where this team currently sits
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Wed 12 Sep 2007 5:30pm
- Has thanked: 171 times
- Been thanked: 519 times
where this team currently sits
I am sure there will be plenty of McCartin bashing, coach/ game plan criticism, umpire moaning and general angst following this performance.
The reality is the list is not yet good enough. Whether that improves with time , recruiting or both will wait to be seen.
Roo and Armitage out hurt us with experience , toughness and structure. Hickey hurts us as around the ground we are playing 17-18 with Longer most weeks. Armitage and Hickey won't be back for some time. Webster's form this year has looked better and better since he's been out too.
Some questions at 5-5 some points for thought.
Can these players improve enough to be in our best 22 in 12 months time - Sinclair, Lonie, Minchington, Savage, Weller
No longer bring in players who have not performed after being dropped. Minchington got dropped and came straight back without anything special and it showed.
We need to be patient with the development of McCartin, Gresham , Acres, Billings, Long, Rice,
Membery is a third tall option , We need the combination of Bruce/McCartin/ Roo ( 2 of forward) with Membery as 3rd option - think Roughhead, Gunston, Bruest
We need good ball users not butchers as the turnovers are killing the team.
The reality is the list is not yet good enough. Whether that improves with time , recruiting or both will wait to be seen.
Roo and Armitage out hurt us with experience , toughness and structure. Hickey hurts us as around the ground we are playing 17-18 with Longer most weeks. Armitage and Hickey won't be back for some time. Webster's form this year has looked better and better since he's been out too.
Some questions at 5-5 some points for thought.
Can these players improve enough to be in our best 22 in 12 months time - Sinclair, Lonie, Minchington, Savage, Weller
No longer bring in players who have not performed after being dropped. Minchington got dropped and came straight back without anything special and it showed.
We need to be patient with the development of McCartin, Gresham , Acres, Billings, Long, Rice,
Membery is a third tall option , We need the combination of Bruce/McCartin/ Roo ( 2 of forward) with Membery as 3rd option - think Roughhead, Gunston, Bruest
We need good ball users not butchers as the turnovers are killing the team.
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30092
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: where this team currently sits
We lack class.
We lack players that can make good football decisions
We lack players that can use the ball well
The above makes it hard to win.
Today we dominated early only to play the Dogs into form by us continually feeding them the ball.
We lack players that can make good football decisions
We lack players that can use the ball well
The above makes it hard to win.
Today we dominated early only to play the Dogs into form by us continually feeding them the ball.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4320
- Joined: Fri 17 Nov 2006 1:05am
- Has thanked: 55 times
- Been thanked: 244 times
- Sainter_Dad
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6321
- Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
- Has thanked: 262 times
- Been thanked: 1120 times
Re: where this team currently sits
I think this may be the source of our problems - I think Geary being given the captainship was probably the wrong move - he may be a great competitor, he may be a great lock down player - but surely his turnovers (becoming less) and his lack of flair is hurting him.mullet wrote:we lack leadership
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3266
- Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2007 4:05pm
- Been thanked: 390 times
Re: where this team currently sits
The Mike Brearley of the AFL.
Or the Bob Blewett of the SA Sheffield Shield side.
Or the Bob Blewett of the SA Sheffield Shield side.
- The Fireman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13273
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:54pm
- Has thanked: 655 times
- Been thanked: 1942 times
Re: where this team currently sits
good post older Saint...the way I see it aswell.
after last week I knew we would lose today, by how much was the question. We are simply not good enough yet.
after last week I knew we would lose today, by how much was the question. We are simply not good enough yet.
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30092
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: where this team currently sits
Unfortunately it was the "old' Geary today. He really butchered the ball by foot and hand which had him blend in with most of his team mates today.Sainter_Dad wrote:
I think this may be the source of our problems - I think Geary being given the captainship was probably the wrong move - he may be a great competitor, he may be a great lock down player - but surely his turnovers (becoming less) and.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1869
- Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2016 11:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 269 times
Re: where this team currently sits
I was at the game to today and it was just plain bad today. For the love of god can someone kick at the goal. Hand ball after handball in front of the sticks rather than a shot.
