Rucking issues

[plugger66]

If Hickey doesn't get back who do we go with? Yep I know there is 2 practice matches to go but after one game I really see this area as a problem. Holmes can tap the ball but seems lost around the ground which is fair enough. He has come along way quickly though. Longer also taps it ok, not as good as holmes, but cant make any space around the ground to have any impact on the game. He certainly cant mark the ball. I think it is pretty obvious we are now going to only play one ruckman in a game so the question is if Hickey doesn't come up who is it. Cant believe Im saying this but Holmes maybe ahead at the moment.

What do others think. 2 ruckmen? one ruckmen? Which one?

[bergsone]

IMO,it looking like one ruckman plus Bruce.Longer to me just doesn't get enough done,Holmes may make it but is still a way off,Pierce also

If Hickey doesn't come up,I would opt for Holmes,but not with a lot of confidence

Real chance in remaining nab games for someone to put their hand up and take that spot

Don't think any one them are good enough to have 2 in the one side

[Bluthy]

You're obsessed with the ruckmen issue Plugger - you keep picking at it like a sore. It will work itself over time. We have lots of options and need to see who develops and who doesn't. It looks like they will go with one ruck - Hickey if fit otherwise Longer I would guess - and then either Bruce or Lee to do some relief, probably BRuce based on yesterday . All they need to do is give a bit of contest - half the time a second man goes up anyway.

I'm still a defender of Longer. I think his best is yet to come like so many great ruckmen who bloom late when they finally get mastery over their huge limbs. But Hickey showed some real talent and domination when he was up and about last year but injuries seem a worry. Is he injured now or just not playing as a precaution? Not convinced at all about Holmes - its hard when they come to the game so late but he definitely showed a good leap and a couple of beautiful taps down players throats. And then there is Pierce who people say is developing great. So maybe this year we can experiment. Maybe try two ruckmen. Put Holmes in for a couple of games. Give Pierce a game. Create a real sense of completion for those ruck spots

[WinnersOnly]

Pierce will make the forward 2nd ruck option in time, he will surprise many if given a run this year!

[WinnersOnly]

Pierce will make the forward 2nd ruck option in time, he will surprise many if given a run this year!

[falka]

God I hope Longer proves me wrong, I know he is young, but besides aggression at the ruck contests, I have seen nothing else from him.
Hickey even at Gold Coast showed glimpses, like game against Collingwood at the G where he had 7 contested marks, and his first half v GWS last year with 3 goals pushing forward from the ruck, he is the obvious one
Pierce not ready yet, needs a full VFL season with the odd senior appearance.
Loving Holmes work at hit outs, but like longer, what else does he have. Probably can mark better but that aint saying much.

We are going to be down the bottom end of the table, so we can try some things e.g. 2 rucks in a few games, but longer term ???
Bruce, I like his attitude and athleticism so happy with him being trialled in the role.

[st.byron]

I reckon patience is the go. Longer is not 22 yet. Pierce is 21. Hickey is just 24. Their best footy you'd think is ahead for all three.
Longer was captain of Vic Metro and a top ten draft pick. He's played 25 games. Patience.

[plugger66]

You're obsessed with the ruckmen issue Plugger - you keep picking at it like a sore. It will work itself over time. We have lots of options and need to see who develops and who doesn't. It looks like they will go with one ruck - Hickey if fit otherwise Longer I would guess - and then either Bruce or Lee to do some relief, probably BRuce based on yesterday . All they need to do is give a bit of contest - half the time a second man goes up anyway.

I'm still a defender of Longer. I think his best is yet to come like so many great ruckmen who bloom late when they finally get mastery over their huge limbs. But Hickey showed some real talent and domination when he was up and about last year but injuries seem a worry. Is he injured now or just not playing as a precaution? Not convinced at all about Holmes - its hard when they come to the game so late but he definitely showed a good leap and a couple of beautiful taps down players throats. And then there is Pierce who people say is developing great. So maybe this year we can experiment. Maybe try two ruckmen. Put Holmes in for a couple of games. Give Pierce a game. Create a real sense of completion for those ruck spots

Yes I am obsessed with the ruck issues. Hawthorn realised their weakness and went out and got one for probably to much but they know the importance. We went out and paid a lot for 2 of them so yes I am obsessed because im not sure we have solved anything but it has cost us a lot. I know ruckman take years to develop but most know how to mark it at a young age. Longer doesn't work hard enough to get into positions to mark it. And I don't reckon you play 2 ruckmen because one isn't good enough. That just means 2 aren't good enough and no one we have is capable of playing forward for either 40% each of a game or 80% on their own.

