What's happened? Game plan structures, Players what?

[ShanghaiSaint]

Guys' something is sick here... pre season we looked fast and exciting... last year we had some really nice fast running play.

so what the f%^k has happened? I don't want to scream at waters yet but some thing is bloody sick

What I can see
going to wide not using the corridor
structures look at of place
mozzies and a few others using no forward pressure.

From what we showed at times last year and in the NAB cup i was quietly confident about our side this year... Now I am sickened by what the saints are dishing up... we had one small run at the end of the third quarter and that was it.

If this keeps going it's going to be a very long year.

[fingers]

I'm actually struggling to see what the game plan is. Do we have one or are the players just not executing it?

[magnifisaint]

It's called a 6 day break vs an 8 day break. Great fix fixturing by the AFL

[bobmurray]

The problem with game plans is they require skill to execute them.....

This current team is not blessed with skill....at least they try...

[noob]

Ross Lyon had a defensive structure. Watters lets teams do whatever they like.

[ShanghaiSaint]

It's called a 6 day break vs an 8 day break. Great fix fixturing by the AFL

crap in 09 we had that and we came out and won all bloody year.

sorry I don't buy it... this year our gameplan pressure and other things are way off.

[Cairnsman]

Gee all things considering they did ok although having said that we could have been put away a lot sooner. I reckon it was only the last 10 to 15 minutes of the last quarter when we ran out of gas.

[Verdun66]

Too much fumbling. We were going forward quite a few times and just lost the ball. Sometimes not under any particular pressure. Lack of confidence, composure? Don't know.

Towards the end they were trying their guts out, but we lost structure. Looked like a couple of those finals we lost badly a couple of years ago. Bombing it forward to a lone forward with 2 or 3 to contend with. Tiredness had to come into it.

Our forward pressure wasn't there, or not having much effect.

To play that badly (and not get the rub of the green to say the least with the umpiring) and get that close was good. Just got to click into gear a bit quicker, and get cleaner in possession. 6 days break from interstate as against 8 days from home can't help.

[skeptic]

there's def something going on

Stanley was all over the place tonight as opposed to in the back half

SW is definetly experimenting

[dcstkfc]

The problem with game plans is they require skill to execute them.....

This current team is not blessed with skill....at least they try...

Agreed, it's a gameplan hugely reliant on the execution of skills going forward. Turnovers leave defenders open to one-on-ones, and our defenders are highly vulnerable.

He ain't Lyon

[BigMart]

To have barely a stoppage in two games with a slowish midfield who cramp...,

Tackles are down and structure is a worry

Got some match ups very wrong last two games

[BigMart]

To have barely a stoppage in two games with a slowish midfield who cramp...,

Tackles are down and structure is a worry

Got some match ups very wrong last two games

[WinnersOnly]

Its the way we move the ball - we are a poorly skilled team but the WATTERS wants these players to be able to hit leading targets lace out. We have no size or winners in defence, hence our mids have to push too far back and we dont have the run or pace to be able to carry the ball forward. Hence the reliance on hitting leading targets thru the centre of the ground rather than kicking the across our half forward line.

[Munga]

Agree with the thread. Effort was there. But defence, midfield, attack is all out of whack and not working effectively.
We seem to be behind in how to play the new rules too. All night the tigers were running head first in to everything....you can't tackle them, and if you do get a hand on them it's either too high or in the back (bulls*** rules).
All night the tigers were slapping the ball out of our hands, reading the play and running hard at our guys who were ready to receive the ball, closing space quickly when we have it, spreading quick when they have.
Also we could have a three on one advantage, but we can't win the ball because either they all go for the ball or none of them do! Schoolboy stuff.
Our skills look worse because the opposition are filling space effectively, and we aint creating any....very hard to hit a target anywhere!
On the players though, the effort was there but some shocking errors and we didn't need those tonight. Maister drops, Milne drops, Dempster doesn't spoil but goes for mark....

Geez I could go on....there's a STACK of work to do. I hope Scott starts the footy education from the start because the basics are all over the place.

[mad saint guy]

At times I could see our game plan "potentially" being very effective. We were often bringing the ball out of defence and simply had Richmond beaten on the rebound, but time and time again we'd either make a terrible decision or shank the kick (or both) to give up the scoring opportunity and give the Tigers a reprieve despite their ordinary pressure.

