Sliding doors

[gringo]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

I may be wrong but I think Hawthorn's home ground at that time was still the Sardine Can sometimes known as Glenferie Oval.
But St Kilda had made a wise move in the 1960s to move to Moorabbin where they were welcomed by the Moorabbin City Council.

St Kilda took on a lot of debt to fund that move and the construction at Moorabin.
That was fine. Australia was well governed, the economy was stable and growing and interest rates low and stable.
Wise that was so long as we didn't have a squandering Labor government.
Sadly in 1972 the Australian people showed that it takes more than intelligence to elect good governments, intelligent people also need to use their intelligence wisely.
In a fit of gross stupidity the Australian people elected a bunch of economic lunatics to govern the country.
The first of 3 times they have made this mistake in the last 50 years.
The economic lunatics set about squandering money as if it was confetti.
The national debt launched into space and interest rates followed.
The subsequent Coalition government elected at the end of 1975 took way too long to bring the inflation rate and interest rates back under control.

St Kilda FC had borrowed in low interest rates and, like the Christopher Skase and Alan Bond later were burned by the Keating interest rate spike, so St Kilda was burned by the stupidity of the Whitlam Labor government.
St Kilda did not revert to fraud and crime to save the empire like Skase and Bond but came very close.
Instead they offered creditors a pittance for every dollar owed.
Lindsay Fox made it clear to coaches, players and businesses alike that they could choose between a pittance or nothing.
A lot of players and Alan Jeans lost a bundle owed.
St Kilda fell into a major decline during the 1980s as a consequence.
Hawthorn without the financial disaster of St Kilda enjoyed repeated premiership successes in the 1980s.

Later there were moves by the AFL to force Hawthorn into partnerships with other clubs but former Hawthorn great Don Scott rallied Hawthorn supporters to put the club back on the right financial track.
Hawthorn remained independent and has prospered.
St Kilda has never really recovered from the disaster of the Moorabbin move and the election of the economic lunatics of Whitlam Labor.

I like how Skase and Bondy were victims.

[loris]

Thanks for renewing my recurring nightmare of Bob Keddie, Plugs! Yeah, thanks.

Seriously, though, Keddie was as valued by Hawthorn 43 years ago as Rioli is today and just as dangerous when swooping on the loose ball.

The Hawks have been an interesting club to watch their progress from no-hopers in the '50's to the most successful club in the competition since Keddie traumatized all Saint supporters in '71. They won their first flag in 1961; as a young kid I decided I would be a Saints supporter the following year. This was a typically illogical decision of the type that has plaugued my life ever since. Why would a kid who grew up within a couple of miles from what is now Whitten Oval choose to barrack for a club that, even then, was the worst performed in the competition?

Fast forward to the 1980's. In late 1988 I attended a weekend, live-in, VCFL administration seminar at Monash University. One of the guest speakers was the great Graham Arthur, captain of the Hawks '61 premiership team and, later, playing coach. At this time he was in a marketing and membership development role with Hawthorn. He struck me as a genuinely top bloke defined by the fact I remember what he said so well.

The Hawks still used Princes Park as their home ground; 3 years before adopting Waverley Park for their home games.

Arthur told us he and his team were actively door knocking and visiting every small business, tradesmen and house in the vicinity of Waverley selling the virtues of "the family club" and how beneficial it could be for all concerned if they took up a HFC membership. Remember, this is 3 years before becoming a tenant in Melbourne's fastest growing area in what was then considered Melbourne's geographical centre.

It is interesting that StKilda has now been at Seaford for 3 years and only recently devised a plan to target "Port to Portsea" as its membership heartland. The Hawks had at least 6 years start on claiming the South-Eastern suburbs by the time we bunked out of Moorabbin and headed to Waverley. The Saints had nothing to plunder when we arrived.

Twelve premierships to nil since the 1971 Grand Final is not so much as a "sliding door" moment but well laid and executed planning by a club that became the ultimate professionals years before any other club realized that good enough was just not good enough.

