Where have the Saints gone?

[PJ]

To seaford apparently

[saintsRrising]

Having said that however, our lack in membership .

So this must be FACT based on your past statements.

Please post the St Kilda Membership Numbers from the "passion years" which exceed say the membership numbers from say the "passionless" 2008.

"The optimism that is surrounding St Kilda heading into the 2006 season is translating into an off-field boom for the club as long-suffering Saints fans clamour to become members. With the start of the pre-season still more than a week away, the Saints already have more than 21,000 members, around 2000 more than the same time last year. And with 1000 additional members usually equating to around $100,000 in additional revenue, it is a huge boost to the once struggling club - whose financial performance off the field has improved just as much as its on-field performance in recent years. Such is the growth in St Kilda membership in recent years that this year the club signed up some 18,000 members before Christmas, which was more than its entire membership of 17,696 in 2002."


We currently have 14708 members.

Well, well down.

Pre-Season 2006 we were coming off a Top 4 finish and a Prelim appearance. We had over 18,000 members before Xmas.

Pre-Season 2009 we are too. We now have under 15,000 members.

I thought you were talking about the "passion years"...not just the last several....

Go back though our 100years.....and very very few would have greater membership numbers than 2008.

Numbers are basically at an historical high..

Why??

Well it is not a lot to do with 'passion"...but rather that many want to be associated with successful "winning" teams.

The Cats were beating back members the start of 2008..

The Hawks now have a huge surge...

The saints too when we seemed to be surging towards a flag had the membership numbers rise....more to do with the fickleness of many fans rather than their passion.

Many just simply will not attend a football match unless they are confident that their team will win.


If lack of passion was the only real determinant of membership numbers our membership would not be thirsty thousand of but rather a lot lot less.



However I will agree with RF in that somewhere along the way that St Kilda Football Club stopped really treating it's member as members....and instead we were moved to be cash -cows and just numbers. just units of income.

This is the case under FF... it was the case under RB and GT too. all are or were removed from the average member.

Anyone who was a Social Club Member back in the Eighties would know what a vast difference it was to then......compared to the beer bar that it is only today.

Back then the Social Club was actually "social"...and one could have a hit of squash (as I used too) or play lawn balls etc......all as one shared ones passion for the Saints.


Unfortunately today winning flag is all that matters to some...with the result that the club is no longer really club but is entertainment that we are not really members of, but really are just buying tickets to watch entertainment.

However despite the lack of a true club feeling anymore I still retain my passion for Saints.

[markp]

Passion ebbs and flows, and nostalgia can play tricks on you.

It's the start of summer ffs.... go for a swim down the beach, have some beers at the Espy, and soak it up.

I do agree the club could treat the fans a little less like mushrooms and a little more like family though (or at least stake-holders).... Westaway is the invisible man, and AD and his little puppet mate AA are the AFL anti-christs.

No one has mentioned the often-maligned CS yet either, which I think could use an injection of a little spirit and verve.... it seems a little lacking in the 18-35 bracket too.

Following a team fanatically is at core a futile and ridiculous pursuit... from that early age when you first 'choose' it, you have no control over how your team performs from week to week, or year to year... and yet your moods can hinge on those performances. It's not at all logical, and it's little wonder that people often drift away from it in favour of things they can control.

Any given year you can only ever really be sure the passion is still there when you see that first ball bounced and that first goal kicked.

agree to some extent with what you are saying, but the "treated like mushrooms, I feel needs more of an explanation.

Yes, I do agree that the treatment of "current 2nd level non social club reserved seats is just a disaster, with the fact that not all of those "ex 2008 reserved seat holders ever receiving any personal correspondence of the change.

This to me is absolutely p1ss poor from the Club, and I don't blame supporters venting their anger.

But if you are referring to the BC issue, that's a different story and one that is kept in house, like Collingwood has done.

I'm not referring to any one instance, but in general.... from the price changes you mention, BC, player availability (A. Hamill/ L. Ball 2 weeks? Who were they kidding?), requests to lock threads with a "it's under control", the Seaford saga, the clash jumpers, siren-gate, etc..... even back to the 'due process' followed when selecting past coaches... What has ever really been explained or justified to us?

