Where have the Saints gone?

[degruch]

So, the club is supposed to select more flamboyant players to maintain your interest then? Geez, some of the guys listed above haven't even played a game for the Saints yet and they're already dull and passionless!

I'm sorry you guys are a bit over it, but I don't think there's anything anyone can do about your waining interests, apart from yourselves. Blaming the club and expecting them to tailor their entire operations to your desires is a bit far fetched.

This whole thread is missing the point.

[joffaboy]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Anyone remember here in late 2003 early 2004?

Remember the lids coming off?

Where is that passion and enthusiasm now?

Gone. because we know we are not up to it and haven't a chance to beat the likes of Hawthorn or Geelong

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

Players come and go, I dont have an issue with that.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

I must admit that never before the past two years, I have been bored when we are winning. Just cant get into it. Doesn't seem like my team and my club.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

Treating the members with contempt. $125 more a season fro L2 seats for one less game a year. Doesn't matter if you have sat there since 2000, doesn't matter if you are a family of four and it will cost you $600 more a season, doesn't matter if you are on a fixed income and cant afford it - pay up or piss off.

This is the attitude, F*** the loyal supporter. Unless you are a cash cow, your loyalty and passion is not wanted. Only cashed up supporters welcome. You poor scum can just F*** off and die. Couldn't care less if you lost your job in the recession, couldn't give a hoot if you cant afford it, wouldn't care if you have stood in the rain at Moorabin and watch the team get flogged by twenty goals, couldn't give a fig if you went to game in the rain and cold and watch the Saints hardly win a game, who cares about your stupid loyalty, we are only loyal to your $$$$$$.

Well stick it up your arse STKFC. As MSG said you play boring unattractive footy that still cant win a flag, andexpect us to pay more to see it.

Passion killers are the STKFC headed by Westaway and the mercenary Frasier.

[WayneJudson42]

And what specifically, is the club doing differently towards supporters?

How exactly (apart from markeitng the obvious) did RB and GT express their love for you in days gone by?

Yes you can argue about how we play, and that our list has changed. This has more do with lost opportunities IMO, rather than how Westaway and co is running the place.

LOL, how passionate was Penny? Gave it away IIRC. Too funny.

Unless I can see specifics, then I'd suggest that it all comes down to an individual's perception.

[St Fidelius]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Anyone remember here in late 2003 early 2004?

Remember the lids coming off?

Where is that passion and enthusiasm now?

Gone. because we know we are not up to it and haven't a chance to beat the likes of Hawthorn or Geelong

I am fairly sure we did beat the Hawks in 2008 by FIVE goals in one match.

and now you say that this year we haven't a chance to beat them

[WayneJudson42]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Anyone remember here in late 2003 early 2004?

Remember the lids coming off?

Where is that passion and enthusiasm now?

Gone. because we know we are not up to it and haven't a chance to beat the likes of Hawthorn or Geelong

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

Players come and go, I dont have an issue with that.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

I must admit that never before the past two years, I have been bored when we are winning. Just cant get into it. Doesn't seem like my team and my club.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

Treating the members with contempt. $125 more a season fro L2 seats for one less game a year. Doesn't matter if you have sat there since 2000, doesn't matter if you are a family of four and it will cost you $600 more a season, doesn't matter if you are on a fixed income and cant afford it - pay up or piss off.

This is the attitude, F*** the loyal supporter. Unless you are a cash cow, your loyalty and passion is not wanted. Only cashed up supporters welcome. You poor scum can just F*** off and die. Couldn't care less if you lost your job in the recession, couldn't give a hoot if you cant afford it, wouldn't care if you have stood in the rain at Moorabin and watch the team get flogged by twenty goals, couldn't give a fig if you went to game in the rain and cold and watch the Saints hardly win a game, who cares about your stupid loyalty, we are only loyal to your $$$$$$.

Well stick it up your arse STKFC. As MSG said you play boring unattractive footy that still cant win a flag, andexpect us to pay more to see it.

Passion killers are the STKFC headed by Westaway and the mercenary Frasier.

JB, I have a lot of time for your posts... but you're starting to sound more and more like B4E.

[rodgerfox]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

This is on the money.

People's passion for footy comes and goes - often comes when the team is winning, and goes when they're not.

However the love of the club keeps them on the hook. Keeps them coming back. Keeps them forking out the cash.

The problem now, is that there isn't much to love about the club. To many, it doesn't feel like the club at all.


So when people do have their dips in passion, there's no guarantee that they will be back.

