Sliding doors

[plugger66]

Got a text from a mate yesterday in the last quarter saying that he thought this was one of his favourite premierships to watch & I thought "isn't that swell"


Terrific, yay hawthorn!

I sat with a friend on friends kid yesterday who was 19 and had just watched his third flag. I was so happy for him. Is there a sarcasm emoticon.

[whiskers3614]

One of my daughters goes for Brisbane and had seen 3 flags by her early teens,
her mother who barracks for Richmond warned against over-confidence as she had also witnessed a few early on and not much since.

I just remained mute!

[plugger66]

One of my daughters goes for Brisbane and had seen 3 flags by her early teens,
her mother who barracks for Richmond warned against over-confidence as she had also witnessed a few early on and not much since.

I just remained mute!

My question is how did you let that happen?

[whiskers3614]

Complete failure as a father or didn't want to perpetuate the suffering??

[dragit]

One of my girls goes for "the cats" apparently.

[SaintPav]

Got a text from a mate yesterday in the last quarter saying that he thought this was one of his favourite premierships to watch & I thought "isn't that swell"


Terrific, yay hawthorn!

Yep, I'm so ecstatic for them.

[wally]

I was also at the 71 grand final.
Obviously the hawks have kicked on but it also doesn't seem that long ago that they nearly folded,a merger with Melb. was what
was going to happen, I still can vividly remember Don Scott standing up and ripping the almalgamated jumper apart, when was that
in the 90's?

[SaintPav]

Sliding moment for me was round 1 1979. I was a halfhearted hawk supporter whose favourite player was Knights. But more into Port Adelaide and SANFL, and most into Man United. Come 1979 I was by chance watching the round one game (normally playing sport all saturday and sunday so never got to see full games - only highlights - hence half-hearted) and something about the saints (who i wasn't even aware of) appealed to me (love at first sight) and i cheered them on as they scored an upset win. What a horrid decade followed, but I never wavered in my support since, and was at footy park cheering them to victory and the minor prem in 97 against port adelaide. Sometimes wonder if i was cursed or charmed to turn on the tv that day in 79. Love the saints.

In around 1982 I decided to stop supporting the Saints and went for the Hawks. That lasted for about 5 days.

The irony was that lived a ten minute walk away from Windy Hill.

[HardSaint]

I was a baby in 1971 but for my whole family on both sides it was a black day and spelled the end of the the possibilities of the 60s for the saints - call it our Altamont or Manson family moment
My old man knew Bob Keddie's brother (Asher's old man) and I was made aware of the fact that his brother was the one who did the Saints over in 1971 - to make matters worse when I was about 10, my dad was overseas and Bob Keddie, who was a good friend of our neighbour's, arrived with at our door with a bottle of wine with the intention of wooing my mum in my father's absence - the myth of his villainy in my mind just grew

[plugger66]

I was a baby in 1971 but for my whole family on both sides it was a black day and spelled the end of the the possibilities of the 60s for the saints - call it our Altamont or Manson family moment
My old man knew Bob Keddie's brother (Asher's old man) and I was made aware of the fact that his brother was the one who did the Saints over in 1971 - to make matters worse when I was about 10, my dad was overseas and Bob Keddie, who was a good friend of our neighbour's, arrived with at our door with a bottle of wine with the intention of wooing my mum in my father's absence - the myth of his villainy in my mind just grew

How did he go?

[HardSaint]

I was a baby in 1971 but for my whole family on both sides it was a black day and spelled the end of the the possibilities of the 60s for the saints - call it our Altamont or Manson family moment
My old man knew Bob Keddie's brother (Asher's old man) and I was made aware of the fact that his brother was the one who did the Saints over in 1971 - to make matters worse when I was about 10, my dad was overseas and Bob Keddie, who was a good friend of our neighbour's, arrived with at our door with a bottle of wine with the intention of wooing my mum in my father's absence - the myth of his villainy in my mind just grew

How did he go?

Not too well

[Stephen Theodore]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

It's worse than that. Note score board late in the 3rd.

From memory, hawthorn kicked a goal close to 3/4 time to bring that margin down to 20 points.

In the conditions in which that game was played, should have been enough.

