Saints v North - Discussion

[SainterK]

8th versus 11th

Last time they played Rd 23 2011
Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Final

Saints 4.4 9.9 15.16 19.21 = 135 def North 2.5 7.7 9.7 10.10 = 70

Brownlow Votes: 3: N Riewoldt, 2: N Dal Santo, 1: B Goddard

Saints talls have traditionally troubled North, with Roo and Kosi getting a hold of their defence in most recent meetings. That being said, while the Saints have taken the wins, Petrie has given the defence his fair share of headaches. Playing into form against a listless Crows today, they also had Tarrant play a breakout game with Hansen also lending some height.

Available players for the Saints should include Saad, Ray, Simpkin and hopefully Stanley. Will be interesting to see how Roo pulls up and how they manage his calf injury, given his recent dominance v North. You'd hope Fisher and Ben play into some form, and Schneider continues to improve his good form since returning.

Wells was the highest possession getter for North today, with 8 inside 50's. Not sure who they will play on him? Harvey and Petrie both played well.

Possible matchups

Perhaps a returning Simpkin could play on Tarrant?
Blake v Petrie
We know that Harvey struggles under a close tag, and has been dempstered in the past. Perhaps if Simpkin comes back in this may happen again?
Geary v Thomas?
Jones v Adams?
Hayes v Swallow
Ben v Goldstein (seem to remember he monstered Ben last time)

Saints should win, trick will be not to let North have the kind of start they had this week by coming in sleepy after the bye. They need to be on and early, as they will have new enthusiasm that needs to be squashed and early.

[jays]

we should smash them really north are terrible, can get over them. Beating the crows

[Hallalj#3]

North are high turnover team that costs them in a lot of games Adelaides presure was off in the first half which proved costly in the end.. There high handball game attack through middle could cause us some problems if our intensity is slightly off.. Looking to get Sadd back in as his forward presure is elite. Our struggles with tall forwards could be the major factor if we do lose with Petrie really a brut and is the player that kosi could've been. Tarrent kicked 4 tonight so will also be one too worry about..

But North only play 1 way football that relies so heavily on opposition lack of presure so they can maxamise there handball link up play, coming off the bye you never know how players will be intensity wise so it's going to be a worry..

They have no match up for Roo and average small defenders so we should kick a good score if we can get it in there and unless Goldstein destroys benny Mac we should dominate the middle where north have no shut down players, although Ziebell destroyed dangerfield today but that looks to be a 1 off..

Saints should win and if our presure is good looking at 6 goal win at least..

[rexy]

This is a massive game in the context of our season, North have a good young midfield who have not been performing consistently, Wells Ziebell Bastinac Atley Swallow all good players. Their back line is definately their weak point and must be exposed for us to win well. We must win every game against opposition below us to play finals.

[Thinline]

Should win, but Roos can have their day.

Frankly, though. We simply have to come away with the points. Drop it and we'll be chasing our tails for 8th. Win and we remain well in the mix.

Good test. They were good today, Kangas. Geez they s*** me though. Harvey is an insufferable downhill skier...Irritates me no end....

[saintspremiers]

Should win, but Roos can have their day.

Frankly, though. We simply have to come away with the points. Drop it and we'll be chasing our tails for 8th. Win and we remain well in the mix.

Good test. They were good today, Kangas. Geez they s*** me though. Harvey is an insufferable downhill skier...Irritates me no end....

Boomer is the ultimate little turd. Wasn't he the one that copped no end of
Media hell after a gutless futile effort against us in a game last year?

[Thinline]

Should win, but Roos can have their day.

Frankly, though. We simply have to come away with the points. Drop it and we'll be chasing our tails for 8th. Win and we remain well in the mix.

Good test. They were good today, Kangas. Geez they s*** me though. Harvey is an insufferable downhill skier...Irritates me no end....

Boomer is the ultimate little turd. Wasn't he the one that copped no end of
Media hell after a gutless futile effort against us in a game last year?

That's right! Jones pantsed him from memory ??? Funny...

[WellardSaint]

Sorry for stating the obvious, but so many variables here.
We're coming off the bye. Some of our good players coming back after injury. How will they all front up? Fresh or stale?
North- was today a one-off- will they return to mediocrity; or are they firing on all cylinders again?
I believe Jones will do a number on Harvey. Milne will be able to turn it on for his beloved fans at Etihad.
But can our guys get into the F50 enough times for Kosi/Roo/Milne to score enough?
I can't wait.

