Where have the Saints gone?

[WayneJudson42]

You say you embrace good change... I prefer to make good change happen by being pro-active.

Yep - and we've posted our thoughts here, which is by far the best best way to get the club to recognise we're unhappy.

Given the club monitors this site very closely - as already stated - and given they claim to be in touch with the supporters, don't you reckon they might show the foresight and good will to act on the feelings of their members?

Or are they so out-of-touch that they need a shredder-bound letter?

..there have been very few (if any) suggestions about what the club could do differently to bring back the passion some of you speak of...(see disclaimer above)

Lucky you put in a disclaimer, fingers!

Check out my long-ish post on this page, which details some examples of where I feel the club has erred/ignored supporters/hurt the feeling of community, etc.

A lot of them are small things, but small things often add up.

And the ONLY reason we're piping up is because we want this club to be the best that it can be.

Not if it's coupled with a few thousand sigs, it wouldn't.

Haven't you ever done something to upset someone, and didn't realize it until it was pointed out?

[evertonfc]

On this thread there's only a handful who have agreed with you and Rodge. If there is more, then they should become more vocal about it.

Actually, just looking back through the past few pages, I'm surprised there are so many people agreeing - or who at least see some merit in parts of what RF and others have been saying.

Doesn't seem to be a lot of people agreeing with the club, except for you, Magic and degruch.

And it's interesting, quite a few people actually missed his point - they just think RF is bored with the Saints, which isn't what he's saying at all.

There's definitely a feeling out there that the club could be doing more. Interesting.

[tweedaletomanning]

As one of our more senior and respected posters, savatage, would once say...I'm a bit from column a), a bit from column b) on this one.

I love the Saints. As much as ever. I'm here as often as I can be and keep in touch with those at the club to see what's going on.

But there are parts of the club that I am not happy with.

WJ42 asked in an earlier post what the club could do more of to be in touch with the 'heartland'.

It may have been symbolic, but the integration of 'good St Kilda people' into the club under the early days of RB/GT was unmistakable. They wanted to embrace the history of the club as well as set a sucessful course for the future.

Now I am not a GT/RB worshipper - I am a St Kilda fan. But I appreciate many of the good things they did, and I see no reason why we can't adopt many of their philosophies.

I liked the way that when Shane Warne was kicked out of cricket for a year, the first bloke on the phone was GT, inviting him to come back to the club to get involved. I like that Allan Jeans was invited back to the club to take a training session. Now both, celebrities or not, are Saints man and it was a sign that the club cared about its own.

Another ex-player, Rod Owen (correct me if I'm wrong), was in all sorts of strife. But RB stepped in to give a hand. It was kind of like the club had stopped trying to 'shed' itself of its past; it wanted to embrace St Kilda - the good and bad - and show that it would not affect our future success.

I liked that the club actively invited supporters to training. They offered them BBQs and giveaway and made the players accessible to the fans. They encouraged you to hang about in the social club afterwards.

I liked how the Social Club post-match operated in the Victory Room, even if I preferred the Social Club of Moorabbin and Waverley. Now I really, really couldn't be stuffed going in there. It just feels like money-making vehicle for the club.

I miss that I can't get my Social Club walk-up tickets on level one and sit with the different groups of mates I have in there. However, while the club didn't hesitate to dump that group, I do accept that our increased popularity as a football club has perhaps let to the abolition of that area.

I don't understand why the club didn't move heaven and earth from the start to back the Moorabbin Wing. Instead, they were initially cagey and somewhat suspicious, as were TD managment. Things are better now, but only because the fans kept chipping away.

As supporters, we used to get honest, open and direct feedback from Brian Waldron. Now we seem to be fed an overwhelming glut of half-truths and misguided snippets of information.

The club was once the media's best friend. We became open, honest and we had what seemed like three years of excessively positive media coverage. How good does it feel to open the paper and see a good story about the Saints? Conversely, how disappointing is it to open the paper and see something negative? When the chips were 'up', it felt like we were a club on the go and things were happening - a great way to invite sponsors and new members into the club.

