Reality Bites

[fugazi]

Rooey a true champ was surrounded by fading stars (Monty, Fisher, Dempster), and some good ordinary toilers.

Roo had 22 disposal and kicked 2.......Monty 31 touches at %80 efficiency..........Jack steven 29 touches at %70...........then nothing much

Where are these "young guns" we're supposed to have?

We are an average to poor side and while we surprised people last year, I think we will disappoint this year and come 3rd last, just ahead of Carlton and Essendon.

I think most on here knew that any talk of pushing up the ladder this year, a la Port Adelaide or Doggies, was always bogus.

We could have been belted by 120points tonight, if the Doggies had finished half decently.

Never doubt our endeavour but there is a massive quality gap btw Saints and the top 12 teams.

Yes Carlisle and Goddard will help, but we are 3 gun midfielders short of a decent team.

[felix]

Bull s*** the club said we will wi a premiership by 2020 !

[Con Gorozidis]

Not reading much in to the stats tonight. Lots of Joeys little one twos in the backline didnt come to much but at least he runs all night and tries to create the play. That makes him better than 90% of our side.

[Con Gorozidis]

Bull s*** the club said we will wi a premiership by 2020 !

The club deserves an 'A' for PR, marketing, website and media.

But the 'spin' is nothing like the reality.

[The Fireman]

this thread is so far behind the times...reality bit last year...we now have to hope we recruit better for 2017 .
this thread is crap.

[asiu]

agreed.
... i cant see what everyone is freakn out about.
Patience & high draft picks is also this years purpose.
Fitter faster 'n future.
... the doggies did to us what we'll be doin to others.

Hold ya nerve.

'n stop complaining like ol moles.

[Con Gorozidis]

this thread is so far behind the times...reality bit last year...we now have to hope we recruit better for 2017 .
this thread is crap.

Reality bit for me back in 2011.

But the club is spinning up a PR storm telling us all our kids are champs and a 2020 flag is a mere formality.
The thread is legit.

[fugazi]

this thread is so far behind the times...reality bit last year...we now have to hope we recruit better for 2017 .
this thread is crap.

Disagree last year we flattered to deceive. Couldn't believe the over the top estimations from media about our prospects this year and beyond.
How many Rising Star nominations have we had in recent time with our fleet of upcoming stars?
Hate to be the doomsayer but I reckon we have a team of try hards....what would we look like without Roo and Monty giving some respectability...?
Last year will look like the good old days compared to this year.
I'll go tobed cos I'm starting to sound like that troll citywest. Not my intention. Just gutted at how far away we are.

[Griggsy]

Geez does everyone who thinks the sky is falling have to make their own thread about it.we did as well as freo against a team that could be top 4, and this is while playing one of the worst games in terms of skill level I've seen in a while.

[longtimesaint]

We had a shocker but I think the Bulldogs will take some stopping this year.
Next week will tell a tale when they play Hawthorn.
I think we will have better days this year when we play teams around our ability/experience.

[Bluthy]

I was feeling pretty chilled since quarter time - it was obvious we were up against a better team in nearly every department. Dogs were scary good at times - probably the fastest team in the comp and could well end up in top four. Even though we were out of weight division I thought we returned fire pretty well in the first half and kept the dogs honest. The third quarter was disappointing - the endless pressure that dogs put on just seemed to crack us and players lost their nerve getting the fumbles and s***-kicks badly.

But we tried to take the game on - we just aren't skillful or fit enough to execute the quick hands and kicking required under that sort of high level suffocating pressure. No Saints players had any time to balance themselves tonight - they had to keep making split second actions and couldn't pull it off. Eh. They'll learn a hella lot from playing under that sort of relentless pressure. This is where we are at - developing, learning, blooding youngsters, trying to be brave and keep playing aggressively in the face of a potential onslaught.

A 10 goal loss is disappointing but its against a possible top 4 team on their home deck when we had guys like Gresham, Sinclair and McCartin who were really AFL-rusty. It just seemed like one of those nights tonight - nothing came off.