Love them or hate them, you have to acknowledge and admire the great Hawthorn Football Club.

i grew up in ashburton...which was always hawthorn's territory...up to warrigal road...over it you were in tiger territory ..although nearly all the housing commission residents in ashburton had been relocated from richmond slums and were , in the main tiger supporters.. catholic families with heaps of kids.....hawks were not all that popular.....even though i worked at the old glenferie oval as a "lollyboy", i was never wrapped in them....in the early 60's they were a filthy team ....brendon edwards being one of the worst snipers.......i still remember what they did to us late in 1961 at their home ground...mongrels....

In 1961, I was flatting in Park Street, Glenferrie....... I would cross Glenferrie Road and straight down Linda Crescent to the Glenferrie Oval....... it was known as the Sardine Tin, because of the narrow ground. The train line was only a good stab pass from the wing.

When the Hawks won their first grand final in 1961................. Glenferrie ROCKED!!! Glenferrie Road was just wall to wall people. The players came back to the oval with the cup, then when they left, the crowd spilled out down Glenferrie Road. The police had to stop the trams from going up Glenferrie Road to the end of the line at Cotham Road. It was pandemonium. Even though I didn't give a stuff about the Hawks, one couldn't help but get caught up in the emotion of it all.......... a first premiership is something wonderful to be part, for the supporters and any on-lookers like myself who just wanted to share the excitement of the times. All the nearby streets weren't swallowed up by Swinburne Institute as they are now, so the residents, living nearby joined in the party. The suburb had totally taken the footy team to their hearts, and didn't care about the noise and inconvenience.

Luckily 5 years on I was to experience that 'first flag emotion' once more when our glorious Saints finally got there. Again people power took over the streets, supporters flocked to the junction oval, spilled into Fitzroy street, crowds then went to Sierra's Pub and also thronged to Tommy Bent's statue. Just a moving mass of people everywhere. Police didn't have the power to stop, they just good naturedly herded us away from traffic at times.

Nowadays, it's all so controlled and stage managed. I guess we have only got Freo, GWS and the Suns to give their supporters that thrill these days of a 'first time flag'.

Our's was the best I reckon because we had to wait so long for it............. and it was won in the days when tribal loyalties meant so much.

Gee I've been lucky to have lived through the sixties................... t'was really a marvellous decade for a multitude of things........ and the Saints win was paramount

[matrix]

drafting
s*** drafting

really
in a nutshell

[stinger]

Thanks for renewing my recurring nightmare of Bob Keddie, Plugs! Yeah, thanks.

Seriously, though, Keddie was as valued by Hawthorn 43 years ago as Rioli is today and just as dangerous when swooping on the loose ball.

The Hawks have been an interesting club to watch their progress from no-hopers in the '50's to the most successful club in the competition since Keddie traumatized all Saint supporters in '71. They won their first flag in 1961; as a young kid I decided I would be a Saints supporter the following year. This was a typically illogical decision of the type that has plaugued my life ever since. Why would a kid who grew up within a couple of miles from what is now Whitten Oval choose to barrack for a club that, even then, was the worst performed in the competition?

Fast forward to the 1980's. In late 1988 I attended a weekend, live-in, VCFL administration seminar at Monash University. One of the guest speakers was the great Graham Arthur, captain of the Hawks '61 premiership team and, later, playing coach. At this time he was in a marketing and membership development role with Hawthorn. He struck me as a genuinely top bloke defined by the fact I remember what he said so well.

The Hawks still used Princes Park as their home ground; 3 years before adopting Waverley Park for their home games.

Arthur told us he and his team were actively door knocking and visiting every small business, tradesmen and house in the vicinity of Waverley selling the virtues of "the family club" and how beneficial it could be for all concerned if they took up a HFC membership. Remember, this is 3 years before becoming a tenant in Melbourne's fastest growing area in what was then considered Melbourne's geographical centre.

It is interesting that StKilda has now been at Seaford for 3 years and only recently devised a plan to target "Port to Portsea" as its membership heartland. The Hawks had at least 6 years start on claiming the South-Eastern suburbs by the time we bunked out of Moorabbin and headed to Waverley. The Saints had nothing to plunder when we arrived.

