The Window Has Closed

[damienc]

Ok. You were right. The people on this forum who said we were past it.

Who said we wouldn't make the finals.

Who said we'd be lucky to win 10 games this year.

But I have to say it gives me no comfort saying you were right.

In fact it makes me very sad as someone who has supported this football club for more than 50 years. Yes it tells you how old I am.

Old enough to remember us winning a premiership and the front page of the Herald Sun showing Tommy Bent's statue wearing a St Kilda jumper.

Fast forward 2013. After only two games premature as it may sound we are not going to make the finals this year.

Beaten. Dare I say well beaten by two clubs who also won't be participating in the finals either although Richmond could give it a shake.

What was very clear to me from Friday night's game is the reality that we have a lot of fading stars and no depth.

it was very much the tale of two Rooeys.

One whose star is on the rise.

The other fading. Not by lack of commitment or skill or will but simply old age.

Both champions with the same name and the same pedigree who only know how to play the game with pedal to the metal.

Watters blames past recruiting for our current woes.

He's right but this club has been built on a lot of failure and not much success.

And we better get used to 2013 being more of the same. Failure I mean.

So our solution is to rebuild. I know it's right and laudable and inevitable but very unsatisfying.

it's never going to make me stop barracking for the Saints. I couldn't even if I wanted to.

Believe me plenty of times I've thought about it.

Following the Saints is in the blood. So I will get used to us losing more than we are going to win in 2013 and look forward to Watters and his capable team picking the right talent at the next draft and encouraging the young up and comers we have already recruited.

I also take comfort in our coach who I still believe is the right man for the job and his support staff and the hope that sometime in the not too distant future the Saints will be a dominant force in the competition.

[Teflon]

good post.

Its all about supporter adjustment now.

I have to learn to calm down watching games - whats the point? we simply arent the 2009 Saints anymore where winning became the norm.

I tell my kids (both the known and unknown ones) get used to this.......for St Kilda this is how it once was regularly...they look at me in disbelief (especially after explaining to the unkowns that Im their father) but more about the Saints Im sure.

[paddy]

I say, lets not be defeatist...

embrace our status as the underdog and prove people wrong....

i dont expect much, but a scalp here and there would keep the juices flowing

[thefatdork]

I feel your pain brother, but I haven't written us off just yet - maybe in a couple of weeks after the NZ trip I might have the hope knocked out of me.
I am angry at how our past recruiting under Ross has left us - but if we'd won the big prize I wouldnt care too much.
There's a lot to love about the Saints and I like our coach and the club's general direction.
I just hope good times aren't too far away.
TFD

[dragit]

Good stuff Damo…

I must say that it gives me no pleasure in being right about our current status.

I wasn't around for our only premiership & the 2009 loss I will probably never fully get over until we perhaps win one.

But after our sustained run of relative success, I am open minded about the prospect of dropping down the ladder again & I think it is necessary in order to unearth our next couple of superstars… can't wait till we have our own Cotchin.

I am also really looking forward to seeing some our recent draftees… White, Lee, Murdoch, Wright, Markworth… Also more of Hickey, Ross, Ledger, Siposs & Newnes

I can handle seeing us lose, as long as there is a glimmer of something to look forward to… but it pains me to watch us lose with too many players well past their prime.

Things are going to get worse before they get better, but maybe that is necessary in order to get some absolute premium talent to the club.

Stay strong sainters, enjoy the little things.

[desertsaint]

Haven't given up on finals. Still far too much footy left. But happy with any win we nab - one week at a time. If we click at some stage and get a few in a row we're back in the hunt. Only difference is that finals will be a bonus now, rather than an expectation.

[chook23]

Sentiment in this post.......

first there is denial

then the agreeing the slide is on AND IS HAPPENING BEFORE US

WHAT HURTS EVERYONE SO MUCH IS THAT WE DID NOT FEEL THE EUPHORIA Of WINNING THAT 2ND FLAG WHEN OUR CHANCE WAS THERE..........

I remember the scenes vividly in the isles of opposition supporters at 2009 and 2010 when the new they had it won....

I said to my son ...... wish so badly to feel how they must be feeling at that time.

I must admit I have struggled at every game since with those emotions.....I just dont enjoy going to the footy at the moment.......

Have to prob see a winning one to remove those scars

It so difficult.....the players who went through it.....some have dealt with it better that others

In some ways I have become bitter and hate the game at the moment

Hoping time will ease it for me and saint supporters who may feel the same.

Keep supporting the RBW


ps I was a teenager at 71

[asiu]

bitter 'n scarred is me2
... what an effen waste.

[BigMart]

This was what I was posting about last week

Accepting our fate of being mediocre.... Some clubs and supporters won't do that!!!!!