Geary was bad again today, I don't care that he is our captain, he isn't great. Carlisle is great at defending until he kicks and then it is a problem. Did Acres play today. I know he took the field but did he play. And our non existent forward. Paddy was woeful again. Leave him in the VFL for the next month until he can actually mark and kick goal regularly. Skunk wan't great wither to be fair. And Richo WTF us your Plan B? nothing changed for the whole game and once they got on a roll you let it happen. Just not happy
Basically it is time to get the rose coloured glassed off. We are not great. I would use our draft pick to get draftees, not as trade bait. If we get a Fyfe or Dusty they will stand out in our team but we will not have the complete team and by the time we are good we will have waste money on them. Get 2 top 10 players and build them up
Geary was bad again today, I don't care that he is our captain, he isn't great. Carlisle is great at defending until he kicks and then it is a problem. Did Acres play today. I know he took the field but did he play. And our non existent forward. Paddy was woeful again. Leave him in the VFL for the next month until he can actually mark and kick goal regularly. Skunk wan't great wither to be fair. And Richo WTF us your Plan B? nothing changed for the whole game and once they got on a roll you let it happen. Just not happy
Basically it is time to get the rose coloured glassed off. We are not great. I would use our draft pick to get draftees, not as trade bait. If we get a Fyfe or Dusty they will stand out in our team but we will not have the complete team and by the time we are good we will have waste money on them. Get 2 top 10 players and build them up
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: where this team currently sits
The plan is to be top 4 by 2018 and a flag by 2020.The Fireman wrote:good post older Saint...the way I see it aswell.
after last week I knew we would lose today, by how much was the question. We are simply not good enough yet.
Dunno about top 4 at the end of next season, but some shrewd FA/trading could
make a massive difference.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
- desertsaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10425
- Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 2:02pm
- Location: out there
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 713 times
Re: where this team currently sits
i thought it was finals by 2018. we're on track for that. If it's top four we're a fair way behind. As for a flag - wrong club.saintspremiers wrote:The plan is to be top 4 by 2018 and a flag by 2020.The Fireman wrote:good post older Saint...the way I see it aswell.
after last week I knew we would lose today, by how much was the question. We are simply not good enough yet.
Dunno about top 4 at the end of next season, but some shrewd FA/trading could
make a massive difference.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
- The Fireman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13273
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:54pm
- Has thanked: 655 times
- Been thanked: 1942 times
Re: where this team currently sits
recruiting may get us top 4 next yearsaintspremiers wrote:The plan is to be top 4 by 2018 and a flag by 2020.The Fireman wrote:good post older Saint...the way I see it aswell.
after last week I knew we would lose today, by how much was the question. We are simply not good enough yet.
Dunno about top 4 at the end of next season, but some shrewd FA/trading could
make a massive difference.
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30092
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: where this team currently sits
May not too.The Fireman wrote: recruiting may get us top 4 next year
Most people keep assuming that we will land a big name gun or two.
But if you were Kelly or Martin and watched the tapes of our last two games why would you want to join us?
Martin wil gain huge money whether he stay or goes to any club.
Kelly is more of a chance in one way GWS will not be able to match the $ that the Saints, North, Dons etc can put up. However Kellu could easily decide to sign on for 2 more yeas to have a good crack at the flag and then chase the cash. If GWS win the flag this year it may perhaps open the door more for Kelly to leave.
it is perhaps more like that we may be able to prise someone loose like a Whitfield or a Hopper.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: where this team currently sits
Unfortunately you can't have both of these things at the moment.older saint wrote: No longer bring in players who have not performed after being dropped.
We need the combination of Bruce…
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 878
- Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2016 8:05pm
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 94 times
Re: where this team currently sits
So our 21 year old full forward had 15 touches NINE marks and kicked 1.1 when our team was spanked by 40 points.
9 marks was the equal most for the game along with Joey, Robertson and DMac.
What do those three all have in common? Correct, they're all half back flankers who kick the ball backwards to eachother to get cheap marks.
Paddy on the other hand managed to take 9 marks as a forward... with some of the WORST delivery ever. Just bomb it long and hope for the best.
But because he dropped a few sitters people are still calling for his head?
Could you imagine the damage he would do if they just kicked it to his advantage AND didn't all come flying in over the top and brining their defenders with them when he had a one on one contest.