[hAyES]

^^That game was in 2010 when we bet them by 100 points. Jones kept him to something like 6 touches.

Forward pressure needs to be up so we can get some turnovers from their rubbish handball game. North can only play that sort of game if the opposition are a bit off (eg their win against Geelong and barely winning a game since) so we need the smalls to chase and tackle so we can kick it back over their heads.

Simpkin has to come in to be an option on their talls which will allow Fisher to be the spare man.

Saad and Simpkin in for Raph and unfortunately Siposs who has been playing well but is a young player so will probably make way.

[samuraisaint]

Interestingly, since the retirements of players from North's golden era - 1993 - 2001 - we have stood up very well against them. Since the second half of 2003 we have won 11 out of 14 against them, with two of our losses being under 8 points.
Hale and Petrie have given us headaches over the years, but Hale is now gone. The only defender they had who could contain Roo was Gibson and he has been traded also. Interestingly, Swallow has only played the one breakout game against us, that being their narrow victory over us in 2009, but he will need to be focused on as he has the potential to tear sides apart.
In a way I was happy that North did what they did yesterday, we have been forewarned and we all remember our match against them last year where we failed to score in the last quarter.
We have a different game plan this year and a different modus operandi generally, so I would expect this game to be a bit higher scoring than that. Think our new found pace in the forward line, combined with the form of our midfield should get the job done reasonably comfortably.

[plugger66]

Whilst sides have good tall forwards we can lose. Petrie is a very good player and we dont have a proper match up for him. We need to be at our best to win. Anyone taking North lightly missed yesterdays game.

[PJ]

Whilst sides have good tall forwards we can lose. Petrie is a very good player and we dont have a proper match up for him. We need to be at our best to win. Anyone taking North lightly missed yesterdays game.

Each team is a week by week proposition. I remember after Carlton we were defeinate contenders. North need to put it together on a consistent basis. We'll probably have several players standing Petrie seems to be our current strategy with no key position backs - I'm not sure this is such a great way to be going but I guess if you don't have the cattle....

[saintspremiers]

Similar strategy to the Carlton game; lock down there outside runners ad they will struggle to
move it into their F50 quickly and well will get
Numbers back.

[bergholt]

north's forward structure in the last game was probably most similar to port or west coast - three talls, who kicked 7 goals between them. against west coast: cox/naitanui, darling and lynch shared 9 goals; against port: butcher, schulz, westhoff and stewart shared 7. and in our last game tippett and walker shared 7.

if petrie, hansen and tarrant kick more than about 6 between them then i reckon we've got a problem, so there's a job to do for the defence. some combination of blake, fisher, simpkin, gwilt, dempster and clarke needs to shut these guys down. petrie's 197cm and over 100kg, hansen's 197cm and 95+kg, tarrant is 196cm and 95+kg, so they're big boys - all of our defenders give away at least five or six centimetres and a few kilos. matchups for mine:

gwilt -> petrie
simpkin -> tarrant
fisher -> hansen

i have blake out of the side this time around, though that seems unlikely as it means there aren't a lot of other options if any of these guys are getting beaten.

the other danger is in the ruck. mcevoy was beaten badly by jacobs last game, and yesterday goldstein beat jacobs. if mcevoy doesn't break even then we've got a problem as the ball will be shooting out to their dangerous outside players.

my other change is milera out for saad. terry's been a revelation but adelaide was probably his worst game, and someone has to drop out with schneider back in the side. siposs is starting to really show something so it's important to keep his run going. and i'm assuming rhys isn't fit yet.

that makes it:

IN: Saad, Simpkin
OUT: Blake, Milera

FB: Simpkin, Gwilt, Dempster
HB: Clarke, Fisher, Goddard
C: Montagna, Armitage, Dal Santo
HF: Siposs, Riewoldt, Schneider
FF: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
R: McEvoy, Hayes, Jones
IC: Gram, Geary, Steven, Gilbert

not sure who the sub is of that lot. maybe gram? hopefully not siposs as he looks good for having a run in the side.

[gringo]

If Roo doesn't pull up I would give Wilkes a game at FF, he's a goal kicker and North have a pretty average backline. Blake would be the best match up for Petrie IMO.

[paddy]

blake played terribly last week,

be surprised if he got a game this week...

[older saint]

Wells is the key for north and must be shut down. May see Farren Ray come in for that role.

Fisher on Petrie and Geary on Thomas.

Jones on Harvey and go head to head with Zeibel through the middle.