Twelve premierships to nil since the 1971 Grand Final is not so much as a "sliding door" moment but well laid and executed planning by a club that became the ultimate professionals years before any other club realized that good enough was just not good enough.

Love them or hate them, you have to acknowledge and admire the great Hawthorn Football Club.

i grew up in ashburton...which was always hawthorn's territory...up to warrigal road...over it you were in tiger territory ..although nearly all the housing commission residents in ashburton had been relocated from richmond slums and were , in the main tiger supporters.. catholic families with heaps of kids.....hawks were not all that popular.....even though i worked at the old glenferie oval as a "lollyboy", i was never wrapped in them....in the early 60's they were a filthy team ....brendon edwards being one of the worst snipers.......i still remember what they did to us late in 1961 at their home ground...mongrels....

In 1961, I was flatting in Park Street, Glenferrie....... I would cross Glenferrie Road and straight down Linda Crescent to the Glenferrie Oval....... it was known as the Sardine Tin, because of the narrow ground. The train line was only a good stab pass from the wing.

When the Hawks won their first grand final in 1961................. Glenferrie ROCKED!!! Glenferrie Road was just wall to wall people. The players came back to the oval with the cup, then when they left, the crowd spilled out down Glenferrie Road. The police had to stop the trams from going up Glenferrie Road to the end of the line at Cotham Road. It was pandemonium. Even though I didn't give a stuff about the Hawks, one couldn't help but get caught up in the emotion of it all.......... a first premiership is something wonderful to be part, for the supporters and any on-lookers like myself who just wanted to share the excitement of the times. All the nearby streets weren't swallowed up by Swinburne Institute as they are now, so the residents, living nearby joined in the party. The suburb had totally taken the footy team to their hearts, and didn't care about the noise and inconvenience.

Luckily 5 years on I was to experience that 'first flag emotion' once more when our glorious Saints finally got there. Again people power took over the streets, supporters flocked to the junction oval, spilled into Fitzroy street, crowds then went to Sierra's Pub and also thronged to Tommy Bent's statue. Just a moving mass of people everywhere. Police didn't have the power to stop, they just good naturedly herded us away from traffic at times.

Nowadays, it's all so controlled and stage managed. I guess we have only got Freo, GWS and the Suns to give their supporters that thrill these days of a 'first time flag'.

Our's was the best I reckon because we had to wait so long for it............. and it was won in the days when tribal loyalties meant so much.

Gee I've been lucky to have lived through the sixties................... t'was really a marvellous decade for a multitude of things........ and the Saints win was paramount

i probably sold you a drink or a pie...or maybe a cherry ripe...i used to hate trying to get down that wing on the railway side.....i can still see myself walking up the back stairs to the grandstand carryinng a full tray of drinks...

...i remember the trains blowing their horns and people thinking it was the siren.....i can still heare john kennedy with his foghorn voice above the noise of the crowd...and my father in law used to swear that he once saw the football disappear into an open carriage door.... ...i lost my virginity in the sixties...so yep they were good years....no drugs though....

[ace]

I was there at that 1971 grand final.
Has there ever been a game in which more head high tackles resulted in players wobbling to their feet afterwards.
Cowboy Neale ran through Peter Hudson early.
Shoulder to the head contact like Giansiracusa to Koschitzke.
David Parkin alone must have coat hangered Stuart Trott on at least 5 occasions as Trott ran past him.
With only one umpire and virtually anything goes other than a punch to the head directly in front of the umpire, it was not so much a matter of the best team winning as the team with the most of concussed players still on the ground, losing.

That was violent era of football.
Darrell Baldock could never finish a game against Carlton.
Either John Nichols or Serge Silvagni would knock him unconcious.
Of particular disgust to me remains the conduct of our own Alan Davis repeatedly slinging opponents to the ground behind play and thus unobserved by the field umpire.
The goal umpires would have seen it happen repeatedly but could do nothing as it was not a reportable offence.
More eyes especially behind the play has improved the game.