It's not just skills that we lack - it's intelligence. Schneider stood out so much when he came on because he would quickly pick a team mate in a good position and kick the ball to them. It sounds simple but our inability to do that is why we lost, and why we'll be a bottom 8 side rather than a top 8 side.

The move of Stanley to defence was also made far too late. In his brief time there he has be super-impressive and he was a big reason for our resurgence late in the game, as Richmond just couldn't get it past him. Personally I would have had him start on Riewoldt. Blake tries his guts out and can take a mediocre tall forward, but not a genuine matchwinner.

Our forward line was a mess all day. Milera offered absolutely nothing and Saad was leading like a FF and not crumbing. Maister did his job - no complaints there and Roo had a great game. But structurally we were awful. All of our forwards were playing behind their opponents as though our main avenue to scoring was hoping the ball was booted past the contest so we could run onto it. With Schneider's return Milera should go for another midfield rotation. Siposs is struggling in defence and I'd like to see him given an extended run as that true medium marking HF we've been looking for since Hamill retired.

The positives for me were

Stanley - unstoppable in defence, looks like a much more athletic, quicker Fletcher
Steven - excellent game. He and Geary would have to be the fittest guys at the club, great clearance work and improved ball use
McEvoy - flogged Maric all night all over the ground
Roo - vintage performance

Overall I was surprised or upset with our performance. We put in a much better effort than last week and the only thing separating the two teams was the 9 free kicks in Richmond's forward line to our 1. Even up the umpiring and we'd have a 2-3 goal win, but that's not to say we're any good.

Going forward Milera has to go for a midfielder and Blake should go for Simpkin. I don't think we'll ever get anywhere with Clint Jones panicking and turning it over every time he's under pressure but Watters seems to love him so there's not much point in talking about it. Newnes got a bit of the ball but was involved in about 7-8 contests with an opponent and lost them all; he's not nearly strong enough yet and we're conceding a position if he plays.

[Junction Oval]

Yep, the usual stuff - they tried extra hard last night, but critical execution errors at times and very poor delivery into the forward 50, meant that we could not capitalise on all the hard effort.

We are now clearly in development phase time, rather than winning every match possible. That means we will have to persevere with the likes of Sippos - is he a forward or back, more game time so that silly mistakes aren't made, Newnes - far to light to compete, but needs game time. Stanley - a back or a ruck/forward. Needs more game time. Simpkin for Blake. Milne out an persevere with Milera and Saad. ...... etc etc, I could go on.

As supporters we need to accept where we are now at and perhaps be happy for a while with "the effort" and not be too critical of "the outcome."

[bergholt]

I'm actually struggling to see what the game plan is.

Serious? It's not complicated:

- Win the ball inside defensive 50 with weight of numbers.
- Look for a decent out kick to a man free on a half-back flank.
- Once we have clean possession outside defensive 50, play on at all costs down the wings - fast break through the zone defence.
- Get the ball inside 50 as quickly as possible, looking for a tall target but bombing if necessary.
- Hope that weight of forward 50 entries leads to chances for the small forwards.

That's the plan as executed so far. It's falling down because:

- Disposal is poor so we're missing targets down the ground.
- Entries inside 50 don't seem to work - probably because we're missing targets down the ground so the midfield don't have any time to think.

Not sure if this will improve.

[Munga]

Was it Jeans that said: win the contest, make the right decision and execute effectively

[ShanghaiSaint]

At times I could see our game plan "potentially" being very effective. We were often bringing the ball out of defence and simply had Richmond beaten on the rebound, but time and time again we'd either make a terrible decision or shank the kick (or both) to give up the scoring opportunity and give the Tigers a reprieve despite their ordinary pressure.

It's not just skills that we lack - it's intelligence. Schneider stood out so much when he came on because he would quickly pick a team mate in a good position and kick the ball to them. It sounds simple but our inability to do that is why we lost, and why we'll be a bottom 8 side rather than a top 8 side.

