Club or Entertainment?

[Saints43]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

[Ice Wolf]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

OMG the bastards, how dare they add value like that.

And also they have added the loyality program as well, plus what we get with our memberships now is a lot better than what we used to get. i.e the first hat I got as reserved seat member was the Bill Express hat with a saints logo, now we get a St Kilda hat with a small sponsors logo which is much better.

[joffaboy]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

So what? It wasn't an option for long time holders of reserved seats.

The club gave no option to these supporters - paid $125 more per seat for one reserved game less a year - or piss off.

Thats it - no respect for loyalty or financial situations or any type of social community that may have formed - just a cash grab by the greedy money hungry passionless suit CEO and his "business".

Oh BTW I was a SC member and a L2 reserve seat holder - wouldn't cost me a cent more.

It is the principle and the total lack of respect shown to long time paid up passionate members.

This club couldn't give a F*** about its members only how much you can pay.

I will still get a membership - but the minimum - no SC membership - no reserved seat. if we make the GF I will fork out a grand and get a ticket.

Hope Archie and Greg and the rest like all their new cashed up friends - I mean they have burnt many a loyal supporter in their quest for fast cash.

[degruch]

[markp]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

So what? It wasn't an option for long time holders of reserved seats.

The club gave no option to these supporters - paid $125 more per seat for one reserved game less a year - or piss off.

Thats it - no respect for loyalty or financial situations or any type of social community that may have formed - just a cash grab by the greedy money hungry passionless suit CEO and his "business".

Oh BTW I was a SC member and a L2 reserve seat holder - wouldn't cost me a cent more.

It is the principle and the total lack of respect shown to long time paid up passionate members.

This club couldn't give a F*** about its members only how much you can pay.

I will still get a membership - but the minimum - no SC membership - no reserved seat. if we make the GF I will fork out a grand and get a ticket.

Hope Archie and Greg and the rest like all their new cashed up friends - I mean they have burnt many a loyal supporter in their quest for fast cash.

They would have already factored in a percentage of reactions like yours, and determined it to be merely negligible collateral damage going forward into more lucrative revenue stream projections and outcomes.

[joffaboy]

They would have already factored in a percentage of reactions like yours, and determined it to be merely negligible collateral damage going forward into more lucrative revenue stream projections and outcomes.

Of course they have. And that is my whole point.

Also it doesn't make what I post any less valid. Moreso in fact.

[rodgerfox]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

OMG the bastards, how dare they add value like that.

And also they have added the loyality program as well, plus what we get with our memberships now is a lot better than what we used to get. i.e the first hat I got as reserved seat member was the Bill Express hat with a saints logo, now we get a St Kilda hat with a small sponsors logo which is much better.

Unlike others, it seems, I don't actually want anything from the club.

I don't expect to be cuddled, bribed or pampered.

That's not why I supported the Saints. It was unconditional. I didn't need anything in return.

It's just that whatever it was that I loved about the Saints, is gone.


Now the answer could well be, that it was just a matter of time anyway. When you turn 30, things change. Priorities change.

[St Fidelius]

It's just that whatever it was that I loved about the Saints, is gone.


Now the answer could well be, that it was just a matter of time anyway. When you turn 30, things change. Priorities change.

So, as far as you're concerned, is it the Clubs fault or is it just you??

[rodgerfox]

It's just that whatever it was that I loved about the Saints, is gone.


Now the answer could well be, that it was just a matter of time anyway. When you turn 30, things change. Priorities change.

So, as far as you're concerned, is it the Clubs fault or is it just you??

I don't really know.

This discussion has been interesting. I thought it was the club, but reading this and the other thread that was locked (not sure why) has made me think that it's probably just me.

[Banger2Plugger]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

So what? It wasn't an option for long time holders of reserved seats.

The club gave no option to these supporters - paid $125 more per seat for one reserved game less a year - or piss off.

Thats it - no respect for loyalty or financial situations or any type of social community that may have formed - just a cash grab by the greedy money hungry passionless suit CEO and his "business".

Oh BTW I was a SC member and a L2 reserve seat holder - wouldn't cost me a cent more.

It is the principle and the total lack of respect shown to long time paid up passionate members.