[ace]

I like how Skase and Bondy were victims.

They were victims and criminals.
BK (Before Keating) you could beg and grovel and not get a home loan from an Australian bank, I remember.
When Keating's hatred for the top end of town invited the foreign banks to come to Australia, the Australian banks merged and then for the first time borrowed as much as the could from overseas.
The Australian banks shovelled money out to anyone who would take it.
Skase and Bond both lived in the now, with egos greater even than Paul Keating's.
They borrowed incredible amounts.

Then Keating introduced the recession we had to have (to fix up the economic disaster his banking exploit had caused).
The credit squeeze of all credit squeezes.
Interest went ridiculously high.
Instead of declaring bankruptcy Skase and Bond reverted to fraud and crime to save their empires.
The other criminal in this story threw as much vitriol as he could at them both.
This worked, the ABC and Fairfax never once questioned him how the situation arose.
But then one never expects honesty from either of these when it does not support their side of politics.

[Dave McNamara]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

It's worse than that. Note score board late in the 3rd.

From memory, hawthorn kicked a goal close to 3/4 time to bring that margin down to 20 points.

In the conditions in which that game was played, should have been enough.

Also from memory, just before that goal to give the Dawks some hope before the final break, we had gotten well on top, were 27 points up... and then missed a sitter.

That was arguably a 'sliding door' moment of that game. Should have gone in at 3/4 time 33 points up.

[ace]

Ace, linking our poor history to the myth that the ALP are poor economic managers is a real stretch.

In the 1970s there was an oil crisis and we had stagflation. The recession in the early 90s impacted most of the world.

When it comes to the global economy, Australia is a cork in an ocean. Apart from policy mistakes which are made on both sides, politicians can't really do that much.

I lived the 1970s.
High Inflation and high interest rates resulted directly from government behaviour.
In the 2000s the Labor governments of Rudd and Gillard had some excuses.
In the 1970s Whitlam's only excuse was - we have been out of government for 23 years waiting to implement our dreams and we may never have another chance in our lifetimes.
They totally ignored the global and domestic economic circumstances at the time and proceeded to go spending bezerk.
The oil crisis affected the rest of the world especially the USA - it was targetted at them for their support of Israel - but had little effect on Australia.

Anyone who thinks the Rudd and Gillard governments were our worst economic managers never lived the Whitlam years.
Sadly the St Kilda football club lived those years too.

[Dave McNamara]

Ace, linking our poor history to the myth that the ALP are poor economic managers is a real stretch.

In the 1970s there was an oil crisis and we had stagflation. The recession in the early 90s impacted most of the world.

When it comes to the global economy, Australia is a cork in an ocean. Apart from policy mistakes which are made on both sides, politicians can't really do that much.

I lived the 1970s.
High Inflation and high interest rates resulted directly from government behaviour.
In the 2000s the Labor governments of Rudd and Gillard had some excuses.
In the 1970s Whitlam's only excuse was - we have been out of government for 23 years waiting to implement our dreams and we may never have another chance in our lifetimes.
They totally ignored the global and domestic economic circumstances at the time and proceeded to go spending bezerk.
The oil crisis affected the rest of the world especially the USA - it was targetted at them for their support of Israel - but had little effect on Australia.

Anyone who thinks the Rudd and Gillard governments were our worst economic managers never lived the Whitlam years.
Sadly the St Kilda football club lived those years too.

Hi Ace, I've posted this several times before, and it looks like it's timely for another airing.

Your blaming of the government of the day is a popular furphy. History shows that whichever party is in power federally is pretty much irrelevant to the state of our national economy... we are beholden to global economic events.

(The price of petrol going up did affect us. Was arguably the catalyst to the -maybe eventual anyway?- undoing of the Aussie car industry for starters. But regardless of that, its effect on the global economy meant that our economy took a hit.)

n the early 1970s, governments had net financial assets – that is, net debt was negative. The McMahon Liberal Government lost in December 1972 and handed over to the Whitlam Labor Government negative net debt of 1.6% of GDP.

