The seasrch for our next FB

[BigMart]

In the style of, who will replace Hayden?

It is a **** of a position to play, and takes someone with special qualities to master it......it seems to be the question that need to be answered when figuring it out would be, how would they go on BUDDY.....

anyway with Max retiring at the endo of year, and his fitness never a guarantee...who are the candidates

What are the attributes....size, speed, strength, confidence, footy smart..

here are ten options

1. M.Maguire 25yo, 191cm, 98kg - big strong athlete with courage and confidence. Needs a position to lock down.
2. S.Gilbert 22yo, 194cm, 89kg - Tall, rangy and attacking.
3. Z.Dawson 22yo,, 195cm, 95kg - Tall, obviously recruited for a reason. The Hawks saw something in him when he was younger.
4. K.Haretuku 19yo, 198cm, 96kg - Good size, very athletic, raw
5. J.Allen 20yo, 193cm, 90kg - Recruited mainly as a fwd, but could turn. Cahill has given a future fwd prospect.
6. S.Gaertner 18yo, 199cm, 87kg - Freak athlete with a lot to learn.
7. T.Simpkin 18yo 190cm, 85kg - has played tall at U18 level.
8. T.Lynch 18yo, 192cm, 85kg - recruited as a hit up fwd, but is versatile.
9. P.Cahill 18yo, 192cm, 87kg - Recruited as a FF....could he play the other end.
10. J.Gwilt 23yo, 188cm, 95kg - Has done it before. Short, but strong and powerful. Big kick

[Eastern]

Would Gilbo lose anything if he was to stack on another 5-6 Kgs? !!

[EB]

Couple of points on who I've seen.

Goose - will be too slow imo. Both in straight line speed and agility.
Gilbert - must admit I'd always thought of him as a flanker but he's quite tall. his leg speed would be an advantage as a full back, but I'm not sold on his turning circle.
Dawson - played most of 08 in attack for Box Hill (think he may have kicked 8 in one game). Hopefully his strength has improved a bit. Not sure he's up to the grade though
Gwilt - at 188cm probably isn't good enough or quick enough to play on full forwards successfully
Allen - bit on the slow side.

atm I'd say the best bet would be Gilbert, although personally I think he's best suited across the half back line

[BigMart]

EB - I would have to disagree on some points...

Gwilt is rated as very quick, does not look it..

Maguire has VG straight line tow....cannot turn

Gilbert has played all of his development footy as a KPD

Dawson played the majority of 08 at FB for BH....

[Eastern]

I see Dawson is NOW 95Kg. I guess that is a fair bit bigger than he was when Mr Big Nose destroyed him when he was still a teenager !!

[saintsRrising]

Blake is 28...and his spoiling skills have improved out of sight over the last two years and spoling wise he would be the second best spolier at the club behind only Max.

We know from his tagging that he can stick toa man..and focus on him. Last season Blake "grew" as a key defender. blake has also thrown off his "rabbit in the headlight" moments that used to dog his games often undowing what would otherwise have been ok games.

Gilbert long-term is a likely FB..but is several years off.

So for mine..Max this year..Blake for a year or two..then Gilbert.

Someone like Gaernter could surprise though.

[plugger66]

Apart from one or two forwards these days you dont need set FB. Depending on who you are playing on and where they are playing I think you can get away with different type of players. Having said that if we had someone who could develop like Max that would be great. From the players i have seen play at the moment there isnt a natural Fb so unless we have recruited one we may have to get by with a bits and pieces player.

[saint66au]

Apart from one or two forwards these days you dont need set FB. Depending on who you are playing on and where they are playing I think you can get away with different type of players. Having said that if we had someone who could develop like Max that would be great. From the players i have seen play at the moment there isnt a natural Fb so unless we have recruited one we may have to get by with a bits and pieces player.

Was just about to post something similar.

The traditional FB is now "the bloke who takes the best forward"..not neccessarily the tallest forward or "full forward"

Different sides structure up differently in attack . Hawthorn have 2 excellent tall key forwards..so do Essendon. Bulldogs dont...Carlton dont..neither do Geelong.

I like the idea of Blake. Has the tank to go with any mobile forward, has the height to go with most of them..and has footy smarts that improved in leaps and bounds in 08.