I agree with much of the gist of RF's words, we need to be a Club and not become just some (protected) brand.

And at the risk of dragging up a dead old chestnut, maybe a Club would have given BC a shot, but a brand would see it as too much of a risk (though at present I'm going with the theory that it was determined that he is simply way too much of a tool, and we don't need him anyway).

[saintbrat]

Actually according to SaintBrat, the figure on Dec 27th was 17,500 - see the 'sticky Membership Thread'.

Well the club either lied to me, or to Saintbrat.

just to confirm the figures- I asked the club and got a reply---
17,745. number as of today-

[WayneJudson42]

To seaford apparently

Why are people upset about the clash jumper? I wouldn't give a flying fig if they wore lingere as long as they win games.

[St Fidelius]

Passion ebbs and flows, and nostalgia can play tricks on you.

It's the start of summer ffs.... go for a swim down the beach, have some beers at the Espy, and soak it up.

I do agree the club could treat the fans a little less like mushrooms and a little more like family though (or at least stake-holders).... Westaway is the invisible man, and AD and his little puppet mate AA are the AFL anti-christs.

No one has mentioned the often-maligned CS yet either, which I think could use an injection of a little spirit and verve.... it seems a little lacking in the 18-35 bracket too.

Following a team fanatically is at core a futile and ridiculous pursuit... from that early age when you first 'choose' it, you have no control over how your team performs from week to week, or year to year... and yet your moods can hinge on those performances. It's not at all logical, and it's little wonder that people often drift away from it in favour of things they can control.

Any given year you can only ever really be sure the passion is still there when you see that first ball bounced and that first goal kicked.

agree to some extent with what you are saying, but the "treated like mushrooms, I feel needs more of an explanation.

Yes, I do agree that the treatment of "current 2nd level non social club reserved seats is just a disaster, with the fact that not all of those "ex 2008 reserved seat holders ever receiving any personal correspondence of the change.

This to me is absolutely p1ss poor from the Club, and I don't blame supporters venting their anger.

But if you are referring to the BC issue, that's a different story and one that is kept in house, like Collingwood has done.

I'm not referring to any one instance, but in general.... from the price changes you mention, BC, player availability (A. Hamill/ L. Ball 2 weeks? Who were they kidding?), requests to lock threads with a "it's under control", the Seaford saga, the clash jumpers, siren-gate, etc..... even back to the 'due process' followed when selecting past coaches... What has ever really been explained or justified to us?

I agree with much of the gist of RF's words, we need to be a Club and not become just some (protected) brand.

And at the risk of dragging up a dead old chestnut, maybe a Club would have given BC a shot, but a brand would see it as too much of a risk (though at present I'm going with the theory that it was determined that he is simply way too much of a tool, and we don't need him anyway).

yeah, and interesting to hear the news headlines that BC failed to turn up for training at the tan today, didn't hear the full story but just a grab on the TV

[plugger66]

Passion ebbs and flows, and nostalgia can play tricks on you.

It's the start of summer ffs.... go for a swim down the beach, have some beers at the Espy, and soak it up.

I do agree the club could treat the fans a little less like mushrooms and a little more like family though (or at least stake-holders).... Westaway is the invisible man, and AD and his little puppet mate AA are the AFL anti-christs.

No one has mentioned the often-maligned CS yet either, which I think could use an injection of a little spirit and verve.... it seems a little lacking in the 18-35 bracket too.

Following a team fanatically is at core a futile and ridiculous pursuit... from that early age when you first 'choose' it, you have no control over how your team performs from week to week, or year to year... and yet your moods can hinge on those performances. It's not at all logical, and it's little wonder that people often drift away from it in favour of things they can control.

Any given year you can only ever really be sure the passion is still there when you see that first ball bounced and that first goal kicked.

agree to some extent with what you are saying, but the "treated like mushrooms, I feel needs more of an explanation.