Despite the massive growth in real government spending during the Whitlam years, the level of negative net debt (ie; surplus) was little changed when Whitlam was sacked in November 1975.

...when the Fraser Government took control of the Treasury benches, net government debt was negative.

The Fraser Government was in power for 7 years. By 1983-84, the level of net government debt had risen to 7.5% of GDP and would reach 9.3% of GDP in 1984-85 as Treasurer Howard covered up the Budget problems during the 1983 election campaign.

After that, the Hawke / Keating Government slashed government spending in the latter part of the 1980s and in 1989-90, the government spending to GDP ratio fell to 22.9% – a level that has never been matched since. As a result of the fiscal prudence, net government debt fell to a trivial 4.0% of GDP in 1989-90.

http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/1996- ... -australia

Back to the sliding doors. Who knows, maybe we should have locked-in our loan/s at a lower rate? Was that even possible back then(?)

[Dave McNamara]

The sliding doors moment was when the VFL changed the zoning in the mid 70s and we got thoroughly shafted. Hawthorn was the major beneficiary, with that change in zoning largely responsible for it's successes from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.

Yep, beat me to it. From that point on they got everyone from Don Scott to Dermott Brereton from our zone. Became a powerhouse of the 70s and 80s and we've been struggling since

Good point guys.

Without detracting from the importance of our debt and the then rising interest rates, the zoning was also a huge killer. All those great players who went to Hawthorn... many of them would previously have gone to us.

Now, can someone please help me out here? I remember hearing that we had one L Matthews teed up to come to our club, but with the introduction of zoning we had to let him go...? Can anyone confirm/deny that one?

(The Dreamons also did terribly from their zone, from memory.)

[Trev from the Bush]

Three quarter time in the 1971 grand final and we lead by 20 points. One flag each and we are odds on to win our second. Game just about over in a low scoring game. Last quarter Asher Keddie's uncle kicks 3 and they win their second flag. 33 years later they win their 12 flag and we are stuck on one flag. I don't usually hate anyone but I do hate the footy gods. What happens if we win our second? Does Jeans go to the Hawks. Do we recruit better players. I don't even think the Hawks had a proper home ground then. Its sad, its devastating, its killing me.

I may be wrong but I think Hawthorn's home ground at that time was still the Sardine Can sometimes known as Glenferie Oval.
But St Kilda had made a wise move in the 1960s to move to Moorabbin where they were welcomed by the Moorabbin City Council.

St Kilda took on a lot of debt to fund that move and the construction at Moorabin.
That was fine. Australia was well governed, the economy was stable and growing and interest rates low and stable.
Wise that was so long as we didn't have a squandering Labor government.
Sadly in 1972 the Australian people showed that it takes more than intelligence to elect good governments, intelligent people also need to use their intelligence wisely.
In a fit of gross stupidity the Australian people elected a bunch of economic lunatics to govern the country.
The first of 3 times they have made this mistake in the last 50 years.
The economic lunatics set about squandering money as if it was confetti.
The national debt launched into space and interest rates followed.
The subsequent Coalition government elected at the end of 1975 took way too long to bring the inflation rate and interest rates back under control.

St Kilda FC had borrowed in low interest rates and, like the Christopher Skase and Alan Bond later were burned by the Keating interest rate spike, so St Kilda was burned by the stupidity of the Whitlam Labor government.
St Kilda did not revert to fraud and crime to save the empire like Skase and Bond but came very close.

Instead they offered creditors a pittance for every dollar owed.
Lindsay Fox made it clear to coaches, players and businesses alike that they could choose between a pittance or nothing.
A lot of players and Alan Jeans lost a bundle owed.
St Kilda fell into a major decline during the 1980s as a consequence.
Hawthorn without the financial disaster of St Kilda enjoyed repeated premiership successes in the 1980s.

Later there were moves by the AFL to force Hawthorn into partnerships with other clubs but former Hawthorn great Don Scott rallied Hawthorn supporters to put the club back on the right financial track.
Hawthorn remained independent and has prospered.
St Kilda has never really recovered from the disaster of the Moorabbin move and the election of the economic lunatics of Whitlam Labor.