I don't like that the new administration has abandoned Moorabbin. When you listen to their arguments, it can pretty much be traced back to the fact that personal squabbles (on both sides, not just ours). We should never have let this happen. Now the fans are being cheated out of a link with the homeland, and instead have been given a facility so far away that nobody can get too. Worse than that, they've told us how lucky we are - what do they think we are, stupid?

I don't like how the club has handled our ticketing changes. See Joffaboy's posts for further information.

I don't like that the club overlooked Ben Cousins (not to drag it up, but hear me out). I think, more than anything, they feared a member/sponsor backlash that was never going to come. I think the proof is in the pudding; Richmond's member/sponsor figures are going gangbusters and we could have had that too, but the club wasn't in touch with the majority of supporters, who - quite frankly - took it for granted that he was coming.

===

I don't think you can blame the club for Ross Lyon's choice of players or playing style. However, that he has an OTT defensive style does contribute to the notion we are an uninspired and boring team.

I'm not sure who is to 'blame' for all of this, if it is a matter of blame.

I was - and continue to be - a big believer in the Footy First team. They came along at the right time and came with the promise we needed.

However, sometimes it's the little things that count - and the above is mostly a collection of those. They are the things that make you feel like you belong. That St Kilda is more than just a collection of individuals; that we are a club, in every sense of the word, and that we - as supporters - feel it.

We give a lot of time, money and emotion to our club. It's daily for me, and I imagine, many others. But I want more than just 11 home matches. I want the club to be really a club. I want this to feel like it is my club, not just a group of professionals seeking their next pay cheque.

As it stands, it's not hard to feel disconnected from the footy club right now. And that's not a good thing, particuarly after we've just come off a preliminary final.

And I'm no less of a supporter because I feel this way. Do I embrace change? No - I embrace the right change. Not to pull GT up again, but why did so many embrace his change? Becuase it was the righ change.

Change, for changes sake, is not good. This club must strive to be the best it can on the field - that makes us all happy - but it must never forget that while success, and players, come and go, the fans are here.

And if you treat them right, they'll be here forever, as will the generations after.

My sentiments 100%

You have a good read on how most of us are feeling...

Keep up the good work..

Dont' worry efc , Some people just "dont" get it, maybe they cant

[WayneJudson42]

On this thread there's only a handful who have agreed with you and Rodge. If there is more, then they should become more vocal about it.

Actually, just looking back through the past few pages, I'm surprised there are so many people agreeing - or who at least see some merit in parts of what RF and others have been saying.

Doesn't seem to be a lot of people agreeing with the club, except for you, Magic and degruch.

And it's interesting, quite a few people actually missed his point - they just think RF is bored with the Saints, which isn't what he's saying at all.

There's definitely a feeling out there that the club could be doing more. Interesting.

Whee did I agree with the club?? I'm trying to be nice, dude. But seriously. Stop miss representing me.

I never stated I agree with the club. I simply stated that I am emotionally detached enough not to let it get me down.

It appears that you have me in your sights and want to pick an argument.

Get the facts right. FFS.

Once again, you make general assumptions like "it appears"... just like your Cosuins rant where you didn't come up with facts.

[evertonfc]

Haven't you ever done something to upset someone, and didn't realize it until it was pointed out?

It appears you don't seem to have faith in the club's ability to read the mood of its supporters?

I have faith in Footy First - I did vote for them after all - that they'll hear us.

When elected, they promised to represent us as supporters, so I look forward to seeing what they can come up with off their own bat.

I never stated I agree with the club. I simply stated that I am emotionally detached enough not to let it get me down.

Well, some of us are emotionally attached, and want our club to be the best it can be.

We give our money, we deserve something for it. If you're emotionally detached...can I ask, why bother?

And why do you get so worked up on here?

It appears that you have me in your sights and want to pick an argument.

Get the facts right. FFS.

Don't get too excited champ.

Just so long as what you're posting is not something a mod should have to worry about, you can post what you like.