[Freebird]

Hawthorn had one of the stronger Zones we had the weakest
Zones were meant to be temp but the clubs who received the stronger zones would not give up ground, this was the biggest hurdle for saints.

Hawthorn admit it was the making of their club

[remboy]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

Yep, beat me to it. From that point on they got everyone from Don Scott to Dermott Brereton from our zone. Became a powerhouse of the 70s and 80s and we've been struggling since

[plugger66]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

Yep, beat me to it. From that point on they got everyone from Don Scott to Dermott Brereton from our zone. Became a powerhouse of the 70s and 80s and we've been struggling since

That's true but that doesn't explain 3 flags in 8 years. It cant be all luck or all our bad luck.

[Trev from the Bush]

Thanks for renewing my recurring nightmare of Bob Keddie, Plugs! Yeah, thanks.

Seriously, though, Keddie was as valued by Hawthorn 43 years ago as Rioli is today and just as dangerous when swooping on the loose ball.

The Hawks have been an interesting club to watch their progress from no-hopers in the '50's to the most successful club in the competition since Keddie traumatized all Saint supporters in '71. They won their first flag in 1961; as a young kid I decided I would be a Saints supporter the following year. This was a typically illogical decision of the type that has plaugued my life ever since. Why would a kid who grew up within a couple of miles from what is now Whitten Oval choose to barrack for a club that, even then, was the worst performed in the competition?

Fast forward to the 1980's. In late 1988 I attended a weekend, live-in, VCFL administration seminar at Monash University. One of the guest speakers was the great Graham Arthur, captain of the Hawks '61 premiership team and, later, playing coach. At this time he was in a marketing and membership development role with Hawthorn. He struck me as a genuinely top bloke defined by the fact I remember what he said so well.

The Hawks still used Princes Park as their home ground; 3 years before adopting Waverley Park for their home games.

Arthur told us he and his team were actively door knocking and visiting every small business, tradesmen and house in the vicinity of Waverley selling the virtues of "the family club" and how beneficial it could be for all concerned if they took up a HFC membership. Remember, this is 3 years before becoming a tenant in Melbourne's fastest growing area in what was then considered Melbourne's geographical centre.

It is interesting that StKilda has now been at Seaford for 3 years and only recently devised a plan to target "Port to Portsea" as its membership heartland. The Hawks had at least 6 years start on claiming the South-Eastern suburbs by the time we bunked out of Moorabbin and headed to Waverley. The Saints had nothing to plunder when we arrived.

Twelve premierships to nil since the 1971 Grand Final is not so much as a "sliding door" moment but well laid and executed planning by a club that became the ultimate professionals years before any other club realized that good enough was just not good enough.

Love them or hate them, you have to acknowledge and admire the great Hawthorn Football Club.

[remboy]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

Yep, beat me to it. From that point on they got everyone from Don Scott to Dermott Brereton from our zone. Became a powerhouse of the 70s and 80s and we've been struggling since

That's true but that doesn't explain 3 flags in 8 years. It cant be all luck or all our bad luck.

I think it had a lot to do with Hawthorn becoming successful from that point and StKilda dropping down the ladder through the rest of the 70s. Possibly helped set t he Hawks up for the 80s. But, yes, the only bearing it has now is that the Hawks have an expectation of success that we don't have.

[plugger66]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

Yep, beat me to it. From that point on they got everyone from Don Scott to Dermott Brereton from our zone. Became a powerhouse of the 70s and 80s and we've been struggling since

That's true but that doesn't explain 3 flags in 8 years. It cant be all luck or all our bad luck.

I think it had a lot to do with Hawthorn becoming successful from that point and StKilda dropping down the ladder through the rest of the 70s. Possibly helped set t he Hawks up for the 80s. But, yes, the only bearing it has now is that the Hawks have an expectation of success that we don't have.

That also maybe true if they hadn't just about merged. They were going worth than us in the 90's. Its all about your committee IMO and they have had some great ones since the nearly merger.

[remboy]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

Yep, beat me to it. From that point on they got everyone from Don Scott to Dermott Brereton from our zone. Became a powerhouse of the 70s and 80s and we've been struggling since

That's true but that doesn't explain 3 flags in 8 years. It cant be all luck or all our bad luck.