"Why wasn't Bruce picked?
Because Bruce's formline has been absolutely HORRIFIC!
7 touches, 2 marks and 1 goal against the Giants
7 touches, 3 marks and 2 cheap goals against the Blues
Then gets absolutely SMASHED in the VFL by LIAM BLOODY JONES. Jones took 15 marks and was BOG. Bruce kicked one bloody goal.
Josh Kennedy would struggle to kick a bag if he played for us.
9 marks was the equal most for the game along with Joey, Robertson and DMac.
What do those three all have in common? Correct, they're all half back flankers who kick the ball backwards to eachother to get cheap marks.
Paddy on the other hand managed to take 9 marks as a forward... with some of the WORST delivery ever. Just bomb it long and hope for the best.
But because he dropped a few sitters people are still calling for his head?
Could you imagine the damage he would do if they just kicked it to his advantage AND didn't all come flying in over the top and brining their defenders with them when he had a one on one contest.
"Why wasn't Bruce picked?
Because Bruce's formline has been absolutely HORRIFIC!
7 touches, 2 marks and 1 goal against the Giants
7 touches, 3 marks and 2 cheap goals against the Blues
Then gets absolutely SMASHED in the VFL by LIAM BLOODY JONES. Jones took 15 marks and was BOG. Bruce kicked one bloody goal.
Josh Kennedy would struggle to kick a bag if he played for us.
- The Fireman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13273
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:54pm
- Has thanked: 655 times
- Been thanked: 1942 times
Re: where this team currently sits
was basing that on the assumption that we improve with what we have into next season...if...IF we pick a star up then top 4 for us.saintsRrising wrote:May not too.The Fireman wrote: recruiting may get us top 4 next year
Most people keep assuming that we will land a big name gun or two.
But if you were Kelly or Martin and watched the tapes of our last two games why would you want to join us?
Martin wil gain huge money whether he stay or goes to any club.
Kelly is more of a chance in one way GWS will not be able to match the $ that the Saints, North, Dons etc can put up. However Kellu could easily decide to sign on for 2 more yeas to have a good crack at the flag and then chase the cash. If GWS win the flag this year it may perhaps open the door more for Kelly to leave.
it is perhaps more like that we may be able to prise someone loose like a Whitfield or a Hopper.
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2190
- Joined: Sun 28 Mar 2004 1:59pm
- Location: by the seaside..
- Has thanked: 36 times
- Been thanked: 187 times
Re: where this team currently sits
I agree totally with #1 & #3saintsRrising wrote: We lack class.
We lack players that can make good football decisions
We lack players that can use the ball well
We have a team of battlers
Don't blame the coach, he's not the one making costly turnovers
“If you want the rainbow you gotta put up with rain” Dolly Parton
- Saints43
- Club Player
- Posts: 1826
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:01pm
- Location: L2 A38
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 11 times
Re: where this team currently sits
We're paying well under the salary cap. That ensures we aren't good enough.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
Why is that so hard to understand?
Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
- WellardSaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8326
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2012 11:25am
- Location: Perth- the best weather in Oz, but the worst rednecks.
- Has thanked: 1889 times
- Been thanked: 878 times
Re: where this team currently sits
Not sure the salary cap has much of an effect.Saints43 wrote:We're paying well under the salary cap. That ensures we aren't good enough.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Millenium Falcon using Hyperspace
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
- WellardSaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8326
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2012 11:25am
- Location: Perth- the best weather in Oz, but the worst rednecks.
- Has thanked: 1889 times
- Been thanked: 878 times
Re: where this team currently sits
and we await a message from our favourite man in the know...
let me guess:
"if you think you're all hurting, believe me, the guys are all hurting.
The coaches are positive we are on the right track. We will learn from this yadayadayada yadayadayadayada"
Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya
Hey, why don't we all go buy a bunch of candles and do the Mav Meditation
Lotus position, in a darkened room, no noise, except for the low guttural OMMMMMMMMM
come on, we can all do it...OMMMMMMMMMMMM
let me guess:
"if you think you're all hurting, believe me, the guys are all hurting.
