Positives going forward

kalsaint · Post: # 1006921Post **kalsaint** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 6:53pm

Knowlledge that our best is still up there with the best. Today's performance was far from our best.

Our top 5-6 players are as good or better than most other clubs.

Our second 5-6 players are quality players too but need to develop more consistency week to week to provide better impact on the big stage.

Our last 5-6 players have identified an opportunity for team list improvement.

Those between 12 and 18 are probably either young and inexperienced players that need another go to really test their futur inclusion.

The game plan needs development from what worked last year to ensure participation in finals or we face a quick slide down the laddere if we are to introduce more speedy or younger players to the team.

Believe it or not, kicking goals is motivating for the players and crowd alike. We have had a slide in this respect this year so this needs inclusion to the "new" game plan for 2011.

Recruitment now needs to think strategically. This needs to be 1-5 years rather than 1 year at a time to match the AFL strategy for change in the game. We have been caught out with pace over 8 years as the game has evolved.

While we dont want a kindergarden (Ross's words not mine) we do need youth integration as they are easily motivated. We cant inflict a tough game plan as per the current option or we will kill off the new playing brigade with injury.

jonesy · Post: # 1006925Post **jonesy** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 6:55pm

The weathers on the improve....and...hmmmm....good weather. Yep I'm out

battye · Post: # 1006941Post **battye** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:01pm

Well put, it's so hard to talk about these sort of things right now - thanks for the composed post.

I agree with everything you've said, so I'll just add to the part about kicking goals. Over the past few years we have worked on the defensive side of our game so much, and probably perfected it in 2009. Unfortunately, the window of opportunity where defensive footy will win you premierships is probably closed now. That's not to say that it should be dismissed, because to compete you need a strong defence. What I think it means is that we need to add an attacking component to our game plan. I'll leave it to the coaches to figure out how to do that, but what this month has shown us is that the key indicator has to be inside fifties. If we can increase our inside fifties exponentially, as we did to our tackle count a few years ago, then it would help tremendously. Somehow we need to revolutionise our game plan so that the ball is inside our forward fifty an unprecedented amount of times. Then the defensive component can be utilised to make sure it doesn't get out until a goal is scored.

Easier said than done, but I reckon this is what needs to be done if we are going to have another crack at the flag with this playing group.

SainterK · Post: # 1006971Post **SainterK** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:16pm

We need mobility in our forward line, I grow tired of wathing our talls trying to chase the defenders running it out of there.

What happened to the talls and smalls cohesion later this year, never appeared to be an opportunist in sight.

Not going to bag the midfield, they put in an almight effort last week, it would of been easy for the Collingwood mids to lift after their non-performance last week.

The Roo being fresher than everyone else theory was wrong, he appeared to burn out after missing so much footy.

battye · Post: # 1006992Post **battye** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:22pm

SainterK wrote:We need mobility in our forward line, I grow tired of wathing our talls trying to chase the defenders running it out of there.

What happened to the talls and smalls cohesion later this year, never appeared to be an opportunist in sight.

Not going to bag the midfield, they put in an almight effort last week, it would of been easy for the Collingwood mids to lift after their non-performance last week.

The Roo being fresher than everyone else theory was wrong, he appeared to burn out after missing so much footy.

The structure and game plan has been found wanting. Clearly, not by a lot seeing we made the Grand Final and almost won it last week. But these last few weeks have also shown cracks.

I agree SainterK the forward line seems slow, and Kosi seems extremely slow. I think he can re-invent himself as a ruckman, Grant Thomas has been saying it for a while and I think this past fortnight has shown it to be valid.

Probably some youth needs to be injected into our forward line, Stanley seems an obvious choice and hopefully is given ample opportunity next season. Maybe Steven as well. Also on our structure, I reckon we press far too much up the ground. I realise we sacrifice some defensive pressure if we keep players up forward, but too often we bombed away into an empty forward line.

samoht · Post: # 1007001Post **samoht** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:27pm

Positives - we will never choose Eddy, Peake and McQualter in the next finals... maybe even Kosi.
We should start playing Walsh and Stanley instead next year.

Negatives - our window is well and truly closed - and Collingwood's just opened unfortunately... and the next 4 cups are their's.

I reckon Collingwood is almost a certainty for the next 4 years ! .. you can almost back them in.

kalsaint · Post: # 1007015Post **kalsaint** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:33pm

SainterK wrote:We need mobility in our forward line, I grow tired of wathing our talls trying to chase the defenders running it out of there.

What happened to the talls and smalls cohesion later this year, never appeared to be an opportunist in sight.

Not going to bag the midfield, they put in an almight effort last week, it would of been easy for the Collingwood mids to lift after their non-performance last week.

The Roo being fresher than everyone else theory was wrong, he appeared to burn out after missing so much footy.

I had earlier identified What I thought needed review. I avoided the direction of how we might do this but I do agree with the mobility issue down forward plus include the 1 forward point focus used with Roo. We cant apply forward pressure as per Battye's note until we can get inside 50's and improve the mobiliy.