Long term?? The main problem with Goose and Gilbo...they are straight-line players. Witness the job Williams did on Gilbo in the PF. Destroyed him with his evasiveness. Gilbo may grow into some turning skills, but I fear Gooses injury may well hamper him forever in that regard.

Sam Fisher must now be used as link player/tall mid. . He's far too valuable to be dragged deep in defence minding a Rocca or a Franklin.

[Devilhead]

Gaertner

Obviously he will need to come off the rookie list however with his height speed and x-factor you feel he could match up on someone like buddy perfectly

Will be keeping an on his progress duirng the year closely

[Bernard Shakey]

In the style of, who will replace Hayden?

It is a **** of a position to play, and takes someone with special qualities to master it......it seems to be the question that need to be answered when figuring it out would be, how would they go on BUDDY.....

anyway with Max retiring at the endo of year, and his fitness never a guarantee...who are the candidates

What are the attributes....size, speed, strength, confidence, footy smart..

here are ten options

1. M.Maguire 25yo, 191cm, 98kg - big strong athlete with courage and confidence. Needs a position to lock down.
2. S.Gilbert 22yo, 194cm, 89kg - Tall, rangy and attacking.
3. Z.Dawson 22yo,, 195cm, 95kg - Tall, obviously recruited for a reason. The Hawks saw something in him when he was younger.
4. K.Haretuku 19yo, 198cm, 96kg - Good size, very athletic, raw
5. J.Allen 20yo, 193cm, 90kg - Recruited mainly as a fwd, but could turn. Cahill has given a future fwd prospect.
6. S.Gaertner 18yo, 199cm, 87kg - Freak athlete with a lot to learn.
7. T.Simpkin 18yo 190cm, 85kg - has played tall at U18 level.
8. T.Lynch 18yo, 192cm, 85kg - recruited as a hit up fwd, but is versatile.
9. P.Cahill 18yo, 192cm, 87kg - Recruited as a FF....could he play the other end.
10. J.Gwilt 23yo, 188cm, 95kg - Has done it before. Short, but strong and powerful. Big kick

None of the above. Neil is the one.

[BigMart]

Adelaide - K.Tippett/T.Hentschell/N.Gill
Brisbane - J.Brown/D.Bradshaw/M.Clarke
Carlton - B.Fevola/B.Fisher/M.Kruzer
Collingwood - A.Rocca/S.Rusling/P.Medhurst
Essendon - M.Lloyd/S.Lucas
Freo - Pavlich/Tarrent/Murphy
Geel - C.Mooney/T.Lonergan/S.Johnson
Hawthorn - Buddy/Roughead
Kangaroos - Hale/Edwards
Melbourne - Watts/Robertson
Port - Tredrea/Ebert
Richmond - Richo/Hughes/Schultz/Morton
St.K - Riewoldt/Koschitzke
Sydney - Hall/O'Loughlan/O'Keefe
WCE - Hanson/Lynch/Staker/McKinley
WB - Johnson/Welsh

Marking fwds will be around as long as footy will be around....the ball will always have to be kicked fwd, and caught by someone....under pressure it has to be someone who is capable overhead (they may vary in size) but have one thing in common.........they will need to be defended....

The one who plays closest to goal will need a special defender......an extremely tight one, because if he stuffs up, a score usually follows......
he is called a Full Back

[plugger66]

Adelaide - K.Tippett/T.Hentschell/N.Gill
Brisbane - J.Brown/D.Bradshaw/M.Clarke
Carlton - B.Fevola/B.Fisher/M.Kruzer
Collingwood - A.Rocca/S.Rusling/P.Medhurst
Essendon - M.Lloyd/S.Lucas
Freo - Pavlich/Tarrent/Murphy
Geel - C.Mooney/T.Lonergan/S.Johnson
Hawthorn - Buddy/Roughead
Kangaroos - Hale/Edwards
Melbourne - Watts/Robertson
Port - Tredrea/Ebert
Richmond - Richo/Hughes/Schultz/Morton
St.K - Riewoldt/Koschitzke
Sydney - Hall/O'Loughlan/O'Keefe
WCE - Hanson/Lynch/Staker/McKinley
WB - Johnson/Welsh

Marking fwds will be around as long as footy will be around....the ball will always have to be kicked fwd, and caught by someone....under pressure it has to be someone who is capable overhead (they may vary in size) but have one thing in common.........they will need to be defended....