I can't ever recall having too many objections with you before. In this thread you seem like a bit of a angry-ant type, but I think I and the others who've been here for a similar amount of time don't get too worried by the odd spot of that.

[WayneJudson42]

Haven't you ever done something to upset someone, and didn't realize it until it was pointed out?

It appears you don't seem to have faith in the club's ability to read the mood of its supporters?

I have faith in Footy First - I did vote for them after all - that they'll hear us.

When elected, they promised to represent us as supporters, so I look forward to seeing what they can come up with off their own bat.

yep, no problem. Leave it to others to do.

So why is it ok for you to show faith, yet if I do it, I'm defending the club?

[evertonfc]

Haven't you ever done something to upset someone, and didn't realize it until it was pointed out?

It appears you don't seem to have faith in the club's ability to read the mood of its supporters?

I have faith in Footy First - I did vote for them after all - that they'll hear us.

When elected, they promised to represent us as supporters, so I look forward to seeing what they can come up with off their own bat.

yep, no problem. Leave it to others to do.

So why is it ok for you to show faith, yet if I do it, I'm defending the club?

Since you don't like the phrase 'defending the club' (I don't know why, because that's what you're doing), I'll let you put it in your own words then.

How would you describe your stance?

We've put up our thoughts. Some of it is more feeling-based than factual, but none of it is without a base. And so what if some of it is based on a feeling? Football clubs are emotional places. You can't measure everything; if you could, footy would be a boring, unemotional game. If we feel like the club isn't embracing its supporter base, that's a tough thing to quantify. But show some respect for the supporters who say that - they wouldn't do it without reason.

We're saying it not because we're whingers, but because we care about this club being the best that it can be.

[degruch]

I'm no tribal supporter - I come from a family of Sandgropers who followed North until the Weagles came along - and I'm no fanatic, but I'm not upset by the current management, playing style or pre-season jumper.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the club to be the best that it can be.

If we didn't love it so much, we wouldn't care.

I agree Ev, but it's hardly black and white 'point'. Rodge and JB are talking about their FEELINGS, it's an emotional issue for them...it just seems to me that too much of this stems from the fact that the club is no longer what it was. It's true that St Kilda isn't a little suburban club any more, it hasn't been for some time, and it never will be again...the club is a corporate entity in a national league.

However, there is still enough St Kilda in St Kilda for me, and I'm more enthused than ever about the club moving forward...that's just me though. It's sad to see that some are tired (or even pissed off) of the way the club is, whether it be its presensce, demeanour or style, but it's not the first time the club has seemed stand-offish in its history.

So, I can't say it hasn't all gone to s***, if that's the way some supporters feel, but I wouldn't call that a point other people need to get. I wonder whether its easier for interstate supporters to just sit back and enjoy the club from afar, and whether it's easy for you guys over in Melbourne to get too close to the club, and thus, a bit 'hypersensitive' about it sometimes?

The only point I've seen on here that I truly agree with is, if you think there's a problem, only you can do something about it. Kick back for a while and give footy a break, or get down to the AGM and put your opinion to the club directly...they're not going to get excited about this thread on its own, even though maybe they should???

[evertonfc]

I'm no tribal supporter - I come from a family of Sandgropers who followed North until the Weagles came along - and I'm no fanatic, but I'm not upset by the current management, playing style or pre-season jumper.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the club to be the best that it can be.

If we didn't love it so much, we wouldn't care.

I agree Ev, but it's hardly black and white 'point'. Rodge and JB are talking about their FEELINGS, it's an emotional issue for them...it just seems to me that too much of this stems from the fact that the club is no longer what it was. It's true that St Kilda isn't a little suburban club any more, it hasn't been for some time, and it never will be again...the club is a corporate entity in a national league.

Quite a fair post, degruch.

It all depends on perspective and how you're willing to view change.

My perspective is that even though the club is a "corporate entity in a national league", it should be doing whatever it can to protect its "customers".

I believe in change, when it happens for the better. That's why I voted FF.