They have a big forward line with Tarrant, Petrie and Hansen - Blake , Gwilt.

Raph stays off half back and Gilbert on the wing.

Assuming Roo fit then only change would be Ray in and perhaps Milera out .

[gringo]

blake played terribly last week,

be surprised if he got a game this week...

Kosi stunk also but both will play IMO. He did play a heap of good games before that. Taylor Walker and Tippet are fighting above his weight, just couldn't impact then injured.

[SainterK]

ST KILDA

INJURIES:
Ahmed Saad (concussion) available
Rhys Stanley (hamstring) test
Jack Newnes (quad) test
Nick Riewoldt (calf) test

ON THE BLOCK: Tricky to tell given the bye but there will be changes. The Saints were terrific against the Crows two weeks ago and did everything but win, but they’ve got players to come back. Kosi battled, Jason Blake copped a heavy knock and was subbed while star captain Nick Riewoldt has to prove his fitness this week after sustaining a calf tweak.

ON THE CUSP: Again, lots there to pick for the Saints. Ahmed Saad is fit and firing and desperate to return, Farren Ray was strong for Sandringham before missing a chance to clinch victory while Tom Simpkin was unlucky to be dropped and remains in the frame. Big Beau Wilkes also slotted four goals and must be worth another go at some stage – he’s looked good when given the chance.

SAM LANDSBERGER’S FORECAST: North Melbourne’s stunning win against Adelaide really does set up a classic match against St Kilda this week. The Saints are fresh from the bye and both sides are now in strong form. Win on Sunday and it’s likely Scott Watters’ men will close Round 14 four points and percentage clear in the top eight. There’s a lot at stake come 4.40pm Sunday.

NORTH MELBOURNE

INJURIES

Hamish McIntosh (knee) 2-3 weeks
Jack Ziebell (back) testON THE BLOCK: Jack Ziebell should be right but not sure Ben Cunnington is as safe as houses ahead of the Kangaroos must-win clash with St Kilda. Cunnington was subbed off with just five disposals at 40 per cent efficiency. Jamie MacMillan bobbed up but hardly enough to avoid his name cropping up at selection. Sam Gibson was handy when he came on and deserves a full game to prove himself.

ON THE CUSP: Cameron Pedersen was the Roos’ best with 18 disposals and 25-odd hit outs for VFL affiliate Werribee in trying conditions. Cruize Garlett again dominated for North Ballarat with a whopping 35 disposals while spearhead Aaron Edwards collected a career-high 32 touches including 10 marks. Livewire Matty Campbell had one of his best matches for the season and must be considered.

GILBERT GARDINER’S FORECAST: North stunned Adelaide yesterday with a runaway six-goal victory under the roof but it will all count for nothing unless the Roos can beat St Kilda this week. It was the young blokes (Tarrant, Atley, Adams, Bastinac and Grima) who stood up against the Crows and they must do it again to keep North’s season alive. Big Drew Petrie, a mainstay of the forward line in recent weeks, relished having young gun Robbie Tarrant (four goals) clunking marks left and right. The Roos could use a bit of pace (Campbell) against the Saints while Edwards – when on song – is a match-winner.

[samuraisaint]

North look top heavy for mine and will struggle if we get on top in the midfield. Petrie is the obvious headache, but he is not going to kick ten goals. Do we just go with Simpkin on him, let the fallout fallow, and rely on our midfield and forward crumbers to cut them up? We know number 12 goes alright against them so I am not worried about an inability to score.
Think we softened Adelaide up for them actually, their form against the Suns was awful, although after Saturday their form against the Lions looks better than it did before.

[PJ]

north's forward structure in the last game was probably most similar to port or west coast - three talls, who kicked 7 goals between them. against west coast: cox/naitanui, darling and lynch shared 9 goals; against port: butcher, schulz, westhoff and stewart shared 7. and in our last game tippett and walker shared 7.

if petrie, hansen and tarrant kick more than about 6 between them then i reckon we've got a problem, so there's a job to do for the defence. some combination of blake, fisher, simpkin, gwilt, dempster and clarke needs to shut these guys down. petrie's 197cm and over 100kg, hansen's 197cm and 95+kg, tarrant is 196cm and 95+kg, so they're big boys - all of our defenders give away at least five or six centimetres and a few kilos. matchups for mine:

gwilt -> petrie
simpkin -> tarrant
fisher -> hansen

i have blake out of the side this time around, though that seems unlikely as it means there aren't a lot of other options if any of these guys are getting beaten.