On another note I was a little annoyed that Nick didn't really get into the game and stayed forwad a lot with several oppostiion players hanging of him.
I was thinking at half time, move Roos as a roving player like Goddard and hace Kosi and McEvoy interchanging at full forward with Milne and Sneider at their feet.
With the bigger bodies nearer the midfield and crumbers forward there was opportunity to either feeding the tall forward or running into the forward line by either Roos or Goddard. We weren't winning enough possession in the midfield and butchered when we did have it to make the initial set up being effective.
Tall forwards only need to make the contest to provide opportunity if you have crumbers around. They were often too far away today.

saintsRrising · Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:34pm

battye wrote:
[ and Kosi seems extremely slow. I think he can re-invent himself as a ruckman, Grant Thomas has been saying it for a while and I think this past fortnight has shown it to be valid.
.

Don't mistake taking a few marks as evidence he can paly ruck. His actula ruck, ruckword is not flosh and never has been.
Happy to have him asa No 2 relief ruckman...but not as Mo1.

Personally I think Kosi's time is past. His awareness is poor...and if he does not mark he and the team is rooted.

Basically he and Josh Fraser are in the same boat. Not good enough as key forwards, and not good enough as rucks.

eppo67 · Post: # 1007022Post **eppo67** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:35pm

Smith Miles Stanley Steven Armitage Geary Walsh Heyne Lynch Simpkin. So how can we not be excited! 2 G/F sprint winners in last 2 years. We have a very bright few years ahead so HTFU people.

RodKeoghsLoveChild · Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:38pm

What a f****** joke. The only kids we have coming through are Stanley, Simpkin and Tommy boy...

Let's not kid ourselves...the next 10 years will be extremely barron.

samoht · Post: # 1007044Post **samoht** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:40pm

Kosi is gone - a 1 goal/week forward (if that) and bit ruckman is well past his prime - and hasn't fulfilled his potential I'm afraid.

I'd sooner go with kids... even Walsh.

battye · Post: # 1007047Post **battye** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:40pm

saintsRrising wrote:
battye wrote:
[ and Kosi seems extremely slow. I think he can re-invent himself as a ruckman, Grant Thomas has been saying it for a while and I think this past fortnight has shown it to be valid.
.
Don't mistake taking a few marks as evidence he can paly ruck. His actula ruck, ruckword is not flosh and never has been.
Happy to have him asa No 2 relief ruckman...but not as Mo1.

I agree, I didn't mean to imply as a number one ruckman. I think McEvoy needs to be groomed for that as a long-term prospect.

But with Gardiner most likely retiring, Kosi can be more than adequate as a number two ruckman to McEvoy (who will get better and better). I said re-invent himself because clearly it's something Kosi will need to work on., maybe that means spending the summer in Steven King's ear.

InkerSaint · Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:41pm

New facilities and $1.5M profit from 2 GF appearances will help the Saints' cause.

samoht · Post: # 1007062Post **samoht** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:42pm

Let's not live in denial - Kosi is past it .. he's holding other players back.

eppo67 · Post: # 1007066Post **eppo67** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:43pm

RodKeoghsLoveChild wrote:What a f****** joke. The only kids we have coming through are Stanley, Simpkin and Tommy boy...

Let's not kid ourselves...the next 10 years will be extremely barron.

So you don't rate Smith Miles Steven Armo Geary Heyne or Lynch. Sorry but you are a d.....head if this is what you are saying. Calm down breath and think about what you are saying.

RodKeoghsLoveChild · Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:50pm

Geary is terrible with disposal, Armitage is way 2 slow...

Heyne is yet to be decided and Lynch has SHOWN ABSOLUTEY NOTHING...

TOTAL STUPIDITY NOT TO QUESTION OUR FUTURE.

THE KIDS ARENT STEPPING UP!! WATCH A FEW SANDRINGHAM GAMES FOR f**** SAKE..

MUST BE GOOD LIVING IN DENIAL...

THE JEWS ONLY THOUGHT THEY WERE HAVING A SHOWER...

borderbarry · Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:53pm

We need to bite the bullet on a number of players who were found out for pace again today. Collingwood has now joined Essendon in the pace race. A defence of Baker, Dawson, Dempster, Blake, is far too slow. Raph will be an improvement of pace and run and carry on each of them, and Luke Miles needs to be developed. Alistair Smith, and Simpkin need to play some games next season. Walsh. we need his size and pace but I dont know where Ross plans to use him. As forwards Steven and Stanley need to be played. Stanley needs to spend time in the ruck as well.

If you look at the players the two teams left out, it tells you a lot.
All Collingwoods young and speedy players were in the team, the older plodders were not. With St.Kilda the situation was reversed. Ross and the Selectors need to consider big changes in our on field personnel.

samoht · Post: # 1007121Post **samoht** » Sat 02 Oct 2010 7:56pm

Miles and Stanley are too slight - Stanley will get there eventually .. Walsh at least has the physique.

i'd persevere with Walsh ahead of Kosi... much more upside.