This club couldn't give a F*** about its members only how much you can pay.

I will still get a membership - but the minimum - no SC membership - no reserved seat. if we make the GF I will fork out a grand and get a ticket.

Hope Archie and Greg and the rest like all their new cashed up friends - I mean they have burnt many a loyal supporter in their quest for fast cash.

I would argue the club did give you a choice and you chose it. You had the choice to take up the new package at an additional cost - which many may have the finances to afford to do so - or review your own finances and take a lower grade of membership - you chose the lower grade of membership.

Yes I agree you are passionate - but you can't argue that any of those who are taking up the option as being less passionate, or less loyal.

It could be argued - they have listened to a section of passionate Stkilda suppporters who want such a package, and are prepared to pay the $$$ to get it.

Bad news for average punters or families who can't afford it anymore (I would be included in that category) but good news for those who can and are prepared to pay for it. - but to argue that you are more loyal and passionate than they are doesn't stack up.

For an example - you cannot argue that Lindsay Fox isn't as loyal or passionate about the StKilda football club than yourself - the only point of difference is, he is prepared to pay extra $$$ to get the best seats in the house if he desired to do so.

[St Fidelius]

It's just that whatever it was that I loved about the Saints, is gone.


Now the answer could well be, that it was just a matter of time anyway. When you turn 30, things change. Priorities change.

So, as far as you're concerned, is it the Clubs fault or is it just you??

I don't really know.

This discussion has been interesting. I thought it was the club, but reading this and the other thread that was locked (not sure why) has made me think that it's probably just me.

Just maybe, you have been following the Saints just out of habit

Try going down to training and having a chat with a few players and then you might feel that passion again, watching those players you have spoken to do well.

[saint66au]

I know the L2 seating thing has been done to death..but theres 2 issues to it really

1. That the increase/compulsory SC rule was implemented at all..

2. How the above was communicated to the members.

To be honest I think its point #2 thats pyssed most people off. Unless you are a "rollover" payer, the fist time you knew of the increase was when you opened your 2009 Membership brochure. Its that, as much as the increase itself, that has got people offside.

All the Club had to do was send out a note/email to all L2 seatholders prior to the brochure being distributed. Sure there would have been still flak about the change, but at least you could potentially feel that the Club cared about you enough to give you a courtesy heads-up.

On the whole I have no gripes with the new Board. I do think the positives have outweghed the negatives. However I DO think they have got this one very wrong, and their attempts at post-event explanation have been overly-corporate and quite dismissive. I stillc ant see how having 500 people on the waiting list for seats equates to forcing people to join the Social Club. What do those 500 people do in the meantime? Sit L1? L3? I dont know anyone on the actual waiting list..does anyone?

[St Fidelius]

I know the L2 seating thing has been done to death..but theres 2 issues to it really

1. That the increase/compulsory SC rule was implemented at all..

2. How the above was communicated to the members.

To be honest I think its point #2 thats pyssed most people off. Unless you are a "rollover" payer, the fist time you knew of the increase was when you opened your 2009 Membership brochure. Its that, as much as the increase itself, that has got people offside.

All the Club had to do was send out a note/email to all L2 seatholders prior to the brochure being distributed. Sure there would have been still flak about the change, but at least you could potentially feel that the Club cared about you enough to give you a courtesy heads-up.

On the whole I have no gripes with the new Board. I do think the positives have outweghed the negatives. However I DO think they have got this one very wrong, and their attempts at post-event explanation have been overly-corporate and quite dismissive. I stillc ant see how having 500 people on the waiting list for seats equates to forcing people to join the Social Club. What do those 500 people do in the meantime? Sit L1? L3? I dont know anyone on the actual waiting list..does anyone?

Yeah mate, and has the Club even asked for extra L2 reserved seating allocation, surely we should get a better deal to suit ALL members...

If 500 are waiting for reserved seats, the Club should request the extra seating

[markp]

I would've thought at the very least you'd announce it for the following season, and explain the reasoning (and I'd hope it's not just because they can).

If you add up all that and the cost of finals tickets, it's getting fairly prohibitive.

[St Fidelius]

I would've thought at the very least you'd announce it for the following season, and explain the reasoning (and I'd hope it's not just because they can).