But I also believing in speaking up if you think there's something the club can do better. They all read this site, and I know they'll all be reading this thread.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[rodgerfox]

Football clubs are emotional places. You can't measure everything; if you could, footy would be a boring, unemotional game. If we feel like the club isn't embracing its supporter base, that's a tough thing to quantify. But show some respect for the supporters who say that - they wouldn't do it without reason.

Keep in mind also that the AFL and the clubs emotionally blackmail supporters every year to buy memberships.

They literally claim that if you're a supporter who isn't paid up, you're not really a supporter. They've even made that somewhat of a popular fact over time. Apparently clubs need us to buy memberships to survive. If we don't buy a membership, we're letting our club down.


So people can't then turn around and claim it's unfair to put blame on the club for being emotional about it. They play that card in the first place.

[degruch]

I agree Ev, but it's hardly black and white 'point'. Rodge and JB are talking about their FEELINGS, it's an emotional issue for them...it just seems to me that too much of this stems from the fact that the club is no longer what it was. It's true that St Kilda isn't a little suburban club any more, it hasn't been for some time, and it never will be again...the club is a corporate entity in a national league.

Quite a fair post, degruch.

It all depends on perspective and how you're willing to view change.

My perspective is that even though the club is a "corporate entity in a national league", it should be doing whatever it can to protect its "customers".

I believe in change, when it happens for the better. That's why I voted FF.

But I also believing in speaking up if you think there's something the club can do better. They all read this site, and I know they'll all be reading this thread.

It will be interesting to see what happens.[/quote]

Well, I hope for the sake of the 'disenfranchised' supporters, that they do too. Your points above re: social club, training invites, BBQ's, give-aways, etc. are all very valid...I can't see that any of these would hurt the club in any way if they were reinstated. However, on the club's side, they have been belted from pillar to post over everything under the sun by some of its supporters of the last few years, so I'd be taking complaints about it's 'vibe' with a pinch of salt too, if I was them.

Rodge was right when he (I think) stated earlier that Eddie does a great job empowering his army of toothless maggots to believe that they ARE the Collingwood FC. Personally, I feel like part of the Saints Army every time I go to a game and see another supporter in red, white and black...after all, we're the coolest looking and most attractive bunch of supporters in the league.

[WayneJudson42]

Haven't you ever done something to upset someone, and didn't realize it until it was pointed out?

It appears you don't seem to have faith in the club's ability to read the mood of its supporters?

I have faith in Footy First - I did vote for them after all - that they'll hear us.

When elected, they promised to represent us as supporters, so I look forward to seeing what they can come up with off their own bat.

yep, no problem. Leave it to others to do.

So why is it ok for you to show faith, yet if I do it, I'm defending the club?

Since you don't like the phrase 'defending the club' (I don't know why, because that's what you're doing), I'll let you put it in your own words then.

How would you describe your stance?

We've put up our thoughts. Some of it is more feeling-based than factual, but none of it is without a base. And so what if some of it is based on a feeling? Football clubs are emotional places. You can't measure everything; if you could, footy would be a boring, unemotional game. If we feel like the club isn't embracing its supporter base, that's a tough thing to quantify. But show some respect for the supporters who say that - they wouldn't do it without reason.

We're saying it not because we're whingers, but because we care about this club being the best that it can be.

Champ? Now that's condescending. Keep it nice.

Let's keep it real. Go back and read the conversation between Rodger and me, I think on page 5 or 6. He stated and I agree that we are pretty much on the same page on this matter.

Can you do that? Great.

I'm not defending the club, but I do have faith in what it's doing. So we can diasgree on this if you wish. In all 38 years, I've really felt like a number, and I continue to follow the club because I choose to, and it satisfies certain personal needs (for want of a better expression).

I was happy to vote for FF because the previous Prenz became redundant as did GT. So I'll let them do their job for their elected term. Then I'll make my call accordingly.

I love the club. Once again, read my posts as per above and why I follow it.

I also have different priorities in life, so footy would barely make top 10 atm.

I respect yours and everyone's views on the topic, although I may not wholeheartedly agree with them.

So in this respect, I cannot be more open and clear with you.

Here's where I get peeved...

