Goal Kicking
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 724
- Joined: Thu 06 Dec 2007 3:14pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 115 times
Goal Kicking
Damien Hardwick said tonight on On the Couch (Foxtel). Players dont practice kicking at goal as they dont have the time at training and the conditioning staff dont like it as it can add to injury.
It is obvious that players dont practice. Yes key forwards have a bit of a kick and giggle at the end of a training session, but that is all that it is. The team that works out that it is THE HIGHEST PRIORITY will be UNBEATABLE.
Take the last 2 grand finals. Saints kicked straight we would be back to back premiers.
9.14 we loose ... we draw .... PRACTICE AS 14.9 WE WIN
It is obvious that players dont practice. Yes key forwards have a bit of a kick and giggle at the end of a training session, but that is all that it is. The team that works out that it is THE HIGHEST PRIORITY will be UNBEATABLE.
Take the last 2 grand finals. Saints kicked straight we would be back to back premiers.
9.14 we loose ... we draw .... PRACTICE AS 14.9 WE WIN
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Fri 12 Mar 2010 8:28am
Re: Goal Kicking
Good in theory but:repta wrote:Damien Hardwick said tonight on On the Couch (Foxtel). Players dont practice kicking at goal as they dont have the time at training and the conditioning staff dont like it as it can add to injury.
It is obvious that players dont practice. Yes key forwards have a bit of a kick and giggle at the end of a training session, but that is all that it is. The team that works out that it is THE HIGHEST PRIORITY will be UNBEATABLE.
Take the last 2 grand finals. Saints kicked straight we would be back to back premiers.
9.14 we loose ... we draw .... PRACTICE AS 14.9 WE WIN
1. at my club the fitness staff strictly enforce no kicking for goal after training.
2. it is practised by key forwards continiously before training, but it adds another hour onto each practise, because u need to warm up or the injury risk apply's again.
3. the last two grand finals, alot of our misses werent from set shots, (apart from roo) and the misses were on the run, and especially in a grand final, practise will have little affect and the accuracy will be all instinctive. in a normal game this will change as there is less pressure.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23230
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 738 times
- Been thanked: 1791 times
Re: Goal Kicking
Our set shot goal kicking constantly lets us down - lets face it, our skipper is a gun but not reliable.saintslegendLH wrote:Good in theory but:repta wrote:Damien Hardwick said tonight on On the Couch (Foxtel). Players dont practice kicking at goal as they dont have the time at training and the conditioning staff dont like it as it can add to injury.
It is obvious that players dont practice. Yes key forwards have a bit of a kick and giggle at the end of a training session, but that is all that it is. The team that works out that it is THE HIGHEST PRIORITY will be UNBEATABLE.
Take the last 2 grand finals. Saints kicked straight we would be back to back premiers.
9.14 we loose ... we draw .... PRACTICE AS 14.9 WE WIN
1. at my club the fitness staff strictly enforce no kicking for goal after training.
2. it is practised by key forwards continiously before training, but it adds another hour onto each practise, because u need to warm up or the injury risk apply's again.
3. the last two grand finals, alot of our misses werent from set shots, (apart from roo) and the misses were on the run, and especially in a grand final, practise will have little affect and the accuracy will be all instinctive. in a normal game this will change as there is less pressure.
Its a repeatable process that can be improved through practice - why wouldnt you?
I watched Montagna line up from 20 meters out Friday night and in the back of my mind I kept thinking....."he's no certainty here..." and he wasnt...
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Fri 12 Mar 2010 8:28am
Re: Goal Kicking
Teflon wrote:Our set shot goal kicking constantly lets us down - lets face it, our skipper is a gun but not reliable.saintslegendLH wrote:Good in theory but:repta wrote:Damien Hardwick said tonight on On the Couch (Foxtel). Players dont practice kicking at goal as they dont have the time at training and the conditioning staff dont like it as it can add to injury.
It is obvious that players dont practice. Yes key forwards have a bit of a kick and giggle at the end of a training session, but that is all that it is. The team that works out that it is THE HIGHEST PRIORITY will be UNBEATABLE.
Take the last 2 grand finals. Saints kicked straight we would be back to back premiers.
9.14 we loose ... we draw .... PRACTICE AS 14.9 WE WIN
1. at my club the fitness staff strictly enforce no kicking for goal after training.
2. it is practised by key forwards continiously before training, but it adds another hour onto each practise, because u need to warm up or the injury risk apply's again.
3. the last two grand finals, alot of our misses werent from set shots, (apart from roo) and the misses were on the run, and especially in a grand final, practise will have little affect and the accuracy will be all instinctive. in a normal game this will change as there is less pressure.
Its a repeatable process that can be improved through practice - why wouldnt you?
