Sliding doors

[plugger66]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

[Con Gorozidis]

depressing thought.

[Wayne42]

That's history, that's the fork in the road i mentioned in another thread..
We appear to be inept as a club, we may not win another one in our lifetime.
We have to get our excitement winning games, the Hawks get theirs winning flags.....

[loris]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

The worst part of 1971 GF................... I lived at the next door unit to Bob Keddie! He was a lovely neighbour, however, it took me a few days before I could offer my congratulations to him.

[Stephen Theodore]

Funny you should write this plugger.

I logged in to say similar and seen your post. I was at that 71 G.F. And have kept that thought all of these years, we were one flag all and very similar clubs from my memory.

It's a shattering truth that it's now 12 to 1. I watched the presentation this arvo and thought exactly that.

It comes down to our inept admin over the last 40 years, simple as that.

[loris]

Funny you should write this plugger.

I logged in to say similar and seen your post. I was at that 71 G.F. And have kept that thought all of these years, we were one flag all and very similar clubs from my memory.

It's a shattering truth that it's now 12 to 1. I watched the presentation this arvo and thought exactly that.

It comes down to our inept admin over the last 40 years, simple as that.

And to think 3 of those flags they got with Jeans as their coach................... he learnt his craft and honed his skills at the Saints

[Wayne42]

We all ponder what might have been in the 71 Grand Final, however,it took us 26 years to get back to a Grand Final to get the chance to redeem, but, again, we weren't up to it.

[Stephen Theodore]

Funny you should write this plugger.

I logged in to say similar and seen your post. I was at that 71 G.F. And have kept that thought all of these years, we were one flag all and very similar clubs from my memory.

It's a shattering truth that it's now 12 to 1. I watched the presentation this arvo and thought exactly that.

It comes down to our inept admin over the last 40 years, simple as that.

And to think 3 of those flags they got with Jeans as their coach................... he learnt his craft and honed his skills at the Saints

Yep, There's no doubt Jeans was the master coach of his day and went to a club within a settled admin

[plugger66]

We all ponder what might have been in the 71 Grand Final, however,it took us 26 years to get back to a Grand Final to get the chance to redeem, but, again, we weren't up to it.

Jarman, keddie, toe poke, bad bounce. Pissed orff. Tears again. Got to stop going to the Grand Final.

[Dave McNamara]

That's the only GF that made me cry... my excuse being I was pretty little then.


But, that loss has nothing do with why our history unfolded (unravelled) a couple of years later.

As I posted in the other thread on this topic... our spiral to near death was purely due to economics.

Interests rates skyrocketed, and the club's manageable debt repayments on building-up Moorabbin... became unmanageable.







That's why the second time I cried was not 1997, but when they let the bulldozers into Moorabbin.

[Wayne42]

That's the only GF that made me cry... my excuse being I was pretty little then.


But, that loss has nothing do with why our history unfolded (unravelled) a couple of years later.

As I posted in the other thread on this topic... our spiral to near death was purely due to economics.

Interests rates skyrocketed, and the club's manageable debt repayments on building-up Moorabbin... became unmanageable.
That's why the second time I cried was not 1997, but when they let the bulldozers into Moorabbin.

Hawthorn almost folded, they then tried to merge with Melbourne only to be thwarted by Don Scott.

They have since gone on to win multiple flags.

Crying over a 1970's Grandstand debt doesn't cut it because the Hawks had their own debt problems and tried to merge to overcome them, didn't merge but worked themselves out of their malaise, we , on the other hand, drowned in our problems and look on them as an excuse for our ineptness...

[Dave McNamara]

Yes and no I reckon Wayne.

We crashed 100% because of our debt. (Whilst Nuff Nuff spent nothing on players nor their pathetic little ground for years, saved up, then bought themselves some flags, whilst the VFL gave them use of the MCG as a home ground... but that's another story... )

By the time the Dawks got into trouble helping build the white elephant Elliott Stand, they had 25 years of success built up behind them... made it a lot easier to bail themselves out.

I should also add that the hypocritical so-called 'family club' make tens and tens of millions of dollars from from families in lower income areas poker machines. We make relatively next to nothing from the pokies... and I'm proud of that!

That said, we stuffed-up shifting home games from Moorabbin, and stuffed-up even further in letting the bulldozers in. The interstate monstrosities have a huge home ground advantage, the Hillbillies very wisely still do too... no other victorian club does...

I also think that we have failed over a long period of time to properly latch-on to our huge supporter base. I'd argue that our supporter base is up there with anyone's in number terms, but hardly so in membership number terms. I've always found this particularly galling, given that we have the coolest and most marketable club in the competition, but we've never tapped into that. JO will provide the opportunity to finally put that right.

So yep Wayne, I reckon a bit of yes and no, re what you've written.

[desertsaint]

Sliding moment for me was round 1 1979. I was a halfhearted hawk supporter whose favourite player was Knights. But more into Port Adelaide and SANFL, and most into Man United. Come 1979 I was by chance watching the round one game (normally playing sport all saturday and sunday so never got to see full games - only highlights - hence half-hearted) and something about the saints (who i wasn't even aware of) appealed to me (love at first sight) and i cheered them on as they scored an upset win. What a horrid decade followed, but I never wavered in my support since, and was at footy park cheering them to victory and the minor prem in 97 against port adelaide. Sometimes wonder if i was cursed or charmed to turn on the tv that day in 79. Love the saints.