the other danger is in the ruck. mcevoy was beaten badly by jacobs last game, and yesterday goldstein beat jacobs. if mcevoy doesn't break even then we've got a problem as the ball will be shooting out to their dangerous outside players.

my other change is milera out for saad. terry's been a revelation but adelaide was probably his worst game, and someone has to drop out with schneider back in the side. siposs is starting to really show something so it's important to keep his run going. and i'm assuming rhys isn't fit yet.

that makes it:

IN: Saad, Simpkin
OUT: Blake, Milera

FB: Simpkin, Gwilt, Dempster
HB: Clarke, Fisher, Goddard
C: Montagna, Armitage, Dal Santo
HF: Siposs, Riewoldt, Schneider
FF: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
R: McEvoy, Hayes, Jones
IC: Gram, Geary, Steven, Gilbert

not sure who the sub is of that lot. maybe gram? hopefully not siposs as he looks good for having a run in the side.

I thought Rhys was ready from media reports.

[To the top]

Anyone who was at Footy Park and saw Blake torn apart by 4 including because he tried to zone a pack marking forward would never ever suggest that Blake be given Petrie, or any other focal forward.

Blake as a defender, and at 189cm, relies exclusively on zoning as a defensive mechanism - and that is the job Fisher handles with such class (unless tagged as Lyon did to him - and others have also).

We will heavily rely on 2nd and 3rd up and numbers at ground level meaning both Gilbert and Clarke become important along with our mids (and our rucks and forwards) working back.

This may suit McEvoy better because he can ruck then work exclusively back - and hopefully Stanley will go the other way giving NM 3 talls (Ro, Kosi and Stanley - along with Sippos) to contend with forcing them to push height back and making it easier for McEvoy and our defenders.

So, attacking from the centre or on the break we cause them problems - particularly with Milera and Saad in the side.

Saad, Stanley and Simpkin in.

Blake, Geary and Milne out.

Probably will not happen with Milne remaining for Milera, but Milera's pace and ability to work back then break forward is the way I would go.

[3rd generation saint]

Important to win this week, if results go the way form sways they should go, a win will put us 1 game and percentage ahead of the pack in the 8.
Harvey and Wells are their heart and soul, Jones has beaten Harvey convincingly in the past, so much that Harvey got himself reported due to frustration.
Petrie is hot and cold, and if we cut off the supply, he wont factor.
Watershed game, if we play at our best, easy win similar to Bulldogs.

[SainterK]

north's forward structure in the last game was probably most similar to port or west coast - three talls, who kicked 7 goals between them. against west coast: cox/naitanui, darling and lynch shared 9 goals; against port: butcher, schulz, westhoff and stewart shared 7. and in our last game tippett and walker shared 7.

if petrie, hansen and tarrant kick more than about 6 between them then i reckon we've got a problem, so there's a job to do for the defence. some combination of blake, fisher, simpkin, gwilt, dempster and clarke needs to shut these guys down. petrie's 197cm and over 100kg, hansen's 197cm and 95+kg, tarrant is 196cm and 95+kg, so they're big boys - all of our defenders give away at least five or six centimetres and a few kilos. matchups for mine:

gwilt -> petrie
simpkin -> tarrant
fisher -> hansen

i have blake out of the side this time around, though that seems unlikely as it means there aren't a lot of other options if any of these guys are getting beaten.

the other danger is in the ruck. mcevoy was beaten badly by jacobs last game, and yesterday goldstein beat jacobs. if mcevoy doesn't break even then we've got a problem as the ball will be shooting out to their dangerous outside players.

my other change is milera out for saad. terry's been a revelation but adelaide was probably his worst game, and someone has to drop out with schneider back in the side. siposs is starting to really show something so it's important to keep his run going. and i'm assuming rhys isn't fit yet.

that makes it:

IN: Saad, Simpkin
OUT: Blake, Milera

FB: Simpkin, Gwilt, Dempster
HB: Clarke, Fisher, Goddard
C: Montagna, Armitage, Dal Santo
HF: Siposs, Riewoldt, Schneider
FF: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
R: McEvoy, Hayes, Jones
IC: Gram, Geary, Steven, Gilbert

not sure who the sub is of that lot. maybe gram? hopefully not siposs as he looks good for having a run in the side.

I thought Rhys was ready from media reports.

Saints have him 1 week from resuming full training.

[Eastern]

I thought I heard;

SAINTS $1.30

North $3.20

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