I'm sick of the abuse, name calling and innuendo that some of the flogs on this forum direct at Greg, Fraser, RL and some of the players.

Bottom line: in life, I have 2 options when confroned wityh a challenge... I can either be proactive and seek to overcome it... or I can be reactive, point the finger and hope that someone is listening.

And it appears that the many of the posters fall into the latter category. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

Where you and I differ is that I'd write a letter and if they ignore it, then I'd say F*** u Jack and move on. But at least I gave it a shot and will never die wondering.

That's my life attitude in a nutshell.

[saintbrat]

My sentiments 100%

You have a good read on how most of us are feeling...

Keep up the good work..

Dont' worry efc , Some people just "dont" get it, maybe they cant

I may or may not agree with some or none of what has been said and posted
but I do object to being included in a 'get' or 'don't get' group
just because someone comes from a differant perspective to you does NOT mean they don't get it-

I object to having to 'agree with' or being included as 'agreeing with'- or that SS or any group is 'one in ' all in'-
as regulalrly stated by many on here- everyone is entitled to their opinion and most have reasons for it.
just because some are not as vocal or a clear in putting their thoughts together- or persistant............. posting and reposting the same stance in a thread- does not mean their contribution should be undervalued. several are having the discussion here but that is only a few of the 2,400+ who are registered members.

I have a query for those of you who are feeling disenfranchised...... have you actually done anything about letting the club know this- apart from posting it here-
have you posted to the official channels?
have you asked archie
have you e-mailed archie
have you written to the club with concerns or suggestions.
have you endeavoured to contact club or board.

not rocking the boat but stating feelings /objections/ alternatives- or offering yourselves or options.

whilst we realise that some from the club do read and possibly post here- it is not an official channel-

[evertonfc]

Where you and I differ is that I'd write a letter and if they ignore it, then I'd say F*** u Jack and move on. But at least I gave it a shot and will never die wondering.

The club will be aware of what we're saying - so no letters are required. I've already stated that.

If they choose to ignore it, that's their call. And it will say something about how they operate. If they choose to do something about it, fantastic.

That's it, really. I haven't got a lot to add to the matter.

All we can do now is wait and see. Sure, if it gets a lot worse, I'll probably stick my hand up at the AGM and say something. I've done it before (on other topics) and I'll do it again.

But I guess the club could consider this a little warning that they wouldn't want things to get much worse, or they risk more and more people walking away - and we don't want that.

We need all the members we can get.

[WayneJudson42]

My sentiments 100%

You have a good read on how most of us are feeling...

Keep up the good work..

Dont' worry efc , Some people just "dont" get it, maybe they cant

I may or may not agree with some or none of what has been said and posted
but I do object to being included in a 'get' or 'don't get' group
just because someone comes from a differant perspective to you does NOT mean they don't get it-

I object to having to 'agree with' or being included as 'agreeing with'- or that SS or any group is 'one in ' all in'-
as regulalrly stated by many on here- everyone is entitled to their opinion and most have reasons for it.
just because some are not as vocal or a clear in putting their thoughts together- or persistant............. posting and reposting the same stance in a thread- does not mean their contribution should be undervalued. several are having the discussion here but that is only a few of the 2,400+ who are registered members.

I have a query for those of you who are feeling disenfranchised...... have you actually done anything about letting the club know this- apart from posting it here-
have you posted to the official channels?
have you asked archie
have you e-mailed archie
have you written to the club with concerns or suggestions.
have you endeavoured to contact club or board.

not rocking the boat but stating feelings /objections/ alternatives- or offering yourselves or options.

whilst we realise that some from the club do read and possibly post here- it is not an official channel-

Well put, and with far more class than I'd ever do.

It's funny that if you disagree then you don't "get it". But it's ok for people who accuse you of not "getting it" to disagree.

Once again: You have a good read on how most of us are feeling...

Who are "most of us" and on who's behalf do you represent? I get it totally, but I'm not part of the "most of us".

"Most of us" would suggest that at least 15,000+ members feel the same way.

Where can I buy one of those Emotion-O-Meters from?