Too true. Selling players (e.g., Val Perovic) does not win premierships for StKilda, nor does it necessarily pay-off loans for grandstands/

[stinger]

I like how Skase and Bondy were victims.

They were victims and criminals.
BK (Before Keating) you could beg and grovel and not get a home loan from an Australian bank, I remember.
When Keating's hatred for the top end of town invited the foreign banks to come to Australia, the Australian banks merged and then for the first time borrowed as much as the could from overseas.
The Australian banks shovelled money out to anyone who would take it.
Skase and Bond both lived in the now, with egos greater even than Paul Keating's.
They borrowed incredible amounts.

Then Keating introduced the recession we had to have (to fix up the economic disaster his banking exploit had caused).
The credit squeeze of all credit squeezes.
Interest went ridiculously high.
Instead of declaring bankruptcy Skase and Bond reverted to fraud and crime to save their empires.
The other criminal in this story threw as much vitriol as he could at them both.
This worked, the ABC and Fairfax never once questioned him how the situation arose.
But then one never expects honesty from either of these when it does not support their side of politics.

i love reading posts from someone who knows what they are talking about and tells it like it really is/was....

[Con Gorozidis]

The media have started talking about a Hawthorn 'dynasty'. Thankfully this is usually the prelude to a fall down the ladder The last talk of a 'dynasty' was in 2010 after a young Pies side demolished us in GF2.

[plugger66]

The media have started talking about a Hawthorn 'dynasty'. Thankfully this is usually the prelude to a fall down the ladder The last talk of a 'dynasty' was in 2010 after a young Pies side demolished us in GF2.

3 flags in 8 years is a dynasty whatever happens after this year.

[saintspremiers]

The media have started talking about a Hawthorn 'dynasty'. Thankfully this is usually the prelude to a fall down the ladder The last talk of a 'dynasty' was in 2010 after a young Pies side demolished us in GF2.

3 flags in 8 years is a dynasty whatever happens after this year.

Agree.

And Clarko should be knighted.

Thanks to ace, loris and lollyboy for the history lesson!

[SaintPav]

The media have started talking about a Hawthorn 'dynasty'. Thankfully this is usually the prelude to a fall down the ladder The last talk of a 'dynasty' was in 2010 after a young Pies side demolished us in GF2.

3 flags in 8 years is a dynasty whatever happens after this year.

True and Hawks have us truly covered 12 fold but Con makes a good point. As soon they begin talking about future dynasties, hubris can set in.

Carlton had a similar record were it won 8 flags in 28 years but haven't done much since 1995.

[Saints43]

We make relatively next to nothing from the pokies... and I'm proud of that!

Why don't we get rid of them then? That would be something to actually be proud of.

[The Redeemer]

Oh stop being dramatic

[Con Gorozidis]

The media have started talking about a Hawthorn 'dynasty'. Thankfully this is usually the prelude to a fall down the ladder The last talk of a 'dynasty' was in 2010 after a young Pies side demolished us in GF2.

3 flags in 8 years is a dynasty whatever happens after this year.

Youve got to lighten up. Do you need take everying literally and attempt to score a 'point'? I was clearly having a laugh.

I think when a father/son combo (Langford) can lay claim to 5 flags between them or whatever it is then you can truly call it a dynasty.

[stinger]

The media have started talking about a Hawthorn 'dynasty'. Thankfully this is usually the prelude to a fall down the ladder The last talk of a 'dynasty' was in 2010 after a young Pies side demolished us in GF2.

3 flags in 8 years is a dynasty whatever happens after this year.

Agree.

And Clarko should be knighted.

Thanks to ace, loris and lollyboy for the history lesson!

[loris]

The media have started talking about a Hawthorn 'dynasty'. Thankfully this is usually the prelude to a fall down the ladder The last talk of a 'dynasty' was in 2010 after a young Pies side demolished us in GF2.

3 flags in 8 years is a dynasty whatever happens after this year.