I think the club and the AFL rely on people's passion and love for their clubs. The Saints in particular need to be careful about this as

So what's the solution?

And what specifically isn't there to love about the club?

And who exactly are the "many" that you speak on behalf of?

I thought I'd covered that with the membership figures.

You need to go to a Saints game to see how limp the crowd is. They don't even appear to care. It's almost as if they're there for something to do on a Saturday arvo - not to passionately support and barrack for their club.

[WayneJudson42]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

This is on the money.

People's passion for footy comes and goes - often comes when the team is winning, and goes when they're not.

However the love of the club keeps them on the hook. Keeps them coming back. Keeps them forking out the cash.

The problem now, is that there isn't much to love about the club. To many, it doesn't feel like the club at all.


So when people do have their dips in passion, there's no guarantee that they will be back.

I think the club and the AFL rely on people's passion and love for their clubs. The Saints in particular need to be careful about this as

So what's the solution?

And what specifically isn't there to love about the club?

And who exactly are the "many" that you speak on behalf of?

I thought I'd covered that with the membership figures.

You need to go to a Saints game to see how limp the crowd is. They don't even appear to care. It's almost as if they're there for something to do on a Saturday arvo - not to passionately support and barrack for their club.

So you know for a fact as to why membership numbers fluctuate do you?

Ok, so playing style is a factor for your sadness. But people still keep turning up. Why?

Like I said: What do you propose to do about it? What's the solution?

[rodgerfox]

Unless I can see specifics, then I'd suggest that it all comes down to an individual's perception.

Or 4000 individual's perceptions if you look at the membership figures.

[rodgerfox]

So you know for a fact as to why membership numbers fluctuate do you?

Ok, so playing style is a factor for your sadness. But people still keep turning up. Why?

Like I said: What do you propose to do about it? What's the solution?

Playing style a factor for my sadness?

If you expect me to respond to you, at least try to stop making stuff up.

[Mr Magic]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

This is on the money.

People's passion for footy comes and goes - often comes when the team is winning, and goes when they're not.

However the love of the club keeps them on the hook. Keeps them coming back. Keeps them forking out the cash.

The problem now, is that there isn't much to love about the club. To many, it doesn't feel like the club at all.


So when people do have their dips in passion, there's no guarantee that they will be back.

I think the club and the AFL rely on people's passion and love for their clubs. The Saints in particular need to be careful about this as

So what's the solution?

And what specifically isn't there to love about the club?

And who exactly are the "many" that you speak on behalf of?

I thought I'd covered that with the membership figures.

You need to go to a Saints game to see how limp the crowd is. They don't even appear to care. It's almost as if they're there for something to do on a Saturday arvo - not to passionately support and barrack for their club.

That's only your opinion.

Qute frankly I don't see much change in passion from the people sitting around me in the past 2 years than from any other time since we moved to Telstra Dome.
To compare atmosphere and 'displayed passion' with days gone by when we played at other venues is, IMHO, not valid.
Each different venue has its own different atmosphere.

You want passion?
All you had to do was to go to any of our Finals matches and you would have seen Sainters by their tens of thousands being passionate and proud.

Maybe you're giving off such a 'negative vibe' to those around you that it's become infectious on them?

[degruch]

You need to go to a Saints game to see how limp the crowd is. They don't even appear to care. It's almost as if they're there for something to do on a Saturday arvo - not to passionately support and barrack for their club.

Typical post-1997 fans...strange that (as evident by this thread) Saints supporters can share so many similarities to Crows supporters.

[St Fidelius]

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

I must admit that never before the past two years, I have been bored when we are winning. Just cant get into it. Doesn't seem like my team and my club.

So joffa, are you blaming Westaway and Fraser for our style of football as well

Or is this just another opportunity to sink the boot in at them, about anything and everything

[WayneJudson42]

So you know for a fact as to why membership numbers fluctuate do you?

Ok, so playing style is a factor for your sadness. But people still keep turning up. Why?

Like I said: What do you propose to do about it? What's the solution?

Playing style a factor for my sadness?

If you expect me to respond to you, at least try to stop making stuff up.

HAve you lost your passion because of the palying style?

[Mr Magic]

Having said that however, our lack in membership .

So this must be FACT based on your past statements.

Please post the St Kilda Membership Numbers from the "passion years" which exceed say the membership numbers from say the "passionless" 2008.