I watched Montagna line up from 20 meters out Friday night and in the back of my mind I kept thinking....."he's no certainty here..." and he wasnt...
I think you'll find that at training, i doubt they would miss many set shots. Dal missed one against geelong that we would ordinarily always snag. Imo the players are just shitting themselves more than before because of the added pressure, and its affecting all parts of their game.
just my opinion.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 9:11pm
- Location: Behind the goal, South Road end
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 38 times
Re: Goal Kicking
Yes, they are playing as if they everything to lose and nothing to gain, and anything but a premiership will be marked down as another failure. It's a real problem.saintslegendLH wrote: I think you'll find that at training, i doubt they would miss many set shots. Dal missed one against geelong that we would ordinarily always snag. Imo the players are just shitting themselves more than before because of the added pressure, and its affecting all parts of their game.
just my opinion.
- Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
Well let's not kick at training at all.Players dont practice kicking at goal as they dont have the time at training and the conditioning staff dont like it as it can add to injury.
And why risk handballing at training as that may cause soft tissue injuries.
And let's not run at training.
Or do weights.
In fact let's not train at all!
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Maybe the "conditioning staff" need to rethink things.Enrico_Misso wrote:Well let's not kick at training at all.Players dont practice kicking at goal as they dont have the time at training and the conditioning staff dont like it as it can add to injury.
And why risk handballing at training as that may cause soft tissue injuries.
And let's not run at training.
Or do weights.
In fact let's not train at all!
If our players were better equipped to kick goals they may not have to bust their guts for the full four quarters each week
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18607
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1950 times
- Been thanked: 854 times
The parallels with putting in golf are obvious and have been touched on in other posts.
It's the scoring part of the game, the pressure shot ... drive for show, putt for dough etc.
That's why the professionals practice their short games religiously. Hitting balls at the range might be more fun, but everything else being equal the guy who putts best will win.
Practice!
It's the scoring part of the game, the pressure shot ... drive for show, putt for dough etc.
That's why the professionals practice their short games religiously. Hitting balls at the range might be more fun, but everything else being equal the guy who putts best will win.
Practice!
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
- Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
Happy for the conditioning people to supervise warm-ups and warm-downs.
But we should take the risk and have extended goalkicking sessions.
Even if we lose the odd player with a soft tissue injury the on-field result would more than justify it.
It would also improve our mid to long distance field kicking and our ability to hit targets.
Imagine if we could lift our scoring conversion rate by 5%.
Imagine how many more games we could win?
I can think of two in particular.
But we should take the risk and have extended goalkicking sessions.
Even if we lose the odd player with a soft tissue injury the on-field result would more than justify it.
It would also improve our mid to long distance field kicking and our ability to hit targets.
Imagine if we could lift our scoring conversion rate by 5%.
Imagine how many more games we could win?
I can think of two in particular.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18607
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1950 times
- Been thanked: 854 times
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
- Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
That damning table in the Heraldscum today confirms all this.
Our percentage conversion rate from set shots is the WORST in the league.
Barely 40%
Woeful!
Confirms that we should be doing heaps and heaps of practise instead of this cottonwool rubbish.
Our percentage conversion rate from set shots is the WORST in the league.
Barely 40%
Woeful!
Confirms that we should be doing heaps and heaps of practise instead of this cottonwool rubbish.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
- Junction Oval
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2867
- Joined: Tue 30 Nov 2010 11:16am
- Been thanked: 19 times
It's interesting. Against Richmond, at the Punt Rd end, nearly all of the late misses were to the right side of the post - Milne, Montagna, Archer.
They talk to each other on these shots, but nothing changed - not once did someone miss to the left hand side
I raised the subject of general kicking practice before the end of last year. Can it be that onlty the "dud supporters" pick this up
They talk to each other on these shots, but nothing changed - not once did someone miss to the left hand side
I raised the subject of general kicking practice before the end of last year. Can it be that onlty the "dud supporters" pick this up
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Practice yes, talk yes. But maybe we're just not very good at it!Junction Oval wrote:It's interesting. Against Richmond, at the Punt Rd end, nearly all of the late misses were to the right side of the post - Milne, Montagna, Archer.
They talk to each other on these shots, but nothing changed - not once did someone miss to the left hand side
I raised the subject of general kicking practice before the end of last year. Can it be that onlty the "dud supporters" pick this up
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 724
- Joined: Thu 06 Dec 2007 3:14pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 115 times
The game has been over complicated with strategies, game plans and structures. If you ask someone to sum up the point of a game in a sentence it would go along the lines of "Kick the ball through the big sticks".