I think it had a lot to do with Hawthorn becoming successful from that point and StKilda dropping down the ladder through the rest of the 70s. Possibly helped set t he Hawks up for the 80s. But, yes, the only bearing it has now is that the Hawks have an expectation of success that we don't have.

That also maybe true if they hadn't just about merged. They were going worth than us in the 90's. Its all about your committee IMO and they have had some great ones since the nearly merger.

True. No doubt it can't reduced a single factor but for club that has never had a sustained period of success, losing our zone at that that time was one of the worst things that could have happened and was completely out of the clubs hands. There's been many decisions made since then which have been our own doing.

[stinger]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

The worst part of 1971 GF................... I lived at the next door unit to Bob Keddie! He was a lovely neighbour, however, it took me a few days before I could offer my congratulations to him.

i really liked asher keddie until about 15 seconds ago.....interesting comments you have quoted from another poster...

...the hawks were given our recruiting grounds and we were given fuckng ballarat.....but hey...we did get burnsie, plugger and spud...

[gringo]

I was thinking wouldn't it have been nice if the top three in the draft hadn't left us with Ball instead of Judd or Hodge -could have been that sliding door moment that won us a couple more. Hodge has been the pick of the three in the end from the way he just keeps the standard high and lift for big games. Judd was miles in front for the first 4 or 5 years.

[stinger]

Thanks for renewing my recurring nightmare of Bob Keddie, Plugs! Yeah, thanks.

Seriously, though, Keddie was as valued by Hawthorn 43 years ago as Rioli is today and just as dangerous when swooping on the loose ball.

The Hawks have been an interesting club to watch their progress from no-hopers in the '50's to the most successful club in the competition since Keddie traumatized all Saint supporters in '71. They won their first flag in 1961; as a young kid I decided I would be a Saints supporter the following year. This was a typically illogical decision of the type that has plaugued my life ever since. Why would a kid who grew up within a couple of miles from what is now Whitten Oval choose to barrack for a club that, even then, was the worst performed in the competition?

Fast forward to the 1980's. In late 1988 I attended a weekend, live-in, VCFL administration seminar at Monash University. One of the guest speakers was the great Graham Arthur, captain of the Hawks '61 premiership team and, later, playing coach. At this time he was in a marketing and membership development role with Hawthorn. He struck me as a genuinely top bloke defined by the fact I remember what he said so well.

The Hawks still used Princes Park as their home ground; 3 years before adopting Waverley Park for their home games.

Arthur told us he and his team were actively door knocking and visiting every small business, tradesmen and house in the vicinity of Waverley selling the virtues of "the family club" and how beneficial it could be for all concerned if they took up a HFC membership. Remember, this is 3 years before becoming a tenant in Melbourne's fastest growing area in what was then considered Melbourne's geographical centre.

It is interesting that StKilda has now been at Seaford for 3 years and only recently devised a plan to target "Port to Portsea" as its membership heartland. The Hawks had at least 6 years start on claiming the South-Eastern suburbs by the time we bunked out of Moorabbin and headed to Waverley. The Saints had nothing to plunder when we arrived.

Twelve premierships to nil since the 1971 Grand Final is not so much as a "sliding door" moment but well laid and executed planning by a club that became the ultimate professionals years before any other club realized that good enough was just not good enough.

Love them or hate them, you have to acknowledge and admire the great Hawthorn Football Club.

i grew up in ashburton...which was always hawthorn's territory...up to warrigal road...over it you were in tiger territory ..although nearly all the housing commission residents in ashburton had been relocated from richmond slums and were , in the main tiger supporters.. catholic families with heaps of kids.....hawks were not all that popular.....even though i worked at the old glenferie oval as a "lollyboy", i was never wrapped in them....in the early 60's they were a filthy team ....brendon edwards being one of the worst snipers.......i still remember what they did to us late in 1961 at their home ground...mongrels....

[ace]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

I may be wrong but I think Hawthorn's home ground at that time was still the Sardine Can sometimes known as Glenferie Oval.
But St Kilda had made a wise move in the 1960s to move to Moorabbin where they were welcomed by the Moorabbin City Council.