[sasaint]

Successive Saints administrations have badly managed the club. So clearly demonstrated by the Hawks now wearing the Tassie sponsorship that we walked away from. My strong hope is that the man that had a significant hand in building the current Hawks list is now doing the same for the Saints, and I for one trust him and the new administration to win us that very elusive second flag.

[cwrcyn]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

[Mr Magic]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

This.

[SaintPav]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

It's worse than that. Note score board late in the 3rd.

[matrix]

get over it

we'll get there eventually

[plugger66]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

Its an excuse but it doesn't hold in the AFL where they have won 3 in the last 8 years still to our none since zoning finished. Also it had no bearing on us 20 points up in 1971 GF. We have been poorly managed for years. Obviously the Hawks were too because they nearly merged wit Melbourne but they must have also had great management over the years. Have we ever had great management? Or luck. Even Jeas admitted his coaching improved 10 fold after he left us and those teams we had in the 60's and early 70's should have done better. Saints supporters have learnt to be unlucky or down trodden and the 43 years since that game sort of proves it.

[damienc]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

Forget the past. Concentrate on the future. Nothing else matters. And if we get our recruiting right and you would have to say so far so good, we will add to the premiership trophy cabinet. Have faith in Pelchen and Richo. They are as hungry as we all are. But they are the only blokes who can do something about it.

[plugger66]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

Forget the past. Concentrate on the future. Nothing else matters. And if we get our recruiting right and you would have to say so far so good, we will add to the premiership trophy cabinet. Have faith in Pelchen and Richo. They are as hungry as we all are. But they are the only blokes who can do something about it.

Ok then. I hope no one says Rod Owen was a star. You do realise it doesn't matter what you or me talk or think about. It has no bearing what so ever on anything the Saints do. None. By the way I have little faith in Pelchen that doesn't mean you cant have faith. AR well its to early. Hopefully he is Hinkley like. That would be great for the club.

[Mr Magic]

Like others who have commented in this thread, I was at the 1971 game.
My recollection is that just before 3 quarter time Ditterich was chasing the play through the middle of the ground and Hawthorn player Mike Porter landed a heavy punch.
In all the years of watching him it was the nly time I eer saw Big Carl 'staggered' by a punch.
In the last quarter Ditterich, who had been very effective up until then, had almost zero effect on the game.
Hawthorn dominated the footy in the middle.
Keddie tore Colling a new one
Jeans never made any move (very similar to Jarman in 1997)
Not long after our 'zone' was changed and we lost a number of players to Hawthorn (even Stewie Loewe was part of their 'zone' and we got him only when they decided not to take him).
The rest is history.

[plugger66]

Like others who have commented in this thread, I was at the 1971 game.
My recollection is that just before 3 quarter time Ditterich was chasing the play through the middle of the ground and Hawthorn player Mike Porter landed a heavy punch.
In all the years of watching him it was the nly time I eer saw Big Carl 'staggered' by a punch.
In the last quarter Ditterich, who had been very effective up until then, had almost zero effect on the game.
Hawthorn dominated the footy in the middle.
Keddie tore Colling a new one
Jeans never made any move (very similar to Jarman in 1997)
Not long after our 'zone' was changed and we lost a number of players to Hawthorn (even Stewie Loewe was part of their 'zone' and we got him only when they decided not to take him).
The rest is history.

It was the toughest game of footy I have ever seen and is the only GF losses I can watch for some reason. The snipping off the ball from both sides was pretty ordinary. As I pointed out jeans improved hugely as a coach when he went to the Hawks. I do wonder what would have happened had we won that flag in 1971.

[Spinner]

Yes and no I reckon Wayne.

We crashed 100% because of our debt. (Whilst Nuff Nuff spent nothing on players nor their pathetic little ground for years, saved up, then bought themselves some flags, whilst the VFL gave them use of the MCG as a home ground... but that's another story... )

By the time the Dawks got into trouble helping build the white elephant Elliott Stand, they had 25 years of success built up behind them... made it a lot easier to bail themselves out.

I should also add that the hypocritical so-called 'family club' make tens and tens of millions of dollars from from families in lower income areas poker machines. We make relatively next to nothing from the pokies... and I'm proud of that!

That said, we stuffed-up shifting home games from Moorabbin, and stuffed-up even further in letting the bulldozers in. The interstate monstrosities have a huge home ground advantage, the Hillbillies very wisely still do too... no other victorian club does...

I also think that we have failed over a long period of time to properly latch-on to our huge supporter base. I'd argue that our supporter base is up there with anyone's in number terms, but hardly so in membership number terms. I've always found this particularly galling, given that we have the coolest and most marketable club in the competition, but we've never tapped into that. JO will provide the opportunity to finally put that right.

So yep Wayne, I reckon a bit of yes and no, re what you've written.

How does anyone argue that our supporter base is big? What you see lot of saints people on the train?

I would suggest we have a small supporter base, membership numbers, crowd figures relative to the other teams in the comp over a long period of time strong suggest this.

[dragit]

Got a text from a mate yesterday in the last quarter saying that he thought this was one of his favourite premierships to watch & I thought "isn't that swell"


Terrific, yay hawthorn!