Lower your expectations of what Freeman achieves this year

[Sobraz]

If he gets through 1 or 2 full NAB challenge games, I'm certain he'll line up round 1.

I cant see him playing all 3 NAB games, even if fully fit, I'm sure they'd be managing his workload closely, but if he gets through a few early hit outs, he will debut in Adelaide. It's almost irrespective of form in the NAB matches, unless he is appalling.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Reported that Freeman is training away from the main group on a modified programme as he recovers from the hammy setback.

Sounds like nowhere near fit to play let alone seniors.

[tony74]

Nathan and Jake have both not fully trained with the main group.

[ripplug66]

Reported that Freeman is training away from the main group on a modified programme as he recovers from the hammy setback.

Sounds like nowhere near fit to play let alone seniors.

Correct if they played in the next 4 weeks but they don't. BM if he does train with main group and can play in practice matches and does ok why shouldn't he be available like every other player in round one?

Also BM the reason I used Lonie in the other post is Bluthy said he should be treated like a first year player. He didn't put a rider on it.

[ripplug66]

Bluthy is spot on. Freeman is a long term prospect.
Would love to see him string together 10+ games in a row, getting better each game and maybe slip into the seniors later in the season.
To say he is in our best 22 is ludicrous. The kid hasn't even played at VFL level for two years and some want him straight into the seniors. Crazy stuff

Again no one is saying he is in our best 22 yet. No one knows but he has as much right as anyone else if his form and training is good enough to play round one. He shouldn't be held back because he hasn't played for 2 years. He has 2 years training under his belt and if he gets through pre season he has another 4 months. If his form is good enough then he has a right to play. Bluthy said he should be treated as a first year player and whilst I totally disagree then that's fine. Didn't Lonie play the first game plat year as a first year player?

And Dragit why cant he get confidence and form in all the practice matches we have. Afterall that's how Lonie was picked in the first game last year and I'm sure that's also how some players aren't picked because their form isn't good enough. As Ive said many times all this is based on pretty much a full pre season and good form. He has no credits with us yet so he needs to show he can play but if he can he deserves as much chance to play ones as the other 39 or is he only player not able to play ones in round one? How silly would that be. That isn't counting our other recruit who is suspended.

Plugger, you are clearly changing from your earlier viewpoint of "We didn't recruit a third year player on about 300K a year to play most of the season in the seconds". That clearly indicates that you think the club recruited him as a highly-paid gun and hence will go into the firsts straight away, plain as day. If you are changing your opinion, now talking about needing to prove his ability, that is fine, but don't whinge about being misinterpreted. If that isn't what you meant then maybe you need to take a bit more time to formulate your thoughts rather than replying at the speed of light.

You do realise Freeman isn't even at full training yet and we are now in January? And he's just come off a hammy tweek and so will most probably still be on a modified program for weeks more. The cautious, sensible approach says you play him through the reserves, and even then only when he is ready. They did the same thing with Acres last year. What Freeman is being paid is irrelevant. Thats a negotiated amount to get him to the club. After that it only has relevance for the payroll and salary cap guys. I see Acres and Ross as above him in the pecking order as we need to get senior games into them, as long as they show the neccesary form of course .

Even the Minch showed some really good form at the end of last year and if he replicates in preseason games deserves a shot in the big show. We need to keep trying out guys like Minch, Curren, Saunders to see if they can make the delisting at the end of the year. There is no need to panic with Freeman. His time will come. But he needs to play footy and VFL is the safest option.

I just think some people are building themselves up for disappointment if Freeman doesn't play much firsts this year because of the hype around him, but that unrealistic expectations to me, bit like the backlash with Paddy's year. Maybe I'm Mr Conservative on this. I guess we'll see.

As I said you can take all day to reply and the reply can still not make sense and this is a prefect example. I haven't changed my view point at all. What I said was fact. He is a third year player and he is a good money for a third year player so if he is fit he plays not because he is on good money but because the club have paid him good money because they think he is good enough for that money. Of course he has to do something in the practice games but I thought a man of your knowledge would take that as a given. Maybe I gave you to much credit.

Now about his training program. Again its a given that he needs looking after so you and Bigmart are stating the obvious but your first post wasn't about training, it was about where he will play most of the year and I think if he is able to train properly and do well enough then he is a firsts player. Nothing to do with not looking to the future as BM smugly stated. If he is still struggling with training he wont even play in the seconds so that point is moot. I was talking about him if he was fully training. And if he doesn't play in the ones much this year and is fully fit I will be very disappointed. If he isn't fully fit this season I will be even more disappointed. I have no idea if he is good enough but I do know if he is fully fit and doing well enough he will be given plenty of chances in the ones as every player is.