Yes, I do agree that the treatment of "current 2nd level non social club reserved seats is just a disaster, with the fact that not all of those "ex 2008 reserved seat holders ever receiving any personal correspondence of the change.

This to me is absolutely p1ss poor from the Club, and I don't blame supporters venting their anger.

But if you are referring to the BC issue, that's a different story and one that is kept in house, like Collingwood has done.

I'm not referring to any one instance, but in general.... from the price changes you mention, BC, player availability (A. Hamill/ L. Ball 2 weeks? Who were they kidding?), requests to lock threads with a "it's under control", the Seaford saga, the clash jumpers, siren-gate, etc..... even back to the 'due process' followed when selecting past coaches... What has ever really been explained or justified to us?

I agree with much of the gist of RF's words, we need to be a Club and not become just some (protected) brand.

And at the risk of dragging up a dead old chestnut, maybe a Club would have given BC a shot, but a brand would see it as too much of a risk (though at present I'm going with the theory that it was determined that he is simply way too much of a tool, and we don't need him anyway).

yeah, and interesting to hear the news headlines that BC failed to turn up for training at the tan today, didn't hear the full story but just a grab on the TV

I wonder how rumours start? He trained at Punt Rd oval as he isnt fit enough yet to do the tan run.

[saintbrat]

yeah, and interesting to hear the news headlines that BC failed to turn up for training at the tan today, didn't hear the full story but just a grab on the TV

he and several others did lighter work at the club according to Terry.
although I'm fairly certain I saw him on telly- just not running the tan.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx
Ben Cousins watch- news item video
had done his workload for the day

[markp]

Passion ebbs and flows, and nostalgia can play tricks on you.

It's the start of summer ffs.... go for a swim down the beach, have some beers at the Espy, and soak it up.

I do agree the club could treat the fans a little less like mushrooms and a little more like family though (or at least stake-holders).... Westaway is the invisible man, and AD and his little puppet mate AA are the AFL anti-christs.

No one has mentioned the often-maligned CS yet either, which I think could use an injection of a little spirit and verve.... it seems a little lacking in the 18-35 bracket too.

Following a team fanatically is at core a futile and ridiculous pursuit... from that early age when you first 'choose' it, you have no control over how your team performs from week to week, or year to year... and yet your moods can hinge on those performances. It's not at all logical, and it's little wonder that people often drift away from it in favour of things they can control.

Any given year you can only ever really be sure the passion is still there when you see that first ball bounced and that first goal kicked.

agree to some extent with what you are saying, but the "treated like mushrooms, I feel needs more of an explanation.

Yes, I do agree that the treatment of "current 2nd level non social club reserved seats is just a disaster, with the fact that not all of those "ex 2008 reserved seat holders ever receiving any personal correspondence of the change.

This to me is absolutely p1ss poor from the Club, and I don't blame supporters venting their anger.

But if you are referring to the BC issue, that's a different story and one that is kept in house, like Collingwood has done.

I'm not referring to any one instance, but in general.... from the price changes you mention, BC, player availability (A. Hamill/ L. Ball 2 weeks? Who were they kidding?), requests to lock threads with a "it's under control", the Seaford saga, the clash jumpers, siren-gate, etc..... even back to the 'due process' followed when selecting past coaches... What has ever really been explained or justified to us?

I agree with much of the gist of RF's words, we need to be a Club and not become just some (protected) brand.

And at the risk of dragging up a dead old chestnut, maybe a Club would have given BC a shot, but a brand would see it as too much of a risk (though at present I'm going with the theory that it was determined that he is simply way too much of a tool, and we don't need him anyway).

yeah, and interesting to hear the news headlines that BC failed to turn up for training at the tan today, didn't hear the full story but just a grab on the TV

Maybe when they told him it was a session at the tan he thought he was meant to turn up at the solarium?

[Mr Magic]

Actually according to SaintBrat, the figure on Dec 27th was 17,500 - see the 'sticky Membership Thread'.

Well the club either lied to me, or to Saintbrat.

just to confirm the figures- I asked the club and got a reply---
17,745. number as of today-

They must be lying to you Bratty - those figures don't match with what Rodger has been using as an example.

