Leigh MATTHEWS on SAINTS / Kosi

[WinnersOnly]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

The Need for Speed...

WHEN Essendon is having a good match, there are usually a few common denominators: David Hille and Patrick Ryder ruck well and kick goals; Jobe Watson leads the clearance wins; Brent Stanton links up and carries the footy; and Dustin Fletcher controls the back 50m.

When the Bombers blitzed the Saints with a seven-goals-to-one first quarter last Friday, these players were all key drivers in the term that established Essendon's match-wining lead.

The Bombers are fortunate to have the services of the Hille-Ryder ruck/forward partnership.

Most ruckmen want to spend 80 per cent plus time in the ruck because few are capable of performing as effective forward targets.

Both Hille and Ryder are dangerous off the full-forward line, which enables them to be a terrific pairing and for Essendon to have them both on the ground at the same time for the majority of the match.

St Kilda has been very successful over the last two seasons by playing two big ruckman plus a 197cm forward in Justin Koschitzke.

More and more, Koschitzke is looking too slow and cumbersome as a forward and is moving with the limited agility of most ruckmen.

There must be serious consideration of speeding the Saints team up by including another runner, leaving out the second ruckman, and using Kosi as the back up to Michael Gardener.

St Kilda's winning formula has been successfully attacked in recent weeks, so the selection balance of height and strength versus speed and run might need a subtle adjustment in favour if increasing the latter.

As a big full-forward Koschitzke is averaging only a goal a game, which is just not enough to justify his current role unless he adds the extra string to the bow of being the second ruck option as well.

Lets hope Ross LYON reads this and does something about it !

[BringBackMadDog]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

The Need for Speed...

WHEN Essendon is having a good match, there are usually a few common denominators: David Hille and Patrick Ryder ruck well and kick goals; Jobe Watson leads the clearance wins; Brent Stanton links up and carries the footy; and Dustin Fletcher controls the back 50m.

When the Bombers blitzed the Saints with a seven-goals-to-one first quarter last Friday, these players were all key drivers in the term that established Essendon's match-wining lead.

The Bombers are fortunate to have the services of the Hille-Ryder ruck/forward partnership.

Most ruckmen want to spend 80 per cent plus time in the ruck because few are capable of performing as effective forward targets.

Both Hille and Ryder are dangerous off the full-forward line, which enables them to be a terrific pairing and for Essendon to have them both on the ground at the same time for the majority of the match.

St Kilda has been very successful over the last two seasons by playing two big ruckman plus a 197cm forward in Justin Koschitzke.

More and more, Koschitzke is looking too slow and cumbersome as a forward and is moving with the limited agility of most ruckmen.

There must be serious consideration of speeding the Saints team up by including another runner, leaving out the second ruckman, and using Kosi as the back up to Michael Gardener.

St Kilda's winning formula has been successfully attacked in recent weeks, so the selection balance of height and strength versus speed and run might need a subtle adjustment in favour if increasing the latter.

As a big full-forward Koschitzke is averaging only a goal a game, which is just not enough to justify his current role unless he adds the extra string to the bow of being the second ruck option as well.

Lets hope Ross LYON reads this and does something about it !

Yes because Ross should listen to every media opinion and then select his side accordingly

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Leigh Matthews is stating the blindingly obvious. RL's one major flaw is a stubborn, defensive mindset that sees him throwing up barricades against the pressures of outside opinion, even when it's virtually indisputable.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

The Need for Speed...

WHEN Essendon is having a good match, there are usually a few common denominators: David Hille and Patrick Ryder ruck well and kick goals; Jobe Watson leads the clearance wins; Brent Stanton links up and carries the footy; and Dustin Fletcher controls the back 50m.

When the Bombers blitzed the Saints with a seven-goals-to-one first quarter last Friday, these players were all key drivers in the term that established Essendon's match-wining lead.

The Bombers are fortunate to have the services of the Hille-Ryder ruck/forward partnership.

Most ruckmen want to spend 80 per cent plus time in the ruck because few are capable of performing as effective forward targets.

Both Hille and Ryder are dangerous off the full-forward line, which enables them to be a terrific pairing and for Essendon to have them both on the ground at the same time for the majority of the match.

St Kilda has been very successful over the last two seasons by playing two big ruckman plus a 197cm forward in Justin Koschitzke.

More and more, Koschitzke is looking too slow and cumbersome as a forward and is moving with the limited agility of most ruckmen.

There must be serious consideration of speeding the Saints team up by including another runner, leaving out the second ruckman, and using Kosi as the back up to Michael Gardener.

St Kilda's winning formula has been successfully attacked in recent weeks, so the selection balance of height and strength versus speed and run might need a subtle adjustment in favour if increasing the latter.

As a big full-forward Koschitzke is averaging only a goal a game, which is just not enough to justify his current role unless he adds the extra string to the bow of being the second ruck option as well.

Lets hope Ross LYON reads this and does something about it !

