Just a thought on Acres going into the ruck

[loris]

I’ve read with interest on this site the criticisms of Richo using Acres as a relief in the ruck ( usually late in the second half of matches) a few weeks back.

Interesting discussion I heard today at sports luncheon from some ‘knowledgeable’ ex AFl coaches & players, who I think possibly might be a little more knowledgeable than some of the negative nellies & Richo haters on this site. The discussion was on the use of players as relief ruckman in short bursts.

The Bulldogs, last season & this season have used Bompetelli, Freo have used Fyfe, and some Port Power player (didn’t get his name). The discussion was on using big bodied mids in short bursts, usually in the second half of a game. They discussed how it’s all about contested possessions. They also mentioned how a player liked Sam Gilbert was experimented with a degree of success last season by the Saints and now Saints are mixing it up with ‘young Acres’.

Maybe Richo isn’t such a dunderhead, possibly just doing what’s common trend in game play these days......... just a thought!

[skeptic]

I doubt you’ll find many ppl suggesting it has worked so far

[loris]

I doubt you’ll find many ppl suggesting it has worked so far

I’m not saying it’s worked “skeptic”, as I’ve only seen one match so far this season (against Melbourne and Acres wasn’t playing) as I’ve been overseas for the past 6 weeks, so I can’t say if it’s been successful at any stage in a match.

I’ve been reading all this hubris on S/S about Acres being used in the ruck. What an idiot (that’s being generous to what some posters call AR) to come up with sacrificing Acres by putting him in the ruck. It’s not as though the6 have given constructive criticism about the use of Acres in the ruck........it’s just been as far as I’ve read a lot of emotive language.

Now I don’t know if it’s worked at all (as I’ve haven’t seen any matches) or whether there were instances when the use of Acres in the ruck reached the desired impact the team needed at certain occasions. Posters didn’t analyse at all, just vented their spleen. If posters don’t criticise constructively, sorry but I dismiss it very quickly.

All I’m saying is that it I heard well credentialed AFL greats talk about this trend of using big bodied mids as pinch hitting in the ruck. Acres was one name mentioned. I didn’t hear any of the panel saying that using Acres was a poor decision that hadn’t worked. All I’m saying is that our coaches possibly are more in tune with the trends in the game these days than the nay sayers who can’t or won’t accept that the Coaching staff are attempting ways of tinkering with our set ups.

Oh, it was stated that Gilbert was used effectively in this manner last season by the Saints. ( Though I wouldn’t call him a big-bodied mid). Surprisingly, last season some posters even thought using Gilbert in the ruck was a master stroke....... even one poster ( read today he’s left the forum) who had been Gilbo’s greatest critic grudgingly agreed Gilbert’s role change had been a good move for a few weeks.

Just a thought.............. sorry I had one ...... I thought it was interesting what 2 former premiership coaches, an AFL captain and a Coleman medalist were discussing about Saint players being used in this manner. Best our coaches not be attempting such things, they will only stuff it up. Let’s all drink from the half empty glass!

[SydneySainter]

I’ve read with interest on this site the criticisms of Richo using Acres as a relief in the ruck ( usually late in the second half of matches) a few weeks back.

Interesting discussion I heard today at sports luncheon from some ‘knowledgeable’ ex AFl coaches & players, who I think possibly might be a little more knowledgeable than some of the negative nellies & Richo haters on this site. The discussion was on the use of players as relief ruckman in short bursts.

The Bulldogs, last season & this season have used Bompetelli, Freo have used Fyfe, and some Port Power player (didn’t get his name). The discussion was on using big bodied mids in short bursts, usually in the second half of a game. They discussed how it’s all about contested possessions. They also mentioned how a player liked Sam Gilbert was experimented with a degree of success last season by the Saints and now Saints are mixing it up with ‘young Acres’.

Maybe Richo isn’t such a dunderhead, possibly just doing what’s common trend in game play these days......... just a thought!

I strangely don’t hate it either. Certainly not as much as others on this forum do. Acres is tall and has a biggish frame. Makes sense why they would try it.

But, does concern me that when comparing it to the Bont or Fyfe, these are players who are well ahead of Acres in development. I would hate for Acres to be hampered with OP by seasons end, so I hope that they’re not doing while his body may still be a bit premature.

[St. Paul]

Ruining a potentially great young player. Typical Richo madness and desperation.

[skeptic]

Just a thought.............. sorry I had one ...... I thought it was interesting what 2 former premiership coaches, an AFL captain and a Coleman medalist were discussing about Saint players being used in this manner. Best our coaches not be attempting such things, they will only stuff it up. Let’s all drink from the half empty glass!

Look I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cause offence. You ended the op with maybe AR isn’t such a dunderhead but yeah I think it’s a shocking move...
Acres can’t actually ruck and he doesn’t yet have the mongrel of a guy like Gilbert to throw his weight around, and even though he’s a bigger bodied mid for his age, putting him into the ruck actually took him out of the centre ball winning contest which is where many want to see him and AR refuses to play him.
Furthermore, he’s actually pbly the best of the mid forwards we have playing so far this season and we moved him out of there and now he missed a weak through soreness or something.