St Kilda took on a lot of debt to fund that move and the construction at Moorabin.
That was fine. Australia was well governed, the economy was stable and growing and interest rates low and stable.
Wise that was so long as we didn't have a squandering Labor government.
Sadly in 1972 the Australian people showed that it takes more than intelligence to elect good governments, intelligent people also need to use their intelligence wisely.
In a fit of gross stupidity the Australian people elected a bunch of economic lunatics to govern the country.
The first of 3 times they have made this mistake in the last 50 years.
The economic lunatics set about squandering money as if it was confetti.
The national debt launched into space and interest rates followed.
The subsequent Coalition government elected at the end of 1975 took way too long to bring the inflation rate and interest rates back under control.

St Kilda FC had borrowed in low interest rates and, like the Christopher Skase and Alan Bond later were burned by the Keating interest rate spike, so St Kilda was burned by the stupidity of the Whitlam Labor government.
St Kilda did not revert to fraud and crime to save the empire like Skase and Bond but came very close.
Instead they offered creditors a pittance for every dollar owed.
Lindsay Fox made it clear to coaches, players and businesses alike that they could choose between a pittance or nothing.
A lot of players and Alan Jeans lost a bundle owed.
St Kilda fell into a major decline during the 1980s as a consequence.
Hawthorn without the financial disaster of St Kilda enjoyed repeated premiership successes in the 1980s.

Later there were moves by the AFL to force Hawthorn into partnerships with other clubs but former Hawthorn great Don Scott rallied Hawthorn supporters to put the club back on the right financial track.
Hawthorn remained independent and has prospered.
St Kilda has never really recovered from the disaster of the Moorabbin move and the election of the economic lunatics of Whitlam Labor.

[whiskers3614]

Thank you for that history lesson,
could we now please have a lesson on "pig-iron Bob", " all the way with LBJ' and all the great things John Winston did for us!

[SaintPav]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

I may be wrong but I think Hawthorn's home ground at that time was still the Sardine Can sometimes known as Glenferie Oval.
But St Kilda had made a wise move in the 1960s to move to Moorabbin where they were welcomed by the Moorabbin City Council.

St Kilda took on a lot of debt to fund that move and the construction at Moorabin.
That was fine. Australia was well governed, the economy was stable and growing and interest rates low and stable.
Wise that was so long as we didn't have a squandering Labor government.
Sadly in 1972 the Australian people showed that it takes more than intelligence to elect good governments, intelligent people also need to use their intelligence wisely.
In a fit of gross stupidity the Australian people elected a bunch of economic lunatics to govern the country.
The first of 3 times they have made this mistake in the last 50 years.
The economic lunatics set about squandering money as if it was confetti.
The national debt launched into space and interest rates followed.
The subsequent Coalition government elected at the end of 1975 took way too long to bring the inflation rate and interest rates back under control.

St Kilda FC had borrowed in low interest rates and, like the Christopher Skase and Alan Bond later were burned by the Keating interest rate spike, so St Kilda was burned by the stupidity of the Whitlam Labor government.
St Kilda did not revert to fraud and crime to save the empire like Skase and Bond but came very close.
Instead they offered creditors a pittance for every dollar owed.
Lindsay Fox made it clear to coaches, players and businesses alike that they could choose between a pittance or nothing.
A lot of players and Alan Jeans lost a bundle owed.
St Kilda fell into a major decline during the 1980s as a consequence.
Hawthorn without the financial disaster of St Kilda enjoyed repeated premiership successes in the 1980s.

Later there were moves by the AFL to force Hawthorn into partnerships with other clubs but former Hawthorn great Don Scott rallied Hawthorn supporters to put the club back on the right financial track.
Hawthorn remained independent and has prospered.
St Kilda has never really recovered from the disaster of the Moorabbin move and the election of the economic lunatics of Whitlam Labor.

Ace, linking our poor history to the myth that the ALP are poor economic managers is a real stretch.

In the 1970s there was an oil crisis and we had stagflation. The recession in the early 90s impacted most of the world.

When it comes to the global economy, Australia is a cork in an ocean. Apart from policy mistakes which are made on both sides, politicians can't really do that much.