The one who plays closest to goal will need a special defender......an extremely tight one, because if he stuffs up, a score usually follows......
he is called a Full Back

So you think most clubs have one player who plays on any type of marking forward. Not these days except maybe Max. Even scarlett doesnt play on the best forward and he is just about the best FB going around. fotball will become less and less about KPP so get used to haing a few rotating through FB.

[Mr Magic]

Adelaide - K.Tippett/T.Hentschell/N.Gill
Brisbane - J.Brown/D.Bradshaw/M.Clarke
Carlton - B.Fevola/B.Fisher/M.Kruzer
Collingwood - A.Rocca/S.Rusling/P.Medhurst
Essendon - M.Lloyd/S.Lucas
Freo - Pavlich/Tarrent/Murphy
Geel - C.Mooney/T.Lonergan/S.Johnson
Hawthorn - Buddy/Roughead
Kangaroos - Hale/Edwards
Melbourne - Watts/Robertson
Port - Tredrea/Ebert
Richmond - Richo/Hughes/Schultz/Morton
St.K - Riewoldt/Koschitzke
Sydney - Hall/O'Loughlan/O'Keefe
WCE - Hanson/Lynch/Staker/McKinley
WB - Johnson/Welsh

Marking fwds will be around as long as footy will be around....the ball will always have to be kicked fwd, and caught by someone....under pressure it has to be someone who is capable overhead (they may vary in size) but have one thing in common.........they will need to be defended....

The one who plays closest to goal will need a special defender......an extremely tight one, because if he stuffs up, a score usually follows......
he is called a Full Back

So you think most clubs have one player who plays on any type of marking forward. Not these days except maybe Max. Even scarlett doesnt play on the best forward and he is just about the best FB going around. fotball will become less and less about KPP so get used to haing a few rotating through FB.

Agreed, the game has evolved from 'set positions' to 'matchups'.
Many will not really appreciate what a great player Max has been until he retires and they witness the number of different players used to cope with the variety of players Max has taken and beaten over the years.

Whether its the power forwards like Neitz,
or the quick leading giants like Buddy,
or the small power forwards like Smiling Johnson.

I recall him keeping Nathan Brown under control on numerous occasions as well.

[PJ]

Judging from Ross's interview he's still thinking that Matt's a CHB. But I doubt he'd be putting all his eggs in that basket. Problem being we've been waiting to see if he is still able to do that job for some time now.

Match-ups is the name of the game now and SRS nailed it when he said Blake is the second best negator in our team so if Max were to get injured/retire then Blakey's probably the next cab of the rank. The guy seems to get that little bit better every year. I wasn't a big fan of his work in the early days but the last couple of years he's really kicked on.

Wouldn't put Jimmy in the backline - it's never worked besides he's nearly our best kick for goal (especially long range) just wish he could find it more. If he could get 3 set shots from the 50 perimeter we'd probably have at least 2 goals per week from him.

I'm pretty keen to see what Zac D can do but that's an unknown.

Interestingly RL still wants Bakes to round of the defence. Me, I don't care where he plays as long as he plays.

As far as Max goes just enjoy watching "the legend" in his last year.

How would you rate Max as a FB compared to other great saints FB's?

Frawley, Barker, Murray, Neale

To a lesser degree Shanahan.

[sunsaint]

the other thing to consider is that in todays game the CHF(or the forward around the 50mt mark) is usually the most dangerous forward.
Max was never comfortable that far out from goal.
S Fisher's '08 at CHB was the main reason why we were pretty solid down back last year. And now most pundits are moving Fisher into the center.
Scary thought, writing off Max and Sam out of the backline.

And is Dawson REALLY 95kg? I havent seen any current photos of him so maybe those who have visited training could give a better estimate?

[mad saint guy]

Gilbert is the only long-term option who has actually shown anything. No doubt we'll try to turn Gaertner, Cahill, Haretuku and possibly Lynch into defenders, but it is far too early for anyone to say how they will develop.

For now we have plenty of options with Max, Gilbert, Chips and Blake all reliable players, and Maguire, Raph, Gwilt, Dawson, Dempster and even BJ can fill a hole if we're hit by injuries.

[InkerSaint]

If anything the Saints have loads of defenders coming through. Some of them will have to work out! Whether it's Dawson or someone else - they've got a year to assess it.

At their height I'm not sure if Haretuku and Gaertner are destined for the backline. But with so many ruck types on hand, who knows.