I am just dumb founded that the skill that is most neglected in practice is kicking the ball through the big sticks. The justification for this is that "it might casuse injury". What do they actually do at training. Everything I can possibly think of could potentially casuse an injury. Adding extra time to a training session is a stupid arguement as all training (eg with balls) should be aimed at kicking the ball through the big sticks. A team can be the best at marking, handballing, pressuring, running etc etc etc however it is completely useless if they go to pieces each time they need to take a shot on goal. A 40% strike rate from a set shot is a disgrace.
With a game plan that is very heavy on stop start non free flowing football, to kick 4 goals from every 10 shots is unacceptable and would not be accepted in any other sport.
Best exponent I can think of is Johnny Wilkinson
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_u ... 204746.stm
I am just dumb founded that the skill that is most neglected in practice is kicking the ball through the big sticks. The justification for this is that "it might casuse injury". What do they actually do at training. Everything I can possibly think of could potentially casuse an injury. Adding extra time to a training session is a stupid arguement as all training (eg with balls) should be aimed at kicking the ball through the big sticks. A team can be the best at marking, handballing, pressuring, running etc etc etc however it is completely useless if they go to pieces each time they need to take a shot on goal. A 40% strike rate from a set shot is a disgrace.
With a game plan that is very heavy on stop start non free flowing football, to kick 4 goals from every 10 shots is unacceptable and would not be accepted in any other sport.
Best exponent I can think of is Johnny Wilkinson
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_u ... 204746.stm
- stevie
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4898
- Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2010 9:09am
- Location: Gold Coast
- Has thanked: 194 times
- Been thanked: 144 times
So, by the logic of these 'fitness staff', if Roo does his hamstring while having a shot in a game, it's....OK????
Can you imagine Sir Alex Ferguson coming to watch an AFL team train?
'So, laddies, when d'ya doo ya goalkicking practice'?
'Um, actually, Sir Alex, we don't...too risky. chance of injury and all that'.
Uncomfortable silence...
'Are you fookers off yer fookin' rockers then? What sort of FOOTBALL club is this'?
Can you imagine Sir Alex Ferguson coming to watch an AFL team train?
'So, laddies, when d'ya doo ya goalkicking practice'?
'Um, actually, Sir Alex, we don't...too risky. chance of injury and all that'.
Uncomfortable silence...
'Are you fookers off yer fookin' rockers then? What sort of FOOTBALL club is this'?
...a team can be the best at kicking for goal, however it is completely useless if they never actually get on the park to play because of soft-tissue injuries.repta wrote:A team can be the best at marking, handballing, pressuring, running etc etc etc however it is completely useless if they go to pieces each time they need to take a shot on goal.
i don't know what the answer is, but it's not a simple as just saying "do three hours of goal-kicking each night".
- borderbarry
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6676
- Joined: Mon 19 Apr 2004 11:22pm
- Location: Wodonga
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Siposs's action is so pure I doubt it was taught at all.borderbarry wrote:Maybe the Saints need to get hold of whoever taught Aaron Sipposs to kick and put him in charge of Jones, Gilbert and Reiwoldt (and a few others).
With the three you have named they are so far into their careers that the best we can hope for are subtle tweaks.
- QuestionOfAccuracy
- Club Player
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Wed 11 Jul 2007 3:00pm
- Contact:
What constantly staggers me, is how many AFL players (not just at the Saints) don't have a goal-kicking routine. I understand that goal-kicking practice is limited because of injury-risk and so on, but to not even have a routine is just mindless. Imagine a golf player without a routine when he addresses the ball?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18607
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1950 times
- Been thanked: 854 times
Line every shot up from behind. Pick where you want it to land. Take dead aim. Check your grip, your alignment and posture. Start back low and slow. Complete your backswing and hit through the ball.QuestionOfAccuracy wrote:Imagine a golf player without a routine when he addresses the ball?
Mind you, this doesn't guarantee a good shot. All it does is gives you the best possible chance of making one.
Some of our guys resemble weekend hackers in the way they go about kicking for goal.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1427
- Joined: Tue 22 Sep 2009 8:23am
- Has thanked: 10 times
- Been thanked: 94 times
Agree Siposs can certainly kick - not sure you can just teach that to guys who have already playing footy for 10 -15 years -- But totally agree with the above sentiment - If you can't kick goals you can't win .. One more converted shot in the first 2 games and we would be sitting on 2 wins and I agree Alex Ferguson would go mental if he was told " sorry can't practice that we might get hurt".. At half a million a year some of these lads will just have to train a bit longer - come in on their day off and shoot goals all day - If you can't score from 20 metres out on a set shot and fairly simple angle - either give some of your pay back or go and train on goal kicking for a couple of hours - You can talk speed, intensity pressure work rate till the cows come home - but if you keep missing the big sticks when all the work has been done to get someone a set shot - then theres no helping us