Yes because Ross should listen to every media opinion and then select his side accordingly

Where did he say he "should listen to every media opinion and then select his side accordingly"? I must have missed that part. Could you point it out to me please.
I just saw "lets hope Ross LYON reads this and does something about it !", which is fair enough. Especially since the one giving this "media opinion" happens to have won 4 premierships during his long and illustrious coaching career, after winning 4 while playing, as well as 8 best and fairest awards. Plus being officially the "Best player of the 20th century", according to the AFL. So he might know a thing or two about footy. From memory Ross can claim none of those things, so I don't believe it would be the worst thing for him to have a read of what one of the best ever has to say about our team. Do you? Especially since he seems to be panicking a bit at the moment, throwing guys all over the place. Or are are your eyes rolling around in your head too much to even comprehend this?

[jonesy]

Where does this extra player with speed come from then? Are they having a round 19 draft...as there is nothing in the two's

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Rhys Stanley has speed.

[bergholt]

Rhys Stanley has speed.

technically this is true, but i don't remember seeing it used to advantage all that much in his six game run in the seniors.

[SainterK]

I disagree with Leigh....

Not sure why Roo and Kosi are suddenly expected to crash and crumb?

Armo's injury has thrown us, I actually believe he was to come back in.

Now we seem a mid short, so with Schneider playing in the middle more to cover this (and very well may I say) we are short a crumber.

Best thing we can hope is for Armo to recover quickly and break back in before the finals, or Mini to find some form and play along side Steven and Milne.

[plugger66]

Rhys Stanley has speed.

Yes but at the moment he doesnt do what other tall forwards do. He isnt a great mark either on the lead or in the packs. He is very young for a big guy and just learning the game. i am not sure he is ready for a finals campaign.

And it would be very tough on Ben to drop him as he has had a pretty good season .certainly better than Kosi.

[saintsRrising]

Leigh Matthews is stating the blindingly obvious. RL's one major flaw is a stubborn, defensive mindset that sees him throwing up barricades against the pressures of outside opinion, even when it's virtually indisputable.

So how many coaches exactly have been successful by following media opinion??

Was not that long ago I was reading article about how Malthouse should go and how the Pies game plan was rubbish etc etc..

Pies are still playing along the wing and are going ok.

IMO Lyon has to get our players head right a lot more than he needs to change the gameplan (though some tweaks might be ok).


However yes Kosi is a problem at present. Not sure he would achieve more asa No 2 ruck though.

PS:

Which part is indisputable? As a No 2 ruck would Kosi be better than Ben?

[plugger66]

Leigh Matthews is stating the blindingly obvious. RL's one major flaw is a stubborn, defensive mindset that sees him throwing up barricades against the pressures of outside opinion, even when it's virtually indisputable.

So how many coaches exactly have been successful by following media opinion??

Was not that long ago I was reading article about how Malthouse should go and how the Pies game plan was rubbish etc etc..

Pies are still playing along the wing and are going ok.

IMO Lyon has to get our players head right a lot more than he needs to change the gameplan (though some tweaks might be ok).


However yes Kosi is a problem at present. Not sure he would achieve more asa No 2 ruck though.

PS:

Which part is indisputable? As a No 2 ruck would Kosi be better than Ben?

Totally agree that getting the players heads right is the main thing. The structure is ok and we havent got many other choices in the seconds. If we get the confidence back that we had against Geelong then we are a huge chance. Making Kosi second ruckman doesnt make other players kick better or play on more quickly. If it did surely we would do it.

[WinnersOnly]

The 'indisputable' is we need Kosi flying if we are to have any chance of winning the thing this year. He has played all year at Full Forward in poor form. Why not throw him into the ruck and free him up and play him back into top form. We all know he can be a match winner when he is up and going.

If LYON is so worried about having a crash and bash full forward play McEvoy in that role, but we need Kosi back in form - that is indisputable!

[spert]

I personally think Kosi's days as a senior player are numbered for a couple of reasons..can't take the contested marks he used to, and has lost a little bit of agility, and I think has lost a bit of mongrel probably from fear of the MRP and their hair-trigger reaction to St Kilda players in particular. I would love him to really take a game by the scruff of the neck, but sadly he wont any more, so we might as well give Stanley and Patto more game time.

[WinnersOnly]

[/quote]Totally agree that getting the players heads right is the main thing. The structure is ok and we havent got many other choices in the seconds. If we get the confidence back that we had against Geelong then we are a huge chance. Making Kosi second ruckman doesnt make other players kick better or play on more quickly. If it did surely we would do it.[/quote]

Plugger think long term we need Kosi back in form ! The other players will turn it around but I cant see Kosi changing if left to rot at Full Forward !

[ralphsmith]

Andrew Lovett has speed.

That was our answer to our slow lumbering plodders. Ross knew it, that's why we drafted him!!

Ross is/was not ignorant of our extreme slowness. He listened and gave a solution. But it didn't work as planned.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Rhys Stanley has speed.

technically this is true, but i don't remember seeing it used to advantage all that much in his six game run in the seniors.