The move of Stanley to defence was also made far too late. In his brief time there he has be super-impressive and he was a big reason for our resurgence late in the game, as Richmond just couldn't get it past him. Personally I would have had him start on Riewoldt. Blake tries his guts out and can take a mediocre tall forward, but not a genuine matchwinner.

Our forward line was a mess all day. Milera offered absolutely nothing and Saad was leading like a FF and not crumbing. Maister did his job - no complaints there and Roo had a great game. But structurally we were awful. All of our forwards were playing behind their opponents as though our main avenue to scoring was hoping the ball was booted past the contest so we could run onto it. With Schneider's return Milera should go for another midfield rotation. Siposs is struggling in defence and I'd like to see him given an extended run as that true medium marking HF we've been looking for since Hamill retired.

The positives for me were

Stanley - unstoppable in defence, looks like a much more athletic, quicker Fletcher
Steven - excellent game. He and Geary would have to be the fittest guys at the club, great clearance work and improved ball use
McEvoy - flogged Maric all night all over the ground
Roo - vintage performance

Overall I was surprised or upset with our performance. We put in a much better effort than last week and the only thing separating the two teams was the 9 free kicks in Richmond's forward line to our 1. Even up the umpiring and we'd have a 2-3 goal win, but that's not to say we're any good.

Going forward Milera has to go for a midfielder and Blake should go for Simpkin. I don't think we'll ever get anywhere with Clint Jones panicking and turning it over every time he's under pressure but Watters seems to love him so there's not much point in talking about it. Newnes got a bit of the ball but was involved in about 7-8 contests with an opponent and lost them all; he's not nearly strong enough yet and we're conceding a position if he plays.

very good post, agree!

[ShanghaiSaint]

I'm actually struggling to see what the game plan is.

Serious? It's not complicated:

- Win the ball inside defensive 50 with weight of numbers.
- Look for a decent out kick to a man free on a half-back flank.
- Once we have clean possession outside defensive 50, play on at all costs down the wings - fast break through the zone defence.
- Get the ball inside 50 as quickly as possible, looking for a tall target but bombing if necessary.
- Hope that weight of forward 50 entries leads to chances for the small forwards.

That's the plan as executed so far. It's falling down because:

- Disposal is poor so we're missing targets down the ground.
- Entries inside 50 don't seem to work - probably because we're missing targets down the ground so the midfield don't have any time to think.

Not sure if this will improve.

Thanks for that post berg, i see that now... exicution is the big issue.

[gringo]

To me we are under siege down back. maister, Terry Milera and Milney even were running back to help the defence. We were going so well we played 3/4 with a broken arm Dempster. Fisher, Simkin & dempster were missing the last few weeks then Gwilt had to go down. Add the fact that Siposs looks flat and Gram and goddard are gone and we look less than solid down there.

Lenny is still looking like he's in holiday mode for him and Milney is only just going and Saad has dropped off a bit. Probably just needing some readjustment. West Coast had a shocking run with injury and now look like they got the double of development into kids and some great pick in the draft.

[Doctor Two]

Its the way we move the ball - we are a poorly skilled team but the WATTERS wants these players to be able to hit leading targets lace out. We have no size or winners in defence, hence our mids have to push too far back and we dont have the run or pace to be able to carry the ball forward. Hence the reliance on hitting leading targets thru the centre of the ground rather than kicking the across our half forward line.

On the other hand, could not believe the way Richmond were able to shred our press last night with pinpoint kicking. They were able to bring the ball out of their defence then bomb it long to Jack/ Vickery/ McGuane extremely quickly just about every time. Forward pressure was just about non-existent. Not sure if our forwards are following the game plan or were just poor but for some fast players our small forwards were unable to shut down space. Hate to think what will happen when we meet a decent team

[bergholt]

Thanks for that post berg, i see that now... exicution is the big issue.

Execution in more than one way. Disposal efficiency, and winning the contest - exactly what Munga said previously. Doesn't matter what the gameplan is if you win most of the 50-50s and hit 80% of your targets.

[saintsRrising]

Guys' something is sick here... pre season we looked fast and exciting... last year we had some really nice fast running play.

so what the f%^k has happened?

old age....

If this keeps going it's going to be a very long year.

Yes indeed.

One will need to focus on developing players....rather than on wins.