[asaint]

[quote="chook23"]Sentiment in this post.......

first there is denial

then the agreeing the slide is on AND IS HAPPENING BEFORE US

WHAT HURTS EVERYONE SO MUCH IS THAT WE DID NOT FEEL THE EUPHORIA Of WINNING THAT 2ND FLAG WHEN OUR CHANCE WAS THERE..........

I remember the scenes vividly in the isles of opposition supporters at 2009 and 2010 when the new they had it won....

I said to my son ...... wish so badly to feel how they must be feeling at that time.

I must admit I have struggled at every game since with those emotions.....I just dont enjoy going to the footy at the moment.......

Have to prob see a winning one to remove those scars

It so difficult.....the players who went through it.....some have dealt with it better that others

In some ways I have become bitter and hate the game at the moment

Hoping time will ease it for me and saint supporters who may feel the same.

Keep supporting the RBW




+1
Add to this , I have also lost my sense of humour to anything football related.

[dragit]

This was what I was posting about last week

Accepting our fate of being mediocre.... Some clubs and supporters won't do that!!!!!

That doesn't make sense, nearly every club has been on the bottom (bottom 4) in the past 20 years. Carlton supporters may have never accepted being mediocre, but it didn't stop them from being absolute rubbish for most of a decade.

[bobmurray]

Good on you lot for catching up...some of us knew we were shite well before others would accept it...


Thank F*** we aren't as bad as Melbourne........yet

[Enrico_Misso]

Damienc - it pains me greatly to admit it but I think you are right.

As a supporter since the 60s I fear our best side ever is now beyond delivering a flag.
And despite 9 good years it has failed to deliver.

If that super young 2004 side that then evolved over 9 years couldn't do it - How can we ever win a flag?
With 18 teams and blatent AFL biais to favour the new strategic demographics I now fear I will go to my grave without seeing a flag.

[WellardSaint]

Tigers vs Bluescum got 80k attendance, our game got a lot less.
Those in power at AFL House are running a business, & of course they would prefer to see Tigers or Blues do better than us. More money.
If I were the CEO of Jims Mowing; the franchises in richer suburbs would get better treatment than, say, one of the Western Suburbs (Melbourne I'm referring to)
I would assist those richer ones with financial advice, etc. before Braybrook, Sunshine, Hoppers Crossing etc.
Remember that final against the Pies where Fat Eddie was 2 metres from Fat Andy, they both looked devastated while we destroyed the Pies. This Fat Cat was the CEO. Clearly showed where his heart lay. $$$

[saintsRrising]

I also take comfort in our coach who I still believe is the right man for the job and his support staff and the hope that sometime in the not too distant future the Saints will be a dominant force in the competition.

Before it matters how good or not Watters is Pelchen must do his job.

Our restructuring started when he was hired.

So far he seems to have done a good job with his trading often securing multiple picks to fastrack our rebuild.

He has made some big calls with Lee and Hickey.

The main mystery to me though is the lack of emphasis on new mids. A lot of the talk has been on gaining a new key defender, but new GOOD mids is IMO our number one long-term need.

I do think however that Pelchen does seem to be in no rush and is content to gather players over say 4-5 seasons.


How good Pelchen will be, it is too early to really tell. By the end of this season though I think we will have gained a good appreciation though of whether we are tracking in the right direction.

[Griggsy]

I have to agree also, my view as a supporter as changed. I will be less upset when we lose, more glad when we win. My expectations will be taken away from finals and the W-L column, bringing my focus onto how well the future of this club is playing.

However I don't think I will handle it so well if we became like Melbourne is currently, or Richmond for the last 30 years. Hard enough being a saints supporter. In my mid 20s so I havn't been through as much as some but it still hurts, can't imagine what some of you feel (not that I'm calling anyone old )

[Verdun66]

Always thought we were rebuilding over these past couple of years, but trying to stay competitive. Maybe we can still do that and finish mid-table. We sure have made some recruiting blunders in the past 10 years or so. Most teams have a few duds, but we have had more than our share. Hopefully the last two years will start to put it right.

I seem to remember a reason that we and some other clubs didn't really go after mid-fielders in the last 2 or 3 years. The recent drafts have been so compromised with the new franchises stocking up on the mid-field guns that it was thought other positions were better value where our picks were situated. Next year it will be a little more normal, and for the first time in a long while we will have room in our salary cap. I reckon some heavy trading will continue in the positions we are deficient in.

Knightmare on BF has a very early Phantom Draft and has got us with pick 7...may not be far off.