[joffaboy]

We've put up our thoughts. Some of it is more feeling-based than factual, but none of it is without a base. And so what if some of it is based on a feeling? Football clubs are emotional places. You can't measure everything; if you could, footy would be a boring, unemotional game. If we feel like the club isn't embracing its supporter base, that's a tough thing to quantify. But show some respect for the supporters who say that - they wouldn't do it without reason.

Thats the whole point. Football is an emotional game and the actions of this admin especially the alienation of long time supporters by their extortion is taking the emotion out of many a supporter.

I'm not defending the club, but I do have faith in what it's doing. So we can diasgree on this if you wish. In all 38 years, I've really felt like a number, and I continue to follow the club because I choose to, and it satisfies certain personal needs (for want of a better expression).

You haven't been around too long WJ42 but many on here can vouch I have defended the club against critisism for years. But enough is enough and the latest round of money grabbing was the final straw.

I was happy to vote for FF because the previous Prenz became redundant as did GT. So I'll let them do their job for their elected term. Then I'll make my call accordingly.

Well i wasn't and every time i asked - "Where is the money coming from?" to fund all this new great spending - I got howled down. We now know where the money is coming from - the cash cow long term supporter - that who. Well not this little black duck. they have lost $400 from me due to their exploitation and heavy handedness.

I love the club. Once again, read my posts as per above and why I follow it.

I dont love the club - I love the team and the colours. The club, under this admin is a disgrace.

I also have different priorities in life, so footy would barely make top 10 atm.

Same here, but we are on a footy forum. A Saints forum to be exact.

I respect yours and everyone's views on the topic, although I may not wholeheartedly agree with them.

Good thing the topic isn't Christmas then.

I'm sick of the abuse, name calling and innuendo that some of the flogs on this forum direct at Greg, Fraser, RL and some of the players.

Well if they didn't c**k up and ripp off the punter because they overspent they wouldn't cop it. I personally have nothing agianst them but they are wrecking the club. Not Lyon he is going Ok, but the other two are turning the club into a shambles.

Bottom line: in life, I have 2 options when confroned wityh a challenge... I can either be proactive and seek to overcome it... or I can be reactive, point the finger and hope that someone is listening.

Why limit yourself to only two options. Why not be reactive and withdraw your financial support for a club that has lost its way?

And it appears that the many of the posters fall into the latter category. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

Yes you could be wrong.

Where you and I differ is that I'd write a letter and if they ignore it, then I'd say F*** u Jack and move on. But at least I gave it a shot and will never die wondering.

That's my life attitude in a nutshell.

Bully for you.

Wouldn't it tell the club that since 2006 our membership has been on the decline? That is passive protesting. Vote with your feet. Use the only power these money hungry clowns understand. Withdrawal of discretionary funds.

And many have done so.

[degruch]

Where you and I differ is that I'd write a letter and if they ignore it, then I'd say F*** u Jack and move on. But at least I gave it a shot and will never die wondering.

The club will be aware of what we're saying - so no letters are required. I've already stated that.

Even still, I'd be sending letters to reinforce your feelings, rather than hope they read this thread.

[WayneJudson42]

We've put up our thoughts. Some of it is more feeling-based than factual, but none of it is without a base. And so what if some of it is based on a feeling? Football clubs are emotional places. You can't measure everything; if you could, footy would be a boring, unemotional game. If we feel like the club isn't embracing its supporter base, that's a tough thing to quantify. But show some respect for the supporters who say that - they wouldn't do it without reason.

Thats the whole point. Football is an emotional game and the actions of this admin especially the alienation of long time supporters by their extortion is taking the emotion out of many a supporter.

I'm not defending the club, but I do have faith in what it's doing. So we can diasgree on this if you wish. In all 38 years, I've really felt like a number, and I continue to follow the club because I choose to, and it satisfies certain personal needs (for want of a better expression).

You haven't been around too long WJ42 but many on here can vouch I have defended the club against critisism for years. But enough is enough and the latest round of money grabbing was the final straw.