[spert]

I still think Hickey will improve and develop into a quality ruck. Longer needs to really get in the play a whole lot more, and impose himself better in contested situations, while Pierce still needs a bit more upper body strength yet and is a season off, and Holmes is neither here nor there.

[PJ]

In terms of development

1/ Hickey

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Hickey tracking well in terms of his progression from surgery?

I'm pretty sure I've read he is where they expect him to be.

Will come into consideration soon. No 1 by quite some distance

2/ Longer

The most highly rated of our picks but still needs time. Thought his use of his body around the stoppages yesterday was good. Can't impact the marking contest at present so that's where he loses ground.

3/ Holmes

Progressing well and is the personality profile to improve if given game time. Should have taken 2 relatively easy marks yesterday one in the forward line and one in the defensive goal square but didm't seem to have the confidence/awareness or understanding of instruction to take his chances just yet

4/ Pearce

Still very young but may get a shot during the season to get his first AFL game. Haven't seen any sandy games so his level is unclear - looked quite good in the intra-club

5/ Bruce

Great back up, really athletic 2nd ruck option that can move well around the ground.

In summary

So you start with Hickey/Bruce if available then you go to a combination of Longer/Bruce or Holmes/Bruce depending on who has the strongest form. Pearce next cab off the rank. I don't see any down side on experimentation here - or in other words we aren't going to be looking for a top 8 birth

Longer was given most of last year to demonstrate what he's got so I'd be looking at giving Holmes a reasonable run at it.

[Darth Vader]

Everything the club says about wanting to be more competitive and win more games makes sense from a membership/sponsorship perspective, and is what they have to say, but a lot of what they've been doing doesn't reflect this. The rucking situation seems to be one of those situations - ie trade out our best ruckman for some picks, get younger replacements and hope they come on, but it really doesn't matter if they're not up to it now as we're not going to be any good for years anyway. Time will tell if it's the right approach.

[samuraisaint]

Hickey - first ruckman - and can rest up forward and be dangerous.
Bruce - to give Hickey a chop out - can be a swingman in forward line or down back.
Longer gifted a lot of games last year due to injuries so can earn his spot this year I reckon. No more gifting games.
If Hickey not right round one - give the Lanky Yank his chance - his efforts yesterday were more promising than Longer's.

[Bardon Saint]

Rucking non-issue for mine. If we were going for a flag this year, or top 4 or top 8, then I might be slightly concerned. We have 4 developing ruckman. They all have potential and anywhere from 2 - 6 years before they're at an age considered to be at their peak. Like others have said, it will work itself out.

[plugger66]

Rucking non-issue for mine. If we were going for a flag this year, or top 4 or top 8, then I might be slightly concerned. We have 4 developing ruckman. They all have potential and anywhere from 2 - 6 years before they're at an age considered to be at their peak. Like others have said, it will work itself out.

So if that is case no position is an issue because it will just sort itself out. Im not sure things just get sorted out over time.

[samuraisaint]

well, last season is proof that they don't. we didn't worry about recruiting for 5 years under Lyon - and then made some dubious recruiting decisions coutesy of WA inc Watters - and look where we are now. lowest percentage for 60 years, that's where. and I suspect that unless Essendon get wiped out for the year coutesy of player suspensions, we will win less games than last year again.

[PJ]

How is the club justing letting the rucking problem just sort itself out?

You don't recruit 20 to 23 year old ruckmen and just expect that the problem is solved.

After the intraclub match people were saying Bruce doesn't work in the forward line and as 2nd ruck option now this week he's a lot better and could possibly work.

As for the criticism of trading McEvoy - would you rather we didn't have Luke Dunstan in our line up? If your going to link ruck stocks with trading in regards to the level of development with macca then you have to accept less development in the midfield. You can't keep McEvoy and get top 20 draft picks. We don't have enough good young mids so I think the recruiting strategy is sound.