I quite literally see no benefit.

You’re wrong on a second point too... I was Gilbert’s biggest critic and happily conceded that he found a niche in the ruck for a while but the added factor here was that Gilbo didn’t have another position in the team... he was pushed out of defence, not good enough for a forward and didn’t have the skills or endurance of a mid...
He killed it around the ground against the bigger bodied rucks because he could exploit mobility and his stop start endurance was good. The problem is that the strategy doesn’t work against better rucks because they hurt you in the centre and demand that you man them up.

Again factors that apply to Acres too. IMO a better strategy is to pump more games into Marshall as a forward that can play second ruck.
The competition for spots in the top 22 is Paddy Vs Bruce at CHF with Marshall at FF. That way we can have both 2 rucks, to big forwards and the rest are flashy or tough forwards

[bigcarl]

putting him into the ruck actually took him out of the centre ball winning contest which is where many want to see him and AR refuses to play him.

Yeah, I don’t get that at all.

He’s got to take the plunge on this. What’s he got to lose?

[stonecold]

Nice to see you back posting Loris, glass half full is a better mentality than glass half empty!!!!!

Need more of your type on this forum, welcome back!!!!!

[saynta]

Yep, welcome back Loris.

[mad saint guy]

Richo is following a trend that worked for Richmond but not for us. Their tall forwards and rucks other than Nank and Riewoldt are absolute spuds but they have two elite mids in Martin and Cotchin who can win the footy from a dominant opposition ruck while Grigg can work as a handy extra runner for them. We don't have any midfielders who are anywhere near as good as Martin or Cotchin and we are severely hampering our best young midfielder by trying to play him in the ruck in between stints up forward and on the wing. We have one of the worst midfields in the competition and absolutely cannot afford to be slaughtered in the ruck for 5 minutes every quarter if we have any ambitions of being competitive.

[bigred]

I don't like it.

Not with a young player of that "potential" calibre.

I just think it is exposing them to an unnecessary contact injury.

[St Lenny]

I don't have a problem with Richo trying different things. In fact I want him to. But Acres in the ruck is questionable. He just doesn't have the body for it. Surely there are others better suited. And for god sake stop playing Membrey around the ground like Roo, its not working. Get him back on the forward line. Well I guess he will be with Paddy out.

[parkeysainter]

Acres was managed last week for groin soreness. It had nothing to do with him playing in the ruck on occasion this year. I don't mond Acres going in there on the odd occassion like Gilbert can and has in the past.

Anyway, Marshall just simply needs to play as a 2nd ruck now behind Hickey or Longer so there is really no need for an Acres to relieve the main ruck unless forced to. At least Marshall can play a key forward role also, keep him in there in 2018 and develop him.

[WellardSaint]

I don't like it.

Not with a young player of that "potential" calibre.

I just think it is exposing them to an unnecessary contact injury.

+1

Don't want to see Acres getting a knee in the side or leg from a 100kg+ ruckman,
he's too valuable to be wasted like this.
Let Gilbo ruck; he has less chance to turn the ball over, if he's competing in the ruck

[Toy Saint]

I'm just not a fan of playing a classy mid in the ruck.....I can understand Fyffe and Gilbert, but not Acres. We need his class and we don't want him to get hurt against those big thugs. Imagine Billings against Sandilands, or Robert Harvey up against Monkhurst, or even Ian Stewart against John Nicholls......or Black Caviar pulling the milk cart.....just don't like it.

[stkfc1]

FFS just stick him in the guts for a game. We have 3 players (Ross, Steele and Dunstan) who are basically the same type of player and Steven. We need another point of difference in the middle and Acres is so obviously it! Why is it so hard for the coaches to see this!? Also put Billings in a Montagna type role playing from HBF and you'll see a different player. Take the pressure off him and he'll be back to his best. Simples.

[bigcarl]

FFS just stick him in the guts for a game. We have 3 players (Ross, Steele and Dunstan) who are basically the same type of player and Steven. We need another point of difference in the middle and Acres is so obviously it! Why is it so hard for the coaches to see this!? Also put Billings in a Montagna type role playing from HBF and you'll see a different player. Take the pressure off him and he'll be back to his best. Simples.

Couldn't Agree More.

We actually have four of the same type if you include Armitage.

[Jacks Back]

FFS just stick him in the guts for a game. We have 3 players (Ross, Steele and Dunstan) who are basically the same type of player and Steven. We need another point of difference in the middle and Acres is so obviously it! Why is it so hard for the coaches to see this!? Also put Billings in a Montagna type role playing from HBF and you'll see a different player. Take the pressure off him and he'll be back to his best. Simples.

+100 about 8cres playing in the guts.