What can we do to improve the number of inside 50's?

[battye]

We got belted with the inside 50's tonight and it's happened quite a few other times this year.

Lenny being out (clearances) and Gardiner being out (hitouts) has clearly had an impact but it seems that a lot of the problem also lies in the players running forward and seemingly having no more options once they get somewhere between the wing and half forward.

Should we always leave someone inside forward 50? One of the drawbacks of the Saints style of play does seem to be that when we have our defensive press / zone it leaves everyone in the defensive half. Any quick breaks we get seem to fall apart because there's nobody to kick to.

Should kicking long be the order of the day? I know a lot of people say that footy has gone beyond that point, but it frustrates me to no end seeing our guys handball forward and backwards getting themselves into all sorts of trouble when even a rainmaker into forward 50 would be a more desirable option.

This loss has brought us back to earth I think. A couple of wins over the last few weeks has masked where we are at this season - a long way off the pace. Persevering with the kids is the way to go. Probably the best result from this year will be that we blooded new players and got games into the youngsters while also learning a new game plan (ala 2007) but this time a more attacking one.

[SainterK]

Hasn't actually happened that much, think we've been average about 50 entries this year.

Our midfield in the last half didn't have Lenny, Dal or Joey.

The kids were given the keys

[noreason41]

Hasn't actually happened that much, think we've been average about 50 entries this year.

Our midfield in the last half didn't have Lenny, Dal or Joey.

The kids were given the keys

Agree.

I think losing Joey in the first quarter really hurt our forward 50 entries. How many times do you see Joey running from the defensive 50 to the wing and kicking it to the 50?

[battye]

Hasn't actually happened that much, think we've been average about 50 entries this year.

Our midfield in the last half didn't have Lenny, Dal or Joey.

The kids were given the keys

I couldn't find any stats to back it up, but surely we have been beaten in the inside 50s in most games?

[bigcarl]

We got belted with the inside 50's tonight and it's happened quite a few other times this year.

Lenny being out (clearances) and Gardiner being out (hitouts) has clearly had an impact but it seems that a lot of the problem also lies in the players running forward and seemingly having no more options once they get somewhere between the wing and half forward.

Should we always leave someone inside forward 50? One of the drawbacks of the Saints style of play does seem to be that when we have our defensive press / zone it leaves everyone in the defensive half. Any quick breaks we get seem to fall apart because there's nobody to kick to.

Should kicking long be the order of the day? I know a lot of people say that footy has gone beyond that point, but it frustrates me to no end seeing our guys handball forward and backwards getting themselves into all sorts of trouble when even a rainmaker into forward 50 would be a more desirable option.

This loss has brought us back to earth I think. A couple of wins over the last few weeks has masked where we are at this season - a long way off the pace. Persevering with the kids is the way to go. Probably the best result from this year will be that we blooded new players and got games into the youngsters while also learning a new game plan (ala 2007) but this time a more attacking one.

You raise a valid point. Too many numbers behind the ball. Hard to move it quickly to your forwards as Collingwood do if there's no one to go to.

[yallingup saints]

what's the point of having a forward line if they spend 3/4 of the game defensive side of the centre?

ross and his team should do themselves a favour and go to a game of auskick tomorrow.

[kalsaint]

We got belted with the inside 50's tonight and it's happened quite a few other times this year.

Lenny being out (clearances) and Gardiner being out (hitouts) has clearly had an impact but it seems that a lot of the problem also lies in the players running forward and seemingly having no more options once they get somewhere between the wing and half forward.

Should we always leave someone inside forward 50? One of the drawbacks of the Saints style of play does seem to be that when we have our defensive press / zone it leaves everyone in the defensive half. Any quick breaks we get seem to fall apart because there's nobody to kick to.

Should kicking long be the order of the day? I know a lot of people say that footy has gone beyond that point, but it frustrates me to no end seeing our guys handball forward and backwards getting themselves into all sorts of trouble when even a rainmaker into forward 50 would be a more desirable option.

This loss has brought us back to earth I think. A couple of wins over the last few weeks has masked where we are at this season - a long way off the pace. Persevering with the kids is the way to go. Probably the best result from this year will be that we blooded new players and got games into the youngsters while also learning a new game plan (ala 2007) but this time a more attacking one.

You raise a valid point. Too many numbers behind the ball. Hard to move it quickly to your forwards as Collingwood do if there's no one to go to.

Honestly, we play a very strenuous game style and the smaller bodied kids are going to struggle against bigger bodied opposition resulting in blow outs from time to time.

Yes we crowd the backline as we arent winning enough midfiield clearances and probably dont match up well enough to use one on one footy well against quality teams. Our contested footy stats hurt us here.

We score mostly from turnovers when forward by use of pressure. We dont score well in other areas and cant often kick quickly to a mobile forward line as the forward options are still recovering from the long run from defence. Slower ball movement results in the opposition crowding our forwards line as we are not the fastest team around. Turnovers also occur regularly at half forward and this leaves us open to rebound footy and the team fitness being stretched when we butcher kicks forward during the possesion time needed for the foward line to assemble in their correct positions.

In short we dont play a regulation forward line and therefore will generally score less than 100 points per game. The result is we focus on restricting high scoring teams to lower scores. This was OK in 2009 but not in 2011 when we dont have the body strength to complete quality tackles. Yes our kicking and tackling stats have decclined significantly in certain quarters (Q3 today) and blowouts then occur.

It frustrates me when I see the pressure drop off but realistically with kids in the side I should expect variations. We probably need a more regular forward structure but currently dont seem to have the cattle to impose the contested footy to allow this or have the speed to spread and deliver long accurate kicks to forwards. When we do this we lok quite good. Unfortunately we result to flooding when times get tough like today and expose our weaknesses even more.

Time will heel some of this but not this year. Have patience.

[lefty]

Can't say missing Lenny is the reason we lose the clearances.

People already forget that we got smashed in both Grand Finals in terms of center clearances.

It was highlighted over the pre season, and is still an issue.

[SainterK]

Can't say missing Lenny is the reason we lose the clearances.

People already forget that we got smashed in both Grand Finals in terms of center clearances.

It was highlighted over the pre season, and is still an issue.

I think it has more to do with the absence of Gardi, well anyone who can tap to advantage really.

[Teflon]

Clearances IS the issue here.

In todays game style if you can win these 50/50's from the centre then the game is played less in your back half.

Off season recruitment of a GENUINE tap ruck is a must. We also need to look at our midfield coaching and turn over of players through there who can win their own ball and spread from the contest. A guy like a Ledger seems to fit that bill.

[deadman walking]

get rid of lyon

[Dr Spaceman]

get rid of lyon

Wow, such breathtaking analysis and insight!

Are you on the Board? If not you should be

[InkerSaint]

Clearances IS the issue here.

In todays game style if you can win these 50/50's from the centre then the game is played less in your back half.

Off season recruitment of a GENUINE tap ruck is a must. We also need to look at our midfield coaching and turn over of players through there who can win their own ball and spread from the contest. A guy like a Ledger seems