[plugger66]

How is the club justing letting the rucking problem just sort itself out?

You don't recruit 20 to 23 year old ruckmen and just expect that the problem is solved.

After the intraclub match people were saying Bruce doesn't work in the forward line and as 2nd ruck option now this week he's a lot better and could possibly work.

As for the criticism of trading McEvoy - would you rather we didn't have Luke Dunstan in our line up? If your going to link ruck stocks with trading in regards to the level of development with macca then you have to accept less development in the midfield. You can't keep McEvoy and get top 20 draft picks. We don't have enough good young mids so I think the recruiting strategy is sound.

You would have to ask Barton saint as he said it. And I should have said work itself out not sort itself out. Same difference I suppose. And I have no idea who your last paragraph is being addressed to so I will leave that alone.

[MC Gusto]

I still maintain hope that longer will come good but I must say it is wavering..

[noob]

Surprised Longer was drafted so high, He can't really take a grab, and that's a worry for his size.

[Devilhead]

No issues in the Ruck Department - these guys are young, are developing and are currently gaining a wealth of experience - am happy with the current rucking situation given the overall age dynamic of the team

[bergholt]

Marking isn't actually that important for a ruckman. Gardy was pretty good for us while averaging 3 or 4 marks a game. (Though obviously that one mark against Geelong was pretty good.)

That said, he still had reasonable presence around the ground. Longer has zero presence at this point. Give him another couple of years and maybe it'll improve - but given the competition he may not have that much time.

I reckon we'll see two ruckmen in probably half the games this year, especially if Hickey misses a few with injury or if one of the key forwards is injured. Pierce and Holmes probably five games or so each. At the end of the year we'll know a little more about all of them.

[Con Gorozidis]

Fair to say that Hickey is our number one ruckman by an absolute mile at this point.

At this stage If i was coach I would probably go for a Hickey, Bruce combo.

Longer, Holmes and Pierce all fairly even at this stage. All have promise and Pierce is the youngest.

But overall I think we have a very healthy young Ruck division. One of the best in the AFL.
But we need 14+ games out of Hickey per year to realise this potential.

[Bluthy]

Rucking non-issue for mine. If we were going for a flag this year, or top 4 or top 8, then I might be slightly concerned. We have 4 developing ruckman. They all have potential and anywhere from 2 - 6 years before they're at an age considered to be at their peak. Like others have said, it will work itself out.

So if that is case no position is an issue because it will just sort itself out. Im not sure things just get sorted out over time.

I think there is a plan. My gut instinct is, from tidbits from Richo and what a few people on here with a bit of inside knowledge, is that the St Kilda brains trust have a future goal of Hickey as main ruck with Pierce as the forward-ruck. Someone on here said Pierce was a forward in junior footy. That seems like a damn good combo with Hickey showing good tap work and able to take grabs when resting forward and if Pierce can develop into that Hale type who kicks goals but can also ruck well so there is no let up in quality ruck work in a grand final. But that is just one hypothetical on paper. Who knows how the reality will play out. Hickey has been injury prone. Will Longer be happy playing in the magoos if Hickey stays fit and they only want one ruck or will he seek a trade like he did out of Brisbane? Would we be happy to trade Longer if we get a decent pick and if Holmes keeps on developing well? Could White do some rucking to help cement a spot in the firsts? If Pierce proves a good forward would we still need to draft another power forward if a Cameron type is available with a no. 1 pick we have? Pierce is yet to play an AFL game so there are still plenty of questions he needs to answer. Plenty of water to go under the bridge.

[Bluthy]

double my waffle!

[kosifantutti]

In terms of trades I reckon we made the right decisions regarding McEvoy and Longer, but I have been disappointed with Longer's development. I think Longer is a great tap ruckman and he's hard at it when the ball hits the ground but he should be giving a marking option around the ground and he's just not doing that. It's like he doesn't know how to get his body in the right spot and then he doesn't know how to position his hands. It seems to be flat hands every time and hoping the ball sticks.

If all are fit, I would go with Hickey and Bruce/Lee giving him a chop out.

With Hickey out I would still go with Longer but keeping a very close eye on the progress of Pierce/Holmes.

Long term I reckon Pierce has the most potential to play that forward/ruck role.

Edit. I'm still unconvinced that trading Stanley was the right move.