[saintbrat]

They must be lying to you Bratty - those figures don't match with what Rodger has been using as an example.

pity the club isn't getting a donation for hits on SS- as opposed to getting cents for hits on saints.com.au

to be fair rodgerfox has managed to keep a fair number of people of the streets and out of the sun today- so they can thank him

[markp]

Why are people upset about the clash jumper? I wouldn't give a flying fig if they wore lingere as long as they win games.

Most do care... last years effort was a joke.

Everyone loves the candy-stripes... but when the AFL says jump, we say how high?.....

[St Fidelius]

Why are people upset about the clash jumper? I wouldn't give a flying fig if they wore lingere as long as they win games.

Most do care... last years effort was a joke.

Everyone loves the candy-stripes... but when the AFL says jump, we say how high?.....

nothing wrong with this years clash strip, as it's similar to a previous strip we wore in the past.

Yes, the "candy strip" was a good one and also worn in the past, good to see the Club has looked at the tradition of the Club and gone for a previously worn strip instead of the pathetic job of last year

[WayneJudson42]

Why are people upset about the clash jumper? I wouldn't give a flying fig if they wore lingere as long as they win games.

Most do care... last years effort was a joke.

That's exactly my point. Why? The clubs complied with the AFL. What's wrong with that? Should we oppose then because of what the filth do?

F*** me. It's a jumper. If people believe that the club screwed it's supporters for opting for a particluar strip... then we as a club a re screwed IMO.

Also, SRS the demise of the old Social Club would probably have a lot to do with changing lifestyles and the fact that we now work odd and linger hours.

Back then, you went to the game on Saturday. Then on Sunday, you had a roast chook for lunch with the family.

[Enrico_Misso]

Why are people upset about the clash jumper? I wouldn't give a flying fig if they wore lingere as long as they win games.

Most do care... last years effort was a joke.

Everyone loves the candy-stripes... but when the AFL says jump, we say how high?.....

Exactly.
That pathetic all-white look was a total embarassment.
Made them look like Freo.

We ultimately support the club as opposed to individual players.
And we support the club because of it's history and traditions.
And the jumper is a symbol of all that.

So of course it matters.

[WayneJudson42]

Why are people upset about the clash jumper? I wouldn't give a flying fig if they wore lingere as long as they win games.

Most do care... last years effort was a joke.

Everyone loves the candy-stripes... but when the AFL says jump, we say how high?.....

Exactly.
That pathetic all-white look was a total embarassment.
Made them look like Freo.

We ultimately support the club as opposed to individual players.
And we support the club because of it's history and traditions.
And the jumper is a symbol of all that.

So of course it matters.

Who was embarrassed? And who were the "most of us" that you mention?

The jumper was a marketing exercise AFAIAC.

If you followed the club because of tradition, then you will have arked up on more than 1 occasion...

[Teflon]

Does this thread actually have a point?

Geez...havent been round lately and stumble on this bollox...

I reckon you should throw in the towel RF - go follow the Tigers who've bought "kevin" their ........"Tigers man" home....

Seriously shouldnt mid life crisis threads be relegated to the "Generally no point" board?

[markp]

That's exactly my point. Why? The clubs complied with the AFL. What's wrong with that? Should we oppose then because of what the filth do?

F*** me. It's a jumper. If people believe that the club screwed it's supporters for opting for a particluar strip... then we as a club a re screwed IMO.

Happy to have a clash jumper, but is nothing untouchable?... It was virtually all white.

What about our name... maybe we should become the Seaford dolphins?

[PJ]

Been wondering for a while exactly why my love of AFL footy and the Saints is continuing to wane at a rapid rate.

Sorry even the opening line cracks me up.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

I've been wondering babe, since that last time we were together there just doesn't seem to be the same spark we used to have....

what a load of cr*p

Players come players go, we're all still here barracking.

[CaptainRiewoldt]

Dont despair RF!!

I enjoyed reading your post.