One thing he did do was chase and tackle pretty well, when the ball was in dispute, or when they had it. This is where Kosi is pretty much a "liability". He's awfully slow (relatively) now, whereas Rhys runs guys down, almost Alwyn Davey style.
I'm not suggesting he's the answer, though, especially in the finals.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Which part is indisputable? As a No 2 ruck would Kosi be better than Ben?

The part where Matthews says Kosi is slow and cumbersome (and, by implication, not appropriate as a full forward).

I agree with you that Ben is a better ruckman option. But I can't see that Kosi is going to improve. He's a liability -- sad fact, but let's accept it and respond.

[InkerSaint]

There's a parallel between R13 Saints-Cats and R18 Bombers-Saints: the winning team out-possessed and out-tackled the opposition.

Do you reckon there's anything in that?

Do you think if the Saints brought this to the table every week we would be talking about structure?

[samoht]

I wouldn't hold the tackle count against us.

A faster team should logically out tackle the slower team.

You might want to tackle an opponent - but you need to catch them first.

[plugger66]

I wouldn't hold the tackle count against us.

A faster team should logically out tackle the slower team.

You might want to tackle an opponent - but you need to catch them first.

Not sure about that. We were the leading tackling side last year and werent fast. Essendon were one of the fastest sides lasy year and they were low in tackles. Footy isnt a very open game so if you go in with the right attitude you will always get plenty of tackles. If your attitude is slightly off you will struggle make tackles stick.

[saintsRrising]

I wouldn't hold the tackle count against us.

A faster team should logically out tackle the slower team.

You might want to tackle an opponent - but you need to catch them first.

Or conversely if your opponent is quicker it is even more important to lay the tackle before they get away...


You have to be smart with the ball...and work hard. Both facets have been missing from our game of late.

The example that Lyon gave from the Hawks game was that Hodge set up that running goal on the burst because Joey was not in the right spot to block his path.

This is why teams need to work hard...to deny space to the opposition...and in turn create space when we have the ball.

[samoht]

I think Essendon's speed has proven to be greater than our endeavour to tackle.

Also .. re: tackling against quick teams...
Sometimes a player deliberately draws a tackler before releasing a quick running team mate in space who can be damaging.

Tackles may not always reveal what we think they do - it might be better to be the team making the play and being subjected to the more tackles.

[poatina]

At the risk of returning to the topic, one of the commentators in the Essendon game made a good point , that Kosi appears to have a high centre of gravity and is easily pushed over. They specualted that he needed more strength in his thighs and quads. I'm sure the rest of the AFL has woken up to this- one of the rare frees we got was when an Essondon player made the bump against Kosi too hard and too early .
I watched the Hawthorn game from a pocket and it was quite clear that whenever the ball came near Kosi a defender would simply body him out of his run up to a mark - sometimes ridiculously easily .The body pressure to put him off line was predictable and always effective - and always apparently a complete surprise to Kosi who was never braced for it . That might be why he goes a bit better in the ruck. He's no great reader of the play but if he happens to be in a pack when no -one is specifically assigned to the tactic of putting him off his line, he can take a mark .
I also think he has a real problem in being aggressive without giving away a free.

[WinnersOnly]

At the risk of returning to the topic, one of the commentators in the Essendon game made a good point , that Kosi appears to have a high centre of gravity and is easily pushed over. They specualted that he needed more strength in his thighs and quads. I'm sure the rest of the AFL has woken up to this- one of the rare frees we got was when an Essondon player made the bump against Kosi too hard and too early .
I watched the Hawthorn game from a pocket and it was quite clear that whenever the ball came near Kosi a defender would simply body him out of his run up to a mark - sometimes ridiculously easily .The body pressure to put him off line was predictable and always effective - and always apparently a complete surprise to Kosi who was never braced for it . That might be why he goes a bit better in the ruck. He's no great reader of the play but if he happens to be in a pack when no -one is specifically assigned to the tactic of putting him off his line, he can take a mark .
I also think he has a real problem in being aggressive without giving away a free.

Pothina you have it one ! It was Tom HARLEY that mentioned the lack of Kosi's core strength as his issue, which he is not going to remedy overnight. 2nd Ruck has to happen IMO...

[sunsaint]

Right or wrong, in the end it does not matter what Matthews (or anyone else writes) as Lyon has backed Kosi to the hilt and I dont think we will see any change.
Yes Kosi goes to ground a little too often, and big men dont bounce back up so quickly. Yes the contested marks arent sticking, and yes 1 goal average is not enough for the key Fforward. He more often than not brings his oponent to the contest, instead of keeping clear.( see Schneider's last 1/4 goals)
But the problem, as I see it, Kosi is not the better 2nd ruck option, for me McEvoy is better as a ruck.
I know its only one instance in a game of footy, but in the Essendon game Kosi did contest that last minute ball up that McEvoy goaled from, luckily Ben beat both Kosi and his opponent.
To me that sums his game up at the moment, he wants to make an impact but in that frame of mind, he is just trying too hard & making wrong choices.