If you add up all that and the cost of finals tickets, it's getting fairly prohibitive.

Spot on!

Some, or Most of the people affected have been sitting together for years and enjoy each others company, now they are left with no idea of possibly their names or maybe contact details to still be able to enjoy eachothers company at the footy in the future.

They are left high and dry, with some not even getting any official correspondence from the Club.

It is really p1ss weak, that this was not handled more professionally, and the 500 or so effected weren't treated with some personal care.

A really bad "business" choice in not communicating with their "current reserved seat holders" to give them at least some little time to organise other seating arrangements.

Or get some extra seating on L2 if there is a so called waiting list

[Devilhead]

This discussion has been interesting. I thought it was the club, but reading this and the other thread that was locked (not sure why) has made me think that it's probably just me.

[Ice Wolf]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

OMG the bastards, how dare they add value like that.

And also they have added the loyality program as well, plus what we get with our memberships now is a lot better than what we used to get. i.e the first hat I got as reserved seat member was the Bill Express hat with a saints logo, now we get a St Kilda hat with a small sponsors logo which is much better.

Unlike others, it seems, I don't actually want anything from the club.

I don't expect to be cuddled, bribed or pampered.

That's not why I supported the Saints. It was unconditional. I didn't need anything in return.

It's just that whatever it was that I loved about the Saints, is gone.


Now the answer could well be, that it was just a matter of time anyway. When you turn 30, things change. Priorities change.

Like you I don't really care what they give me that's not the reason i support the club.

I was just pointing out that they do give us more back now than they used to, You could also add the club forum to it with the ask archie section and the work Saints Media has been doing lately keeping us informed as to club announcements.

[WayneJudson42]

In terms of the level 2 seating - I thought alot of these seats which are now available were previously held by those attending the corporate functions??? In any case - if the demand of the seats on level 2 is so great, then that will force the price up - forcing them to be social club members I guess is a way they can achieve that.

The club is also opening a Social Club area on Level 2 for Social Club members to use.

OMG the bastards, how dare they add value like that.

And also they have added the loyality program as well, plus what we get with our memberships now is a lot better than what we used to get. i.e the first hat I got as reserved seat member was the Bill Express hat with a saints logo, now we get a St Kilda hat with a small sponsors logo which is much better.

Unlike others, it seems, I don't actually want anything from the club.

I don't expect to be cuddled, bribed or pampered.

That's not why I supported the Saints. It was unconditional. I didn't need anything in return.

It's just that whatever it was that I loved about the Saints, is gone.


Now the answer could well be, that it was just a matter of time anyway. When you turn 30, things change. Priorities change.

dude... 30 is extremely young for the onset of male menopause.

You should see a doctor. ASAP

[ctqs]

I know they want us to think it's a big business but I have one problem with that. How many big businesses rely on hundreds of dollars from each member (shareholder?) to keep going, and use emotional blackmail, along the lines of "if you don't give us your money your club will die and it will be your fault", to obtain that money, whether the "business" is travelling well or not?

[PJ]

Like i said before the business side and the emotional, passionate footy supporter side are historically intertwined. One runs into the other and vice versa. You can't get too angry at the admin they're only doing their job and trying to run the joint like a business - which it is.

If you link your passion for the saints to the purchasing of a ticket your going to come off second best.

Some on here berate Archie & Greg like they're actually taking the money home with them. It's a business, a system - get it. They actually don't get any jollies seeing supporters disadvantaged - believe it or not.

[rodgerfox]

Some on here berate Archie & Greg like they're actually taking the money home with them. It's a business, a system - get it. They actually don't get any jollies seeing supporters disadvantaged - believe it or not.

I've always been of the belief, that a club exists for the supporters.

What's the point of a club existing? Why does the St Kilda Footy Club exist? What's it's point?

The answer to that, is very different right now, to the answer 50 years ago. And I'd even say vastly different to the answer you would have gotten 10 years ago.


The St Kilda Footy Club was formed for the community. As are pretty much all sporting clubs that existed more than 30 years ago.

They exist to offer something to the community. For local people to get involved in something. The club represents the people.