Ive watched for while, and I'm pretty much up to speed as to thinks what. The potential to profile posters here is so obscenely easy, ity ain't funny. Once again, I empathise with you and you have a right to be p1ssed.

I was happy to vote for FF because the previous Prenz became redundant as did GT. So I'll let them do their job for their elected term. Then I'll make my call accordingly.

Well i wasn't and every time i asked - "Where is the money coming from?" to fund all this new great spending - I got howled down. We now know where the money is coming from - the cash cow long term supporter - that who. Well not this little black duck. they have lost $400 from me due to their exploitation and heavy handedness.

I never howled you down. Despite being a "comtrol freak" as you put it.

I love the club. Once again, read my posts as per above and why I follow it.

I dont love the club - I love the team and the colours. The club, under this admin is a disgrace.

Fair comment. I agree. But players represent the jumper and the club. Any friend of the players is a friend of mine. A bit like the in-laws. I don't think they've been there long enough to make the call IMO only.

I also have different priorities in life, so footy would barely make top 10 atm.

Same here, but we are on a footy forum. A Saints forum to be exact.

Really? I though this was the ABC. Ooops.

I respect yours and everyone's views on the topic, although I may not wholeheartedly agree with them.

Good thing the topic isn't Christmas then.

That was the best hand grenade I've thrown all year (ok it's only Jan). I'll take it as a compliment that you reacted like you did.

I'm sick of the abuse, name calling and innuendo that some of the flogs on this forum direct at Greg, Fraser, RL and some of the players.

Well if they didn't c**k up and ripp off the punter because they overspent they wouldn't cop it. I personally have nothing agianst them but they are wrecking the club. Not Lyon he is going Ok, but the other two are turning the club into a shambles.

Dude, can you back this upwith facts, or is it a guess?

Bottom line: in life, I have 2 options when confroned wityh a challenge... I can either be proactive and seek to overcome it... or I can be reactive, point the finger and hope that someone is listening.

Why limit yourself to only two options. Why not be reactive and withdraw your financial support for a club that has lost its way?

Actually, withdrwaing financial support is being pro-active. Even a pencil-head would know that.

And it appears that the many of the posters fall into the latter category. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

Yes you could be wrong.

You may be right... I may be crazy. But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for". Billy Joel.

Where you and I differ is that I'd write a letter and if they ignore it, then I'd say F*** u Jack and move on. But at least I gave it a shot and will never die wondering.

That's my life attitude in a nutshell.

Bully for you.

I think so, it's served me well through adversity.

Wouldn't it tell the club that since 2006 our membership has been on the decline? That is passive protesting. Vote with your feet. Use the only power these money hungry clowns understand. Withdrawal of discretionary funds.

And many have done so.

So, they obviously don't get it, then do they? So maybe my idea of a untied front isn't so bad afterall?

2006 & 2008 were run by your mate Butter Brain. He sacked the markeing guy that turned our memberships around. Don't blame Greg for that one. The question is: What is the current admin doing to turn it around (rhetorical. I know what your answer wil be.)

[degruch]

I love the club. Once again, read my posts as per above and why I follow it.

I dont love the club - I love the team and the colours. The club, under this admin is a disgrace.

I always thought RB was a disgrace (actually, a 'blow-waved embarrassment' was how I used to discribe him), but it didn't turn me off the club (team et al) as a whole.

[rodgerfox]

I have a query for those of you who are feeling disenfranchised...... have you actually done anything about letting the club know this- apart from posting it here-
have you posted to the official channels?
have you asked archie
have you e-mailed archie
have you written to the club with concerns or suggestions.
have you endeavoured to contact club or board.

I don't care enough to do anything more than voice some thoughts on here.

I'm not bitter or angry about what the club has become. Disappointed to an extent for sure.

[Mr Magic]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of people agreeing with the club, except for you, Magic and degruch.

I'm not sure why some posters feel the need to misrepresent other posters pov to further their own point?


Just to make sure my memory wasn't failing me i went back to the beginning of this thread to see what I had actually posted?