[chook23]

Ourskills and decision making tonight was as bad as I have seen.

That includes the sides of the early to mid eighties.


A really really disappointing performance.

[BigMart]

Both teams have a few vets, actually we have a few more

Our youngsters vs theirs tonight
Bontempelli and Billings
Wallis and Dunstan
Libba and Ross
McRae and Steven
Hunter and Newnes
Boyd and McCartin
Johannison and Savage
Stringer and Bruce
McLean and Sinclair
Daniel and Lonie
Suckling and Roberton
Picken and Armo
Dalhuis and Weller
Whoever and Gresham

Can't say we have a win on any of those comparisons

[Wayne42]

Both teams have a few vets, actually we have a few more

Our youngsters vs theirs tonight
Bontempelli and Billings
Wallis and Dunstan
Libba and Ross
McRae and Steven
Hunter and Newnes
Boyd and McCartin
Johannison and Savage
Stringer and Bruce
McLean and Sinclair
Daniel and Lonie
Suckling and Roberton
Picken and Armo
Dalhuis and Weller
Whoever and Gresham

Can't say we have a win on any of those comparisons

What number did Whoever wear on his jumper ?

[To the top]

The only question I have from tonight is "did any of our players actually touch the footy?"

It did not seem so - except for the occasions when we politely handed the ball back to them so they could kick yet another goal from our abysmal ball handling skills - how many 2 goal turnarounds were there exactly?

It the papers of players starting with Geary, Weller, Savage, Webster and a few others to boot are not marked "NOT VFL QUALITY" then we are just not serious about improvement.

We have to move on those List cloggers and put games into the higher Draft picks we have accumulated over the last 2 seasons - altho on tonight's performance Gresham is nowhere near it and never will be because, at his height you need blistering pace and consummate ball handling skills of which he has neither.

There was absolutely no pressure placed on the half a dozen they parked behind the ball waiting for us to kick it down their throats.

A shocker and as poor a game of football I have ever seen any team "produce".

[Griggsy]

Both teams have a few vets, actually we have a few more

Our youngsters vs theirs tonight
Bontempelli and Billings
Wallis and Dunstan
Libba and Ross
McRae and Steven
Hunter and Newnes
Boyd and McCartin
Johannison and Savage
Stringer and Bruce
McLean and Sinclair
Daniel and Lonie
Suckling and Roberton
Picken and Armo
Dalhuis and Weller
Whoever and Gresham

Can't say we have a win on any of those comparisons

What number did Whoever wear on his jumper ?

Typo, it was whomever

[The Recruit]

Reality is
5 wins this year top 4 draft pick
3 wins 2017 top 3 draft pick + free agent
6-9 wins 2018 top 10 pick + free agent
12-16 wins 2019 finals
16-19wins 2020 finals

To get to where we want to we need three more elite young players and one elite midfielder free agent and another very good free agent between now and 2020.

Still a lot to do list wise, with the need to include four to five more elite midfielders. Not good players, they need to be elite.
So when we are challenging like they are it will be more like

Bontempelli and Billings
Wallis and pick 3-4 2016
Libba and pick 1-3 2017
McRae and Free agent
Hunter and Newnes
Boyd and McCartin
Johannison and Savage
Stringer and Steven
McLean and Sinclair
Daniel and Lonie
Suckling and Roberton
Picken and Armo
Dalhuis and Weller
Whoever and Gresham
Crameri And Bruce
???! And Carlisle

Then add a free agent like a Dylan Shiel or Luke Parker to the list.
The dogs won't get much better than they are now but we need to.....again very unfair comparisons when they are three years ahead of us

Compare our list more to a Collingwood or Melbourne.

[HardSaint]

I was feeling pretty chilled since quarter time - it was obvious we were up against a better team in nearly every department. Dogs were scary good at times - probably the fastest team in the comp and could well end up in top four. Even though we were out of weight division I thought we returned fire pretty well in the first half and kept the dogs honest. The third quarter was disappointing - the endless pressure that dogs put on just seemed to crack us and players lost their nerve getting the fumbles and s***-kicks badly.