"The optimism that is surrounding St Kilda heading into the 2006 season is translating into an off-field boom for the club as long-suffering Saints fans clamour to become members. With the start of the pre-season still more than a week away, the Saints already have more than 21,000 members, around 2000 more than the same time last year. And with 1000 additional members usually equating to around $100,000 in additional revenue, it is a huge boost to the once struggling club - whose financial performance off the field has improved just as much as its on-field performance in recent years. Such is the growth in St Kilda membership in recent years that this year the club signed up some 18,000 members before Christmas, which was more than its entire membership of 17,696 in 2002."


We currently have 14708 members.

Well, well down.

Pre-Season 2006 we were coming off a Top 4 finish and a Prelim appearance. We had over 18,000 members before Xmas.

Pre-Season 2009 we are too. We now have under 15,000 members.

Actually according to SaintBrat, the figure on Dec 27th was 17,500 - see the 'sticky Membership Thread'.

[rodgerfox]

Like I said: What do you propose to do about it? What's the solution?

The solution is completely simple.

Like anything in life when you want the best out of people, you need to make them feel valued.

Children, partners, employees, teammates - sporting club members.

The real area where Eddie Maguire excelled until just recently, was getting the Collingwood actually believing that they are the 'Black and White Army' and not just a bunch of deluded ferals. They felt as members of the Black and White Army that they were the lifeblood of the club, and basically the team needed them there each week.

People who couldn't afford to brush their teeth, were buying memberships for their whole families.

What do the Saints members currently get? Apart from lies?

A recorded crackly voice message from Nathan Burke asking them to join up as members?? I bet most people hung up before even hearing it as they assumed it was an Indian call centre.

What else?

Anyone seen the annual report yet? Anyone know anything about anything happening at the club?

Does anyone know what anyone at the club actually does?


Quite simply, right now, supporters have to be happy to trust the club. Just hand over the cash and trust them that everything is under control.

That may Ok to some. However we're being asked to trust people we don't know. They aren't Saints people. They're footy people who were poached from other clubs.

Until trust is earnt by Drain, Lyon, Fraser etc. someone that the faithful already know needs to head up the publicity.

Nathan Burke or Andrew Thompson are the only option.


Supporters need to be given more 'inside info'. Occasionaly told something apart from '2 weeks' or 'he was 99% right to go last week but we just decided to rest him' etc. etc.

I know when Thomas took over, within the first month or so he noticed a small bunch of supporters that attended training each week. One night he went over there and met them all. He then took them with their kids into the rooms after training, intoriduced them to players and gave them a personal tour of the clubrooms and facilities. No big deal, and easy to do. But to those guys and their kids they would be members for life.

There's nothing worse then the old mushroom feeling. You know the one - kept in the dark and fed shiit.

You can only do that to people for so long.

[rodgerfox]

So you know for a fact as to why membership numbers fluctuate do you?

Ok, so playing style is a factor for your sadness. But people still keep turning up. Why?

Like I said: What do you propose to do about it? What's the solution?

Playing style a factor for my sadness?

If you expect me to respond to you, at least try to stop making stuff up.

HAve you lost your passion because of the palying style?

No.

Do you even read a word that I type? Or just jump on when you see my name and start responding blindly?

[saintbrat]

But MM_ what would they have been able to spend the afternoon- sunny, fine, holidays- doing if not having a roundaboutdiscussion on issues debated 6 dozen-( i may be under estimating) times before with the demarcation lines split along the same lines as before--

maybe it comes down to- knowing too much

when we didn't ask the questions and just went along it's all so much simpler....

[rodgerfox]

Actually according to SaintBrat, the figure on Dec 27th was 17,500 - see the 'sticky Membership Thread'.

Well the club either lied to me, or to Saintbrat.

[saintbrat]

Actually according to SaintBrat, the figure on Dec 27th was 17,500 - see the 'sticky Membership Thread'.

Well the club either lied to me, or to Saintbrat.

when did you ask them rodger?

this number was quoted to me from the number at the front desk as of the 27th Dec.

[Mr Magic]

Actually according to SaintBrat, the figure on Dec 27th was 17,500 - see the 'sticky Membership Thread'.

Well the club either lied to me, or to Saintbrat.[/quot

Of course they did!

They're no better than any poster on here who dares to disagree with your pov - liars all of them/us.

You don't think there's any other possible explanation other than they're liars?

[Mr Magic]

But MM_ what would they have been able to spend the afternoon- sunny, fine, holidays- doing if not having a roundaboutdiscussion on issues debated 6 dozen-( i may be under estimating) times before with the demarcation lines split along the same lines as before--

maybe it comes down to- knowing too much

when we didn't ask the questions and just went along it's all so much simpler....