Also no idea what you are talking about with the backlash about Paddy. A few comments isn't a backlash. Much more positive comments than negative.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Reported that Freeman is training away from the main group on a modified programme as he recovers from the hammy setback.

Sounds like nowhere near fit to play let alone seniors.

Correct if they played in the next 4 weeks but they don't. BM if he does train with main group and can play in practice matches and does ok why shouldn't he be available like every other player in round one?

Also BM the reason I used Lonie in the other post is Bluthy said he should be treated like a first year player. He didn't put a rider on it.

All reasonable.

And dont get me wrong. If he is fit and going would love him to get into the seniors.

However realistically, after his injuries and lack of competitive football for 2 years, if feel it is unlikely he will be a seniors player early in the season.

I reckon the club will take a long term view

[Zed]

Well I might as well have a ping at this so we can look back and have a laugh at some of these predictions.

I'm going to guess he won't play NAB 1, plays half of NAB 2, doesn't play NAB 3 , but does play in a VFL practice game just before round 1.

Will start the season in the VFL - playing a full game - and assuming his body holds up will play the next couple of games in the VFL as well. If his form is good enough, will make his AFL debut round 4, but will be in and out of the team during the year to rest his body - and work on his game in the VFL . Will finish the season having played 10 AFL games.

[gringo]

Reported that Freeman is training away from the main group on a modified programme as he recovers from the hammy setback.

Sounds like nowhere near fit to play let alone seniors.

Correct if they played in the next 4 weeks but they don't. BM if he does train with main group and can play in practice matches and does ok why shouldn't he be available like every other player in round one?

Also BM the reason I used Lonie in the other post is Bluthy said he should be treated like a first year player. He didn't put a rider on it.

All reasonable.

And dont get me wrong. If he is fit and going would love him to get into the seniors.

However realistically, after his injuries and lack of competitive football for 2 years, if feel it is unlikely he will be a seniors player early in the season.

I reckon the club will take a long term view

Agree, they will have him in cotton wool. The risk of him breaking down again means there will be very little chance of rushing him along for show now. He will be eased into it unless he's the next obvious superstar in his first match simulation appearances and they have to keep him in.

[BigMart]

Long winded back peddle....

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[Con Gorozidis]

Agree with Bluthy. Long term prospect. His pay reflects the fact we needed to pay overs to get him to move clubs. Currently on zero afl games. . He needs time and match practice like everyone else. Cant be expected to just waltz into AFL footy. Not many do that. String a few games together and will get senior games because he is the kind of player we need. But no rush or need to play round one.

[ripplug66]

Agree with Bluthy. Long term prospect. His pay reflects the fact we needed to pay overs to get him to move clubs. Currently on zero afl games. . He needs time and match practice like everyone else. Cant be expected to just waltz into AFL footy. Not many do that. String a few games together and will get senior games because he is the kind of player we need. But no rush or need to play round one.

Of course he wont be rushed to play round one. If he misses chunks of training he is no hope for round one but and its a but if he play in the practice matches and plays ok he should be treated like any other player at round one and be available for selection. If you agree with Bluthy you obviously thin he will play most of the year in the seconds. I say he wont if and again its an if he is fit and good enough he will play most of the year in the ones. All this changes if he gets injuries which I would think is obvious.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Long winded back peddle....

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That should be you signature

[Bluthy]

Agree with Bluthy. Long term prospect. His pay reflects the fact we needed to pay overs to get him to move clubs. Currently on zero afl games. . He needs time and match practice like everyone else. Cant be expected to just waltz into AFL footy. Not many do that. String a few games together and will get senior games because he is the kind of player we need. But no rush or need to play round one.

Of course he wont be rushed to play round one. If he misses chunks of training he is no hope for round one but and its a but if he play in the practice matches and plays ok he should be treated like any other player at round one and be available for selection. If you agree with Bluthy you obviously thin he will play most of the year in the seconds. I say he wont if and again its an if he is fit and good enough he will play most of the year in the ones. All this changes if he gets injuries which I would think is obvious.

See you are now starting to pepper your statements about Freeman like "and good enough", "shows enough in practice games" etc . That's a healthy change. Previously you said he was brought in on big money and would play firsts straight away, no proviso. There was vibe from many here that just because hes a top ten draft pick and is rumoured to have that elusive speed we feel desperate for, then he will go straight in to the firsts. People in this thread are still saying he will go straight into the firsts, and he hasn't even played a single game of footy for us. Where is this logic coming from? What if he shows bugger all in any praccy games, does he go into the firsts early? No way Richo will just gift him a game like that. We have good depth now. Regardless of his body, the kid has to earn his spot with damn good performances. To be making statements about him going into the firsts early without seeing how he goes in games is basing your opinion on wishful thinking, not evidence.