But we tried to take the game on - we just aren't skillful or fit enough to execute the quick hands and kicking required under that sort of high level suffocating pressure. No Saints players had any time to balance themselves tonight - they had to keep making split second actions and couldn't pull it off. Eh. They'll learn a hella lot from playing under that sort of relentless pressure. This is where we are at - developing, learning, blooding youngsters, trying to be brave and keep playing aggressively in the face of a potential onslaught.

A 10 goal loss is disappointing but its against a possible top 4 team on their home deck when we had guys like Gresham, Sinclair and McCartin who were really AFL-rusty. It just seemed like one of those nights tonight - nothing came off.

Thanks Bluth - felt and feel the same way - even more for your apt summary

Hate it when this thing happens, when you have to pull the bloke up next to you (and his attractive 40 something daughter) cut up and cussing at the boys, completely unsympathetic when they did well (but then, dumbly f***ed it up and executed a breathtaking turnover...)
spitting chips, bleeding saints and expectations , talking about accountability and "money they're on"
Have heart, they're young, who knows yet - we're working our arses off in the backline, showing dash here and there - did you expect at a 2004 runaway?

came away not depressed and for what its worth, we lost by under 10 goals
Early days yet

[White Winmar]

Reality is
5 wins this year top 4 draft pick
3 wins 2017 top 3 draft pick + free agent
6-9 wins 2018 top 10 pick + free agent
12-16 wins 2019 finals
16-19wins 2020 finals

To get to where we want to we need three more elite young players and one elite midfielder free agent and another very good free agent between now and 2020.

Still a lot to do list wise, with the need to include four to five more elite midfielders. Not good players, they need to be elite.
So when we are challenging like they are it will be more like

Bontempelli and Billings
Wallis and pick 3-4 2016
Libba and pick 1-3 2017
McRae and Free agent
Hunter and Newnes
Boyd and McCartin
Johannison and Savage
Stringer and Steven
McLean and Sinclair
Daniel and Lonie
Suckling and Roberton
Picken and Armo
Dalhuis and Weller
Whoever and Gresham
Crameri And Bruce
???! And Carlisle

Then add a free agent like a Dylan Shiel or Luke Parker to the list.
The dogs won't get much better than they are now but we need to.....again very unfair comparisons when they are three years ahead of us

Compare our list more to a Collingwood or Melbourne.

"Gresham and whomever." Yours sincerely, the Grammar Nazi!

[bigcarl]

The Bulldogs are a very good side and will give it a shake this year. I thought they might give us a touch up and was proved correct. We have a long way to go.

I agree with the OP that we are three quality mids short of a good side. We are also old. slow and short in defence.

It will be a long season punctuated by a few surprise wins.

[carn_sainter]

I watched from level 3 and find it hard to pick out a lot of individual players from up there, especially around contests.

But we were smashed structurally. Around contests the dogs set up much much better than we did and when they took the ball away it was meaningful. When we would win the ball from a contest, we had no meaningful ball movement.

To a point that was very worrying. Effort and disposal skill are one thing but, those aside, we couldn't move the ball. Did we get three effective, clean kicks in a row all night?

Both teams pushed numbers up the ground but the dogs would leave an option forward so that on a fast break they could kick the ball to advantage. Often we pushed all of our numbers up the ground and left nothing to kick to.

To me this was the biggest problem. We mucked around with small, useless handballs to team mates under pressure all night because we didn't have anything to kick the ball to. Far too often we were all just standing around.

For me the three biggest thing to work on from this game are:
- set up around contests. Use the numbers there much better...i think we all dive in a bit too much.
- have forward targets leading up and presenting to the ball. Way too stagnant last night...i'm going to single out McCartin as in most need to improve this
- yes, disposal. It was pretty awful. The stuff under pressure I can live with but the un-pressured handballs and kicks that miss targets just kill me. Even kick ins were just awful. From a kick in we were stagnant and had nothing to kick to...