Well it is the off-season and rodger wouild probably be finding it difficult to post a negative criticism (any criticism will normally do) whilst everyone is on summer holidays.

You can be sure as the sun comes up in the morning and sets in teh evening that rodger will find something to criticise/complain about.

I wasn't on here back in the 'glory days'(pre GT sacking) - was he posting in a similar fashion back then?
If so, who was he complaining about/criticising?

[WayneJudson42]

So you know for a fact as to why membership numbers fluctuate do you?

Ok, so playing style is a factor for your sadness. But people still keep turning up. Why?

Like I said: What do you propose to do about it? What's the solution?

Playing style a factor for my sadness?

If you expect me to respond to you, at least try to stop making stuff up.

HAve you lost your passion because of the palying style?

No.

Do you even read a word that I type? Or just jump on when you see my name and start responding blindly?

You need to go to a Saints game to see how limp the crowd is. They don't even appear to care. It's almost as if they're there for something to do on a Saturday arvo - not to passionately support and barrack for their club.

My question was in relation to the above generalisation.

With that said, instead of cr@pping on... get up and be proactive.

And you know for a fact that Lyon doesn't talk to supporters? I have found him quite aimicable on the times I've met him.

What proof do you have that the club lies to you (apart from injusry propoganda that every club does)?

Mate, if it's so bad... then go away until you rediscover your flame.

Judging by the topics and tones of your threads, you obviously have a dislike of RL and co. Whether this is GT related, or that you're a sad sack... I'm not too sure. Either way, all you bring up is negative and depressing.

This is who we have. If you don't like it... you have the option to stop following the club.

[HarveysDeciple]

Whilst my passion remains as strong as ever, I think it's good when fans voice their concerns, whatever they happen to be.

People can say whatever they like about the intent of the thread etc, but valid points have been made on all sides.

We all deep down still love the club, and come round 1 we will all be eagerly hoping for a victory, im sure even rodgerfox would agree with that.

I don't think the club will ever die, nor will my passion dissapear.

And we will challenge for a flag again, such is the nature of footy these days.

But in the meantime continue to voice concerns constructively...

Well done guys

[markp]

Passion ebbs and flows, and nostalgia can play tricks on you.

It's the start of summer ffs.... go for a swim down the beach, have some beers at the Espy, and soak it up.

I do agree the club could treat the fans a little less like mushrooms and a little more like family though (or at least stake-holders).... Westaway is the invisible man, and AD and his little puppet mate AA are the AFL anti-christs.

No one has mentioned the often-maligned CS yet either, which I think could use an injection of a little spirit and verve.... it seems a little lacking in the 18-35 bracket too.

Following a team fanatically is at core a futile and ridiculous pursuit... from that early age when you first 'choose' it, you have no control over how your team performs from week to week, or year to year... and yet your moods can hinge on those performances. It's not at all logical, and it's little wonder that people often drift away from it in favour of things they can control.

Any given year you can only ever really be sure the passion is still there when you see that first ball bounced and that first goal kicked.

[St Fidelius]

Passion ebbs and flows, and nostalgia can play tricks on you.

It's the start of summer ffs.... go for a swim down the beach, have some beers at the Espy, and soak it up.

I do agree the club could treat the fans a little less like mushrooms and a little more like family though (or at least stake-holders).... Westaway is the invisible man, and AD and his little puppet mate AA are the AFL anti-christs.

No one has mentioned the often-maligned CS yet either, which I think could use an injection of a little spirit and verve.... it seems a little lacking in the 18-35 bracket too.

Following a team fanatically is at core a futile and ridiculous pursuit... from that early age when you first 'choose' it, you have no control over how your team performs from week to week, or year to year... and yet your moods can hinge on those performances. It's not at all logical, and it's little wonder that people often drift away from it in favour of things they can control.

Any given year you can only ever really be sure the passion is still there when you see that first ball bounced and that first goal kicked.

agree to some extent with what you are saying, but the "treated like mushrooms, I feel needs more of an explanation.

Yes, I do agree that the treatment of "current 2nd level non social club reserved seats is just a disaster, with the fact that not all of those "ex 2008 reserved seat holders ever receiving any personal correspondence of the change.

This to me is absolutely p1ss poor from the Club, and I don't blame supporters venting their anger.

But if you are referring to the BC issue, that's a different story and one that is kept in house, like Collingwood has done.