The coaches are positive we are on the right track. We will learn from this yadayadayada yadayadayadayada"
Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya
Hey, why don't we all go buy a bunch of candles and do the Mav Meditation
Lotus position, in a darkened room, no noise, except for the low guttural OMMMMMMMMM
come on, we can all do it...OMMMMMMMMMMMM
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 724
- Joined: Thu 06 Dec 2007 3:14pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 115 times
Re: where this team currently sits
World according to me
1. Armo and Weller are being missed in the midfield. We need their grunt.
2. The backline plays better with Savage in it.
3. Hickey fit and in form is far better than Longer
4. The forward line is a mess.
The forwardline is completely unbalanced.
Paddy needs to grow into the number 1 forward. He is young underdeveloped and not ready for the number 1 spot. Key forwards of his type are struggling. Flat hands are kiĺling him, there is no point in keeping the ball in front of himself when (and i mean when) he drops the mark as he lacks the agility to pick it up of the deck. Therefore he should give himself the best opportunity to take the mark.
Josh Bruce has list form since they tried him in the ruck. Flat hands has stuffed his confidence. Should have played today with Roo out.
Membrey is genuinely the number 3 forward. Good B grade player. In a flying team he will go well. Average in an average team.
What we lack is crummers. Someone to sit at the front of the pack. Everyone we have tried has failed. They haven't had enough impact period.
We lack plan B because we don't have the cattle to change the forward structure. Paddy can only be full forward. Membrey and Bruce are limited out of the forward line.
Billings pinch hits well in the forward line.
Roo is not the answer. Roo days are numbered.
Saints game style of kick it long into forward 50 needs to change.
1. Armo and Weller are being missed in the midfield. We need their grunt.
2. The backline plays better with Savage in it.
3. Hickey fit and in form is far better than Longer
4. The forward line is a mess.
The forwardline is completely unbalanced.
Paddy needs to grow into the number 1 forward. He is young underdeveloped and not ready for the number 1 spot. Key forwards of his type are struggling. Flat hands are kiĺling him, there is no point in keeping the ball in front of himself when (and i mean when) he drops the mark as he lacks the agility to pick it up of the deck. Therefore he should give himself the best opportunity to take the mark.
Josh Bruce has list form since they tried him in the ruck. Flat hands has stuffed his confidence. Should have played today with Roo out.
Membrey is genuinely the number 3 forward. Good B grade player. In a flying team he will go well. Average in an average team.
What we lack is crummers. Someone to sit at the front of the pack. Everyone we have tried has failed. They haven't had enough impact period.
We lack plan B because we don't have the cattle to change the forward structure. Paddy can only be full forward. Membrey and Bruce are limited out of the forward line.
Billings pinch hits well in the forward line.
Roo is not the answer. Roo days are numbered.
Saints game style of kick it long into forward 50 needs to change.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Sat 13 Dec 2014 3:06pm
Re: where this team currently sits
Bruce will bounce back.The_President wrote:So our 21 year old full forward had 15 touches NINE marks and kicked 1.1 when our team was spanked by 40 points.
9 marks was the equal most for the game along with Joey, Robertson and DMac.
What do those three all have in common? Correct, they're all half back flankers who kick the ball backwards to eachother to get cheap marks.
Paddy on the other hand managed to take 9 marks as a forward... with some of the WORST delivery ever. Just bomb it long and hope for the best.
But because he dropped a few sitters people are still calling for his head?
Could you imagine the damage he would do if they just kicked it to his advantage AND didn't all come flying in over the top and brining their defenders with them when he had a one on one contest.
"Why wasn't Bruce picked?
Because Bruce's formline has been absolutely HORRIFIC!
7 touches, 2 marks and 1 goal against the Giants
7 touches, 3 marks and 2 cheap goals against the Blues
Then gets absolutely SMASHED in the VFL by LIAM BLOODY JONES. Jones took 15 marks and was BOG. Bruce kicked one bloody goal.
Josh Kennedy would struggle to kick a bag if he played for us.
- prwilkinson
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Tue 21 Sep 2010 12:17pm
- Has thanked: 67 times
- Been thanked: 132 times
Re: where this team currently sits
5-5 ... middle rung side. This team sits exactly where they should be. They'll keep getting better though. We really need to use our cap space and picks soooooooo wisely at seasons end. Hope they don't throw it all at Fyfe.