Agree.

And Clarko should be knighted.

Thanks to ace, loris and lollyboy for the history lesson!

Thanks lollyboy for the mars bar........ I'm eternally grateful

[Dave McNamara]

We make relatively next to nothing from the pokies... and I'm proud of that!

Why don't we get rid of them then? That would be something to actually be proud of.

Good point '43!

Well they certainly won't be coming to the Junction.

Last figures I saw we made $2.1 million from them. All up, the move to the Junction would be worth way way more than that... and even way way more yet again with home games.
(Cue response from our beloved SS Devil's Advocate. )

Pokies. Like you, I don't like them. So what to do(?)

Option1: Keep them at Moorabbin, but introduce an ultra strict system so that no one puts more money than they can afford into one of our machines. If that halves the take, then so be it. We still make money for the club, but ethically, as in, we only take money from recreational players, not from addicts.

Option2: Totally get rid of the things.

Thoughts?

[plugger66]

We make relatively next to nothing from the pokies... and I'm proud of that!

Why don't we get rid of them then? That would be something to actually be proud of.

Good point '43!

Well they certainly won't be coming to the Junction.

Last figures I saw we made $2.1 million from them. All up, the move to the Junction would be worth way way more than that... and even way way more yet again with home games.
(Cue response from our beloved SS Devil's Advocate. )

Pokies. Like you, I don't like them. So what to do(?)

Option1: Keep them at Moorabbin, but introduce an ultra strict system so that no one puts more money than they can afford into one of our machines. If that halves the take, then so be it. We still make money for the club, but ethically, as in, we only take money from recreational players, not from addicts.

Option2: Totally get rid of the things.

Thoughts?

Keep them because they will just go elsewhere in the same area. I would actually try and get more. I hate pokies but if we don't have them then the Sandbelt, ot the McKinnon or the Boundary just get them. I don't feel any better for people losing money to a pub owed by individuals.

[Dave McNamara]

We make relatively next to nothing from the pokies... and I'm proud of that!

Why don't we get rid of them then? That would be something to actually be proud of.

Good point '43!

Well they certainly won't be coming to the Junction.

Last figures I saw we made $2.1 million from them. All up, the move to the Junction would be worth way way more than that... and even way way more yet again with home games.
(Cue response from our beloved SS Devil's Advocate. )

Pokies. Like you, I don't like them. So what to do(?)

Option1: Keep them at Moorabbin, but introduce an ultra strict system so that no one puts more money than they can afford into one of our machines. If that halves the take, then so be it. We still make money for the club, but ethically, as in, we only take money from recreational players, not from addicts.

Option2: Totally get rid of the things.

Thoughts?

Keep them because they will just go elsewhere in the same area. I would actually try and get more. I hate pokies but if we don't have them then the Sandbelt, ot the McKinnon or the Boundary just get them. I don't feel any better for people losing money to a pub owed by individuals.

Pragmatism there Pluggs.

I like pragmatism. So option 1 it is then.



(We still need the emotive stuff in footy too, though. Coz footy is founded on emotion. )

[bergholt]

The zone thing is a furphy isn't it? These guys were pretty good players and they weren't from the zone:

Dunstall: from Queensland
Platten: from SA
Dipierdomenico: from Hawthorn/Kew
Wallace: from Camberwell
Don Scott: from Box Hill
Langford: from the city
Eade: from Tasmania
Robertson: from Tasmania
Pritchard: from Tasmania
Hudson: from Tasmania
Greene: from St Kilda
Ken Judge: from WA
Buckenara: from WA
Ben Allan: from WA
Schwab: from Burwood
Arthur: from Bendigo
Tony Hall: from SA

I suppose these guys were?

Matthews: from Frankston
Knights: from Longwarry
Moore: from Frankston
Tuck: from Berwick
Brereton: from Frankston
Mew: from Rosebud
Ayres: from Warragul

Obviously some very good players from the zone but the majority of their premiership sides were from elsewhere. They recruited well across the country. Not sure we can say the same during that period.