Freemans body is kind of a seperate, but intertwined issue. Overall what makes sense to me for both these issues is to play him for a big chunk of the season in the VFL. We have to make this kid work - he may end up costing us as much as pick 19 or 20 which is a damn high pick. The rumour is he's a bit of a FIGJAM, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But what it means is he is going to be as frustrated as hell as not being able to strut his stuff on the field. Players love swapping war stories from games and he isn't going to feel like he is part of the club until he plays footy. For his sanity, he needs to lay some stuff down on the field this year and the VFL is the safest place for that. They can keep building up all those little leg muscles they are working on to support his hammies, he can keep working on his new running style which will take time to become automatic. And he can try to build up the form that would impress the selectors. Neither his draft pick, his pay check nor throwing around that he is a "third year player" will get him a game in the seniors when he has zero games under his belt.

ps. Thank you for not pulling out the "I think the physio's know better than you" inanity that is your normal "win the argument" go to. I got the feeling you were keeping that one up your sleeve so I thought I'd defuse it now

[SaintPav]

Stick him in the guts first round; see what he's made of.

[Bluthy]

Stick him in the guts first round; see what he's made of.

So just throw out that pesky "earn your spot" policy? And lets not worry about those troublesome hammies. I'm sure medicine will advance to him being able to get a hamstring transplant in a couple of years.

[ripplug66]

Agree with Bluthy. Long term prospect. His pay reflects the fact we needed to pay overs to get him to move clubs. Currently on zero afl games. . He needs time and match practice like everyone else. Cant be expected to just waltz into AFL footy. Not many do that. String a few games together and will get senior games because he is the kind of player we need. But no rush or need to play round one.

Of course he wont be rushed to play round one. If he misses chunks of training he is no hope for round one but and its a but if he play in the practice matches and plays ok he should be treated like any other player at round one and be available for selection. If you agree with Bluthy you obviously thin he will play most of the year in the seconds. I say he wont if and again its an if he is fit and good enough he will play most of the year in the ones. All this changes if he gets injuries which I would think is obvious.

See you are now starting to pepper your statements about Freeman like "and good enough", "shows enough in practice games" etc . That's a healthy change. Previously you said he was brought in on big money and would play firsts straight away, no proviso. There was vibe from many here that just because hes a top ten draft pick and is rumoured to have that elusive speed we feel desperate for, then he will go straight in to the firsts. People in this thread are still saying he will go straight into the firsts, and he hasn't even played a single game of footy for us. Where is this logic coming from? What if he shows bugger all in any praccy games, does he go into the firsts early? No way Richo will just gift him a game like that. We have good depth now. Regardless of his body, the kid has to earn his spot with damn good performances. To be making statements about him going into the firsts early without seeing how he goes in games is basing your opinion on wishful thinking, not evidence.

Freemans body is kind of a seperate, but intertwined issue. Overall what makes sense to me for both these issues is to play him for a big chunk of the season in the VFL. We have to make this kid work - he may end up costing us as much as pick 19 or 20 which is a damn high pick. The rumour is he's a bit of a FIGJAM, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But what it means is he is going to be as frustrated as hell as not being able to strut his stuff on the field. Players love swapping war stories from games and he isn't going to feel like he is part of the club until he plays footy. For his sanity, he needs to lay some stuff down on the field this year and the VFL is the safest place for that. They can keep building up all those little leg muscles they are working on to support his hammies, he can keep working on his new running style which will take time to become automatic. And he can try to build up the form that would impress the selectors. Neither his draft pick, his pay check nor throwing around that he is a "third year player" will get him a game in the seniors when he has zero games under his belt.

ps. Thank you for not pulling out the "I think the physio's know better than you" inanity that is your normal "win the argument" go to. I got the feeling you were keeping that one up your sleeve so I thought I'd defuse it now

As I said other day it was a given that he is good enough and also as I said maybe I gave you to much credit to think that way. By the way you never talked about him being good enough. You just said he will probably play most of his games in the VFL this year. Imagine if he was BOG in the first 3 weeks in the VFL and he stayed in the VFL. There would be a riot on here. Also as I have explained the point of saying he was on big money is to point out the club think he is a senior player, it wasn't to say he must play in the ones because he is on big money. I have told you that at least 3 times but you keep repeating the same untruths. Just proves my point that you can take all day to reply but still not make sense.

And now you are mentioning his form. It seems you have changed from your first post where form was basically not mentioned. Now rumour says he is a bit of a figjam. You really love the big statements to prove your theories. Carlisle and Goddard come to mind. And I might pull out those comments about physio's when they are relevant like Goddard and Carlisle where you guessed and they know. I wont mention that you like to win an argument with the same untruths, well yes I will.

[Darth Vader]

Saw the figjam comments so asked my 2 eldest kids who went to school with him if true. Response was "Hell yeah." Not necessarily a bad thing.