I get the impression Cahill and Simpkin are a way off yet. Would be surprised if Lynch didn't play forward. Wonder what they'll do with Gwilt this year, what with Ray, Begley, Baker and Maguire all available.

If anything there is still currently a hole in the form of a marking forward - "the next Aaron Hamill" - and in the probability that Lynch and Heyne aren't quite ready for the task they'll be reliant on the Armo's and Eddy's and attacking midfielders in the absence of that role. Pity about Allen this year - I'll bet they had him in mind for this.

[ThePunter]

It's Gilbert - RL has said as much.

[Raven]

Has everyone forgotten Miles? I haven't seen him play except for that one NAB Cup game and I know he's only a rookie, but wasn't he recruited as a key defender? Who knows, maybe he's a dud, but I hope not.

I still think Blake will be able to fill the void once Max has gone, if only for a year or two. Gilbert might step up, who knows.

Should have picked up Carroll! *ducks for cover*

[BigMart]

Blake's strength is his aerobic capacity, not his speed.....taking him back to the goal-square would take away his advantage.....being able to use his tank to hurt the opposition/ and he nullifies opponents by the fact he can keep up with them with running power.

Miles is far too small
185cm/78kg, he is no bigger than Dal.

I agree NOT one type of player will play FF (that has been the case for 100 years) but there will always be a player playing out of the GS....and his attributes will be Spped/Power/Marking ability - not size.

Whether it be
Small - Medhurst/Matera/Williams/Ebert/Johnson/Robbo
or
Traditional - Lloyd/Fevola/Bradshaw/
or
Gorilla target - Neitz/Mooney/Rocca/Hall/Hale/Kosi
or
Athlete - Franklin/Riewoldt/Richo/Watts

They all have one thing in common - they are Lead/Mark players....

There will always be a spot for a key defender who can play on these types of players.

[footynut]

Glibert seems to be the obvious choice and has all the attributes to play FB, however I wouldnt discount Miles despite being 7cm shorter. From what ive seem he has speed, a leap and reads da play well (a massive bonus).

Maguire, Dempster, Cahill and Lynch are all the right hight for a moden day FB, 191-192cm, and are good athletes (expecially the latter 2).

I believe we have the players 2 be able to replace Hudghton in a year or 2 when he decides to retire or move into a BP.

[rodgerfox]

Apart from one or two forwards these days you dont need set FB. Depending on who you are playing on and where they are playing I think you can get away with different type of players. Having said that if we had someone who could develop like Max that would be great. From the players i have seen play at the moment there isnt a natural Fb so unless we have recruited one we may have to get by with a bits and pieces player.

I agree with you here.

You need genuine 'defenders' but an old school FB is a bit outdated. Shane Wakelin was even 'rested' for various games due to matchups.

Basically, all your 'tall defenders' need to be somewhere in between Scarlett and Max.

What I also agree with, is that from the players we currently have, none appear to me to be able to do this role now, or in the future.

This is a legitimate hole for us.

[PJ]

Blake's strength is his aerobic capacity, not his speed.....taking him back to the goal-square would take away his advantage.....being able to use his tank to hurt the opposition/ and he nullifies opponents by the fact he can keep up with them with running power.

Take your point about his speed but FF's that take him back to the goal square are more likely to be gorilla types and I reckon JB can cope with this, he's pretty good at holding his ground and punching the incoming pill.

[saintsRrising]

Has everyone forgotten Miles? :

He is too small for full back in the AFL.
May makea great flanker though.

He has played more games as a mid than as FB.

Yes he played FB at his old club...but they had a black hole there and no real other options. And he mainly played asa mid there.

[saintsRrising]

Blake's strength is his aerobic capacity, not his speed.....taking him back to the goal-square would take away his advantage.....being able to use his tank to hurt the opposition/ and he nullifies opponents by the fact he can keep up with them with running power.

.

Scarlett runs off his opponents well. Blake can do this.

One of the reasons that Blake spoils very well is he has an exceptional leap.

Not blessed with speed...but I am afraid other other options for FB after Max are even slower.

Full backs also need to be very good spoilers. For example Sam Fisher is a superstar...but he is an ordinary spoler at present.

So until a young kid bobs up, or Gilbert radically improves (and in 2 years he may be there).....or we trade for someone...Blake is the main option after Max.