I undserstand what youi are saying but these are different times proffessional times that call for coaches and players to be more than just 'zoned' and have a love for the club they have to be professional athletes.

Its really not THAT bad RF. take Goddard... a one eyed carlton supporter and family who is now 100% a saints man wouldnt leave the club for all the tea in china.

The athletes and coaches may not be SAINTS people when they arrive but after 5 years of dedicated service they are SAINTS people.

Porfessionalism is new in AFL and in 10 years wouldnt it be great to have people like silvagni become SAINTS people????

Dont despair just roll with these changes the saints as a club has passionate members and have survived harder times than this.

GO SAINTS!!

[rodgerfox]

Unfortunately today winning flag is all that matters to some...with the result that the club is no longer really club but is entertainment that we are not really members of, but really are just buying tickets to watch entertainment.

Very well said.

[Saints94]

Unfortunately today winning flag is all that matters to some...with the result that the club is no longer really club but is entertainment that we are not really members of, but really are just buying tickets to watch entertainment.

Very well said.

There not supporting our team through the tough times

[WayneJudson42]

Unfortunately today winning flag is all that matters to some...with the result that the club is no longer really club but is entertainment that we are not really members of, but really are just buying tickets to watch entertainment.

Very well said.

Ha hahahahahahaahahhahahahaha!

So if that's the case, why do people get on here and whinge when we lose? And carry on that we'll never win a flag etc? As long as we "belong", who gives a stuff about winning a flag?

New club song for 2009?

You don't close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips.
There's no tenderness anymore in your fingertips.
I'm trying hard not to show it...
But Sainters, Sainters I know it...

You've lost that loving feeling.
Wo ho that loving feeling.
You've lost that loving feeling, now it's gone gone gone.
And Rodger can't go on, oh oh oh.

Baby baby, I'd buy a membership for you.
If you would only, love me, like like you used to do.
We had a love, a love, a love you don't find everyday.
So Archie, Archie, Archie, don't throw our love away.

Bring back that loving feeling, wo ho that loving feeling...

[Mr Magic]

Unfortunately today winning flag is all that matters to some...with the result that the club is no longer really club but is entertainment that we are not really members of, but really are just buying tickets to watch entertainment.

Very well said.

Ha hahahahahahaahahhahahahaha!

So if that's the case, why do people get on here and whinge when we lose? And carry on that we'll never win a flag etc? As long as we "belong", who gives a stuff about winning a flag?

New club song for 2009?

You don't close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips.
There's no tenderness anymore in your fingertips.
I'm trying hard not to show it...
But Sainters, Sainters I know it...

You've lost that loving feeling.
Wo ho that loving feeling.
You've lost that loving feeling, now it's gone gone gone.
And Rodger can't go on, oh oh oh.

Baby baby, I'd buy a membership for you.
If you would only, love me, like like you used to do.
We had a love, a love, a love you don't find everyday.
So Archie, Archie, Archie, don't throw our love away.

Bring back that loving feeling, wo ho that loving feeling...

Solid rolled gold! :

[busso mick]

Unfortunately today winning flag is all that matters to some...with the result that the club is no longer really club but is entertainment that we are not really members of, but really are just buying tickets to watch entertainment.

Very well said.

Ha hahahahahahaahahhahahahaha!

So if that's the case, why do people get on here and whinge when we lose? And carry on that we'll never win a flag etc? As long as we "belong", who gives a stuff about winning a flag?

New club song for 2009?

You don't close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips.
There's no tenderness anymore in your fingertips.
I'm trying hard not to show it...
But Sainters, Sainters I know it...

You've lost that loving feeling.
Wo ho that loving feeling.
You've lost that loving feeling, now it's gone gone gone.
And Rodger can't go on, oh oh oh.

Baby baby, I'd buy a membership for you.
If you would only, love me, like like you used to do.
We had a love, a love, a love you don't find everyday.
So Archie, Archie, Archie, don't throw our love away.

Bring back that loving feeling, wo ho that loving feeling...

You can't beat a good belly laugh to start the day at work after holidays. Well done WJ42, I just lurve that one.