My first post was on page 3 where I responded to degruch with a post questioning rodger's motive in putting up this thread.

My second post was on page 4 where I responded to rodger's allegation that the fans were showing less passion at games

My third post was on page 3 where I replied to rodger that the membership figure he had posted was incorrect according to SaintBrat

My fourth post was on page 4 where I replied to rodger's allegation that the Club were liars.

My 5th post was on page 5 where I replied to SaintBrat about rodger's 'Club lying' allegation.

My 6th post was on page 5 where I replied to SaintBrat re the membership total

My 7th post was on page 5 where I complimented WayneJudson42 on his songwriting ability.

Can you please show me where I have actually posted (in the context of this thread) what it is you have asserted I have - 'agreeing with the club'.

For the record - how they have implemented the status change of L2 reserved seats has been an unmitigated disaster. At the very least they should have consulted with the affected members and come up with a mutually agreeable timetable to implement the change.

The biggest and most lucrative income base the Club has is their members/reserve seat holders and maybe if they provided as much 'customer service' to them as they seem to be doing for their 'sponsors' they may get better results?

[evertonfc]

Some of you seem very touchy about being seen to be agreeing with the club or defending it.

So I retract that if that is not what you are intending to do.

[rodgerfox]

My first post was on page 3 where I responded to degruch with a post questioning rodger's motive in putting up this thread.

My second post was on page 4 where I responded to rodger's allegation that the fans were showing less passion at games

My third post was on page 3 where I replied to rodger that the membership figure he had posted was incorrect according to SaintBrat

My fourth post was on page 4 where I replied to rodger's allegation that the Club were liars.

My 5th post was on page 5 where I replied to SaintBrat about rodger's 'Club lying' allegation.

Ummm, I think I see a pattern developing here?

[degruch]

My first post was on page 3 where I responded to degruch with a post questioning rodger's motive in putting up this thread.

My second post was on page 4 where I responded to rodger's allegation that the fans were showing less passion at games

My third post was on page 3 where I replied to rodger that the membership figure he had posted was incorrect according to SaintBrat

My fourth post was on page 4 where I replied to rodger's allegation that the Club were liars.

My 5th post was on page 5 where I replied to SaintBrat about rodger's 'Club lying' allegation.

Ummm, I think I see a pattern developing here?

You did start this you know...did you think you'd get 7-8 pages out of it!?! It is pre-season I guess.

[tweedaletomanning]

My sentiments 100%

You have a good read on how most of us are feeling...

Keep up the good work..

Dont' worry efc , Some people just "dont" get it, maybe they cant

I may or may not agree with some or none of what has been said and posted
but I do object to being included in a 'get' or 'don't get' group
just because someone comes from a differant perspective to you does NOT mean they don't get it-

I object to having to 'agree with' or being included as 'agreeing with'- or that SS or any group is 'one in ' all in'-
as regulalrly stated by many on here- everyone is entitled to their opinion and most have reasons for it.
just because some are not as vocal or a clear in putting their thoughts together- or persistant............. posting and reposting the same stance in a thread- does not mean their contribution should be undervalued. several are having the discussion here but that is only a few of the 2,400+ who are registered members.

I have a query for those of you who are feeling disenfranchised...... have you actually done anything about letting the club know this- apart from posting it here-
have you posted to the official channels?
have you asked archie
have you e-mailed archie
have you written to the club with concerns or suggestions.
have you endeavoured to contact club or board.

not rocking the boat but stating feelings /objections/ alternatives- or offering yourselves or options.

whilst we realise that some from the club do read and possibly post here- it is not an official channel-

Well put, and with far more class than I'd ever do.

It's funny that if you disagree then you don't "get it". But it's ok for people who accuse you of not "getting it" to disagree.

Once again: You have a good read on how most of us are feeling...

Who are "most of us" and on who's behalf do you represent? I get it totally, but I'm not part of the "most of us".

"Most of us" would suggest that at least 15,000+ members feel the same way.

Where can I buy one of those Emotion-O-Meters from?

Still NOT getting it..

Oh well thanks for proving my point...