch to bloody Richmond.

Begley and Dawson are obviously not superstars and neither will likley win a Brownlow but do we need them to? If they can fill a gap when needed or be used to release Gram and Goddard to the midfield and/or take some pressure off Maxy at the back I will be happy.

BANG BANG

I think people are just responding to the OP and subsequent posts, as they are entitled to.... simple answer, if you dont like it switch to another bloody thread.

Thats exactly what I was doing. Replying to the OP with my own opinion. Simple awnser if you dont like my reply/opinion switch to a nother bloody thread.

BANG BANG

Sorry, I thought it was just a rant against those who thought maybe we should've gone for Cousins.... who the hell would seriously think 'if you don't like it p1ss off to richmond' was a serious opinion?.... and what is 'Cousins love' anyway, and where are some examples of it?.... particularly at 'stupid levels'....

What is a joke is all this talk of the vocal/silent minority/majority, and any serious suggestion that folk who don't support the decision completely are in love with Cousins and should follow him to richmond.

[Mr Magic]

IMHO the Cousins love here is getting to stupid levels. We didnt get him Richmond did, simple awnser if you want to support Ben Cousins switch to bloody Richmond.

Begley and Dawson are obviously not superstars and neither will likley win a Brownlow but do we need them to? If they can fill a gap when needed or be used to release Gram and Goddard to the midfield and/or take some pressure off Maxy at the back I will be happy.

BANG BANG

I think people are just responding to the OP and subsequent posts, as they are entitled to.... simple answer, if you dont like it switch to another bloody thread.

Thats exactly what I was doing. Replying to the OP with my own opinion. Simple awnser if you dont like my reply/opinion switch to a nother bloody thread.

BANG BANG

Sorry, I thought it was just a rant against those who thought maybe we should've gone for Cousins.... who the hell would seriously think 'if you don't like it p1ss off to richmond' was a serious opinion?.... and what is 'Cousins love' anyway, and where are some examples of it?.... particularly at 'stupid levels'....

What is a joke is all this talk of the vocal/silent minority/majority, and any serious suggestion that folk who don't support the decision completely are in love with Cousins and should follow him to richmond.

Mark, from my own perspective there have been a number of posters who by their posts seem to have lost all sense of reality/proportion over the non-drafting of Cousins. Many on here were in favour of drafting him but have accepted the fact that we didn't and moved on. They may not necessarily agree with it (the decision not to proceed) but seem to see no sense in pilloring (sp?) the Club over it.

As for examples, I suggest you have a look at some of the posts of SainterOnline on this matter.


I think Hurricane was directing his views towards them.

[rodgerfox]

Carroll is a creep.

After they rolled us in the final in 06, he mouthed off after the game about how soft we were and how hard they were because we had 4 guys injured during the game.

Poor taste, unnecessary and unwarranted.

I'm quite pleased his career is over.


Harves doing his hammy is not a sign of him being soft.

[markp]

IMHO the Cousins love here is getting to stupid levels. We didnt get him Richmond did, simple awnser if you want to support Ben Cousins switch to bloody Richmond.

Begley and Dawson are obviously not superstars and neither will likley win a Brownlow but do we need them to? If they can fill a gap when needed or be used to release Gram and Goddard to the midfield and/or take some pressure off Maxy at the back I will be happy.

BANG BANG

I think people are just responding to the OP and subsequent posts, as they are entitled to.... simple answer, if you dont like it switch to another bloody thread.

Thats exactly what I was doing. Replying to the OP with my own opinion. Simple awnser if you dont like my reply/opinion switch to a nother bloody thread.

BANG BANG

Sorry, I thought it was just a rant against those who thought maybe we should've gone for Cousins.... who the hell would seriously think 'if you don't like it p1ss off to richmond' was a serious opinion?.... and what is 'Cousins love' anyway, and where are some examples of it?.... particularly at 'stupid levels'....

What is a joke is all this talk of the vocal/silent minority/majority, and any serious suggestion that folk who don't support the decision completely are in love with Cousins and should follow him to richmond.

Mark, from my own perspective there have been a number of posters who by their posts seem to have lost all sense of reality/proportion over the non-drafting of Cousins. Many on here were in favour of drafting him but have accepted the fact that we didn't and moved on. They may not necessarily agree with it (the decision not to proceed) but seem to see no sense in pilloring (sp?) the Club over it.

As for examples, I suggest you have a look at some of the posts of SainterOnline on this matter.


I think Hurricane was directing his views towards them.

That may well be the case MM, and perhaps if people have issue with the views of only one or two posters they could refer to them by name.... but I get the impression that all the people who disagreed with the decision are being lumped together.

[WayneJudson42]

I think it was more than 1 or 2 posters, MarkP. A 20 odd page thread with threats to rip up membership etc. IIRC.

[markp]

I think it was more than 1 or 2 posters, MarkP. A 20 odd page thread with threats to rip up membership etc. IIRC.

I think we're talking about now.... that thread was the equivalent of a live match thread!

For what it's worth, I hope that BC remains healthy, but if I'm honest I also hope he has an average or poor year footy-wise, and that our decision is vindicated..... but let's not pretend that there will be any 'moving on' till we see how the season unfolds.