#7 St Kilda - Nicholas Robertson (WA – Mid)
Height: 187cm, Weight: 79kg, DOB: 04/04/1995
Recruited from: West Perth
Style:
Player comparison: Steele Sidebottom (Taller)
Range: 5-15
Profile: Real quality running midfielder with outstanding endurance and that ability to run all day and finds plenty of the footy. Probably more outside but has some hardness and can win his own ball. Tackling game strong and gives that effort both ways. Skill level good and an above average user of the footy by both hand and foot. As a relatively tall midfielder plenty of potential to continue to develop his game.

A few guys who are v good mid-fielders are around that mark. Long way off, but as someone said it is probably about a 4-5 year plan.

[saintspremiers]

I don't want a Roberton and Robertson in the same side.

One of them will have to change their name to Plugger!

[stevie]

Still totally baffled how a team of s*** kickers like Shitney won the flag last year. There is no justice in this world.

[OneEyedSainter77]

I don't think any team will be as bad as Melbourne currently are. With the greatest of respect to their players, they look like they just don't care.

Anyway, enough about them. Us.

Simply put, I had (like last year) no real expectation about this year. Just wanted to see us continue to play positively and not try and tank. To be honest, the way we played the first two matches this year, we won't need to tank in order to finish in the bottom four. Port and Brisbane have overtaken us I feel. We were on par with north, blues, tigers and bombers and they are all ahead of us now. We are better than GWS and Melbourne, on par with bulldogs and Gold Coast. So there's a real possibility we could finish bottom four anyway.

I don't think we will though. Perhaps bottom six but not four. Having no expectation means you don't necessarily place a high importance on winning football games. I love watching us play and love when we are winning but to be honest, supporting st Kilda has felt kind of hollow since 2011.

Now I place more importance on my family and other things ahead of football. I'll raise my boys as sainters and will watch games and stuff but footy has taken a back seat since after 2010.

We won the wooden spoon the year I was born (1984) and it took us another eight years to play finals (1991) and fourteen to make a grand final (97).

I fear my boys are in for a similar ride as me. Playground taunts and stuff like that. Only it might be different for them. One day young Aidan will come home from school and say "Daddy, what's a rapist?" I dread those days.

All is not lost but at the same time, we won't be seriously challenging for a flag anytime soon.

I for one am looking forward to seeing how I personally take it. In 2001-3 I remember actually not even knowing when the football games were on. I would literally find out by the news reports or checking the papers. I can't see myself ever giving up in footy to they extent. No matter how bad we get.

[bergholt]

I have to learn to calm down watching games - whats the point? we simply arent the 2009 Saints anymore where winning became the norm.

Yep, we'll all soon drop back to the 2002/2003/early 2004 mindset, when it was all about watching some exciting kids develop (Kosi, Roo, X, Goose, Bally, Dal, BJ, L Fish, Joey), and some disappointing ones (Beetham, Plapp, Walton, Chris Oliver, Chad Davis), farewelling some champs (Stewie, Burkie, Spider) and having a good day out at the footy regardless of the result.

No doubt it's going to take a couple of years for us to actually adjust to it (hopefully none like 2000) but we'll be there soon.

[perfectionist]

Closed one millisecond after the final siren in 2010 GF1.

[spert]

Watters said it all when he mentioned the poor recruiting of 2008-2011 (Lyon), so it really is a rebuilding period. I'm sure we will win plenty of games, but we will drop a lot we would expect to win on the way, and will miss Goddard and Gram's experience. There is still more recruiting to be done, so lets get behind the club and look forward to a new era in a few years. I want to see guys like Wright, Murdoch, Dunnell, Ross etc all getting senior game time soon.

[PJ]

I'm more worried about the mindset of the players now that Watters has said publicly we are in rebuild. Do they now believe that losing is an acceptable option. Is so we are in for some long term pain.

[cwrcyn]

Surely, no one is surprised by our current situation. However, i think Watters knew where we stood the moment he walked in the door and along with Pelchen is trying to remedy the situation with a clear eye on developing a new group while getting every last drop out of the old guys. We all knew the recruiting and list management under
Lyon was close to the worst in the AFL and that it would bite us on the backside soon enough.

Thankfully, we have a realistic coach who has stated on radio that he will not be chasing 28 year olds during this re-build stage (unlike Melbourne). I'll be happy if he has the same philosophy on recruitment as Grant Thomas. Watters also stated that 1st round picks would be kept and used on the best young talent.


It's not the end of the world, merely the end of a cycle, and it can be turned around with good decisions. A couple of other clubs may find themselves in a similar situation in the next couple of years, notably Hawthorn. Long term success in the AFL is not winning premierships, it's maintaining a good to high level of performance year in, year out that keeps your supporters believing. This is why Collingwood was a success between 1959 and 1989 without winning the flag.

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing some new players in the mix, even if we're not winning as many games. We have no other choice. We must keep evolving. The past is where it belongs.