Lots of work to do.

I liked Bruce, Roo, Newnes, Armitage and Steven....though all of those guys did about as much bad as good to be honest.

[Kick-it-lace-out]

I have been sitting tight for the last couple of years acknowledging that we are going through a rebuild. I have come to grips with the fact that this will take time. Last year provided glimpses of the potential and I was encouraged by the effort and pressure displayed during games. It resulted in only six wins, but I was quietly optimistic at seasons end.
Last night however was unacceptable. Don't get me wrong, we were never going to win, the Bulldogs are a very polished outfit. But for the first time in about two years I went home completely disillusioned with where we are as a club. I prey that our decision to trade pick 5 for Carlisle works out. We could have had Parish. We still have large gaping holes in our list (no outside run), which will take years to fill. I am going to try to be a little more patient, but after 48 years of supporting the saints, I'm not sure how much patience is left in me. I prey.

[8856brother]

I have been sitting tight for the last couple of years acknowledging that we are going through a rebuild. I have come to grips with the fact that this will take time. Last year provided glimpses of the potential and I was encouraged by the effort and pressure displayed during games. It resulted in only six wins, but I was quietly optimistic at seasons end.
Last night however was unacceptable. Don't get me wrong, we were never going to win, the Bulldogs are a very polished outfit. But for the first time in about two years I went home completely disillusioned with where we are as a club. I prey that our decision to trade pick 5 for Carlisle works out. We could have had Parish. We still have large gaping holes in our list (no outside run), which will take years to fill. I am going to try to be a little more patient, but after 48 years of supporting the saints, I'm not sure how much patience is left in me. I prey.

We couldn't have had Parish. How many times does it need to be said on this forum.

[stkfc1]

I watched from level 3 and find it hard to pick out a lot of individual players from up there, especially around contests.

But we were smashed structurally. Around contests the dogs set up much much better than we did and when they took the ball away it was meaningful. When we would win the ball from a contest, we had no meaningful ball movement.

To a point that was very worrying. Effort and disposal skill are one thing but, those aside, we couldn't move the ball. Did we get three effective, clean kicks in a row all night?

Both teams pushed numbers up the ground but the dogs would leave an option forward so that on a fast break they could kick the ball to advantage. Often we pushed all of our numbers up the ground and left nothing to kick to.

To me this was the biggest problem. We mucked around with small, useless handballs to team mates under pressure all night because we didn't have anything to kick the ball to. Far too often we were all just standing around.

For me the three biggest thing to work on from this game are:
- set up around contests. Use the numbers there much better...i think we all dive in a bit too much.
- have forward targets leading up and presenting to the ball. Way too stagnant last night...i'm going to single out McCartin as in most need to improve this
- yes, disposal. It was pretty awful. The stuff under pressure I can live with but the un-pressured handballs and kicks that miss targets just kill me. Even kick ins were just awful. From a kick in we were stagnant and had nothing to kick to...

Lots of work to do.

I liked Bruce, Roo, Newnes, Armitage and Steven....though all of those guys did about as much bad as good to be honest.

Spot on summary. The lack of movement upfield was mind-boggling. We gave ourselves no options except to handball to someone under more pressure and the lack of structure around stoppages and general play was amateurish. I left the game with more questions with answers. I don't think Webster and Savage are the answer in defence. Neither can keep their feet and their tackles dont stick. Webster got in one beauty though. Maybe they'd be better with a Carlise next to them but they both look out of their depth. Our backline is too old, too short and too slow. Again though the lack of skills is just again mind-boggling. How can professional athletes ,who do this full time, not hit a target 20 meters away under no pressure. Hopefully it was just a bad night as last week was much better .Doggies weren't that great either. They were just better structered and hit a few more targets.

[bigred]

Great pressure from the Dogs also. We did not get many clear touches throughout the entire game.

Our skills are terrible.

Terrible.