Now, sporting clubs (professional ones) exist to ensure the prosperity of the AFL. That's all the St Kilda Footy Club exists for. It's soul belongs to the AFL. It's not for us anymore - we're for them.

The AFL moves clubs, creates clubs, disolves clubs, favours clubs and hampers clubs to improve it's own position and financial standing.

The AFL isn't a competition. It hasn't been for years. It's a large business in the entertainment industry which tweaks results to ensure it's product is marketable.

The St Kilda Footy Club is merely a revenue source in this business. We are customers. Not members, not supporters, not fans etc. - we're customers.

The AFL and the St Kilda Footy Club don't care if their customers are disadvantaged, happy, unhappy, disgruntled or somewhere in between - as long as we pay up.

Even if deep down we all knew this anyway, when Archie Fraser came on board I believe this became obvious.
There was still a real 'Saints' feel to the club prior to Fraser. Paying up didn't bother many people, because it was still the Saints. But when Fraser came on board, the club lost a huge sense of loyalty. A CEO that seemed to be fighting with everyone - including long time Saints people and employees, and appearing to not give a rat's who he was upsetting at the club. Supporters generally want to feel that someone has the club at heart, and not their role. Fraser for mine, didn't project that perception. And initially didn't seem to even try to.

I believe that GT, and Butterss did care about the supporters. I genuinely do.
That of course, changed over time.

When Thommo and Burke took over the Board, along with an old diehard Saints fan in Westaway, it felt like the club was once again interested in the club - and not simply aiding the AFL's cause.


Then Westaway, Burke and Thompson went AWOL and we have Archie Fraser, Lyon, Silvagni and Matthew Drain as the public reps of the club.

Never before, had it been more clear that this club was solely in existence to make money, and to prop up their leg of the AFL's business. These were just professional 'footy people' with no links at all to the club, and were only here for the pay cheque.


It's probably been that way for years. Probably back to the Plympton days and before. Butterss and GT probably just did exceptionally well to rally the fans and kid them into thinking it was still a club. Our own entity which was representing the supporters - and not just a department in the corporation called the AFL.

Now though, no one is even attempting to kid the fans. The cards are on the table. Pay up, or piiss off.

Some are Ok with this. Others aren't.

Some don't actually enjoy modern AFL footy, and without the sense of 'us Vs. them' simply aren't interested in the sport.

[degruch]

This is the same St Kilda that couldn't pay it's creditors years ago...the same one that chopped player entitlements to stay alive...tossed out players like Russell Green without a thought??? I think you're looking at this whole thing through your cloudy nostalgia glasses on.

Clubs always go through rough patches where various parties get their nose out of joint, be it members, players or the board. I think the Saints may be struggling to re-establish themselves internally and on-field post-FF period, but I hestitate to say they're no longer a club. Sounds like your beef is with AFL manipulation, double standards and 'corruption'...send Dimwit a letter about it, poor Archie has to deal with his screwed up league.

[rodgerfox]

Sounds like your beef is with AFL manipulation, double standards and 'corruption'...send Dimwit a letter about it, poor Archie has to deal with his screwed up league.

Absolutely I have a 'beef' with the AFL.

In my view, they've turned a very enjoyable sport into one that I can no longer sit through.

As for 'poor Archie', why would he care? He still gets paid if we win, lose or draw.

If we win, lose or draw as per the AFL's planning, he'd probably even get paid more and/or guarantee himself a job when he leave the Saints.

'Poor Archie'! Give me a break.

[degruch]

Sounds like your beef is with AFL manipulation, double standards and 'corruption'...send Dimwit a letter about it, poor Archie has to deal with his screwed up league.

Absolutely I have a 'beef' with the AFL.

In my view, they've turned a very enjoyable sport into one that I can no longer sit through.

As for 'poor Archie', why would he care? He still gets paid if we win, lose or draw.

If we win, lose or draw as per the AFL's planning, he'd probably even get paid more and/or guarantee himself a job when he leave the Saints.

'Poor Archie'! Give me a break.

Well, you had respect for RB, so I thought I'd raise you in the ridiculous stakes with a 'poor Archie'.

[rodgerfox]

Well, you had respect for RB, so I thought I'd raise you in the ridiculous stakes with a 'poor Archie'.

Did I?