[BigMart]

I'd bite and reply .... But you'd run to the mods again...

Nothing like a personal comment is there charlatan?...

[ripplug66]

I'd bite and reply .... But you'd run to the mods again...

Nothing like a personal comment is there charlatan?...

As opposed to what you said but don't quote so you don't get caught. Happy for you to say I'm wrong but it wont be true. And sorry Bunk for getting involved.

[Bluthy]

Saw the figjam comments so asked my 2 eldest kids who went to school with him if true. Response was "Hell yeah." Not necessarily a bad thing.

And if anyone would know figjam its Darth Vaders kids. Makes sense really. For a kid who had only been on an AFL list for 2 years, struggled with a chronic injury from the get go, hadn't played even one serious game to showcase his stuff, - to request a trade from the biggest and best resourced footy club in Victoria and negotiate a near million dollar, multi-year deal showed some seriously big bollocks. I don't think he's going to lack for confidence if he can get out there on game day. And I agree that's not a bad thing. I've always thought we need a bit more cockiness at out club. Yes it can be a double edged sword as Steve Johnson and Akermanis showed there is a danger it can go toxic. But its amazing how those players in the biggest games, when even the best feel the heat and tighten up, seem impenetrable to any sense of doubt and get it done.

[Jacks Back]

I prefer Plum Jam.

[Vazelos]

Richo's take on Freeman:

Despite the ongoing issue, St Kilda Coach Alan Richardson remains optimistic about Freeman’s prospects, confident the strong willed, athletically gifted 20-year-old can emerge from years drenched with disappointed, and build on the impressive start he has chiselled out of adversity at Linen House Centre.

“When someone doesn’t play for two years – or play senior footy for two years – and you bring them to your footy club, you make sure they have all the attributes that when they are fit and healthy they’re going to be a really good player for you, otherwise you wouldn’t do the deal,” Richardson told saints.com.au on Thursday.

“But you also go into it realistically, knowing that this is going to take a while and this is where ‘Free’s’ is at.

“He’s an incredible worker; he’s a great kid; he’s a very positive person; he’s already won the respect of his teammates with the way he’s gone about his training and the way that he’s coped with his minor setback.

“Having said all that, he’s not far away really, in terms of joining in. In probably a couple of weeks, you’ll turn up and watch training and not notice that he’s been out of it.

"He’s a pretty impressive athlete so it won’t take long for him to get up to speed with the rest of the group."

[Gershwin]

My expectations are pretty low. Can only hope that he can put in an uninterrupted pre-season from now on and then string together some solid games in VFL. Only then we might have a better idea of what we have.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I'd bite and reply .... But you'd run to the mods again...

Nothing like a personal comment is there charlatan?...

As opposed to what you said but don't quote so you don't get caught. Happy for you to say I'm wrong but it wont be true. And sorry Bunk for getting involved.

No worries, seems like BigMart has finally learnt that he is not above forum rules and is now having a bit of a sook about it.

Sometimes smaller arrogant minds take some time to learn a lesson, but eventually do.

And you are correct ripplug66 with your comment, the dripping hypocricy of it all.

Anyway enough of the irrelevant nobody.

There was a shot of Freeman at training yesterday and the scar on his right hammy looks very big and ugly.

Good news is that his legs look in fine condition, here hoping he is over his major hammy concerns and powers onwards.

<warning for baiting and belittling comments - please avoid commenting on other posters or expect warnings>

[Bunk_Moreland]

Saw the figjam comments so asked my 2 eldest kids who went to school with him if true. Response was "Hell yeah." Not necessarily a bad thing.

And if anyone would know figjam its Darth Vaders kids. Makes sense really. For a kid who had only been on an AFL list for 2 years, struggled with a chronic injury from the get go, hadn't played even one serious game to showcase his stuff, - to request a trade from the biggest and best resourced footy club in Victoria and negotiate a near million dollar, multi-year deal showed some seriously big bollocks. I don't think he's going to lack for confidence if he can get out there on game day. And I agree that's not a bad thing. I've always thought we need a bit more cockiness at out club. Yes it can be a double edged sword as Steve Johnson and Akermanis showed there is a danger it can go toxic. But its amazing how those players in the biggest games, when even the best feel the heat and tighten up, seem impenetrable to any sense of doubt and get it done.

Have to agree with all of that. One thing with your analysis of his front re the million dollar contract. The flip side of that is the kid must have serious upside potential for the club to invest so heavily in him.

Look at it this way. If a worst case scenario comes about (apart from re-injury of course) and the club nurses him until 2017, that is 300k not utilised by the club for a senior player.

That is some big confidence that he is going to be a major player for us.

And anyway 2016 will be much like 2015 for the playing group. Next season (2017) is when we should really look to finals and when he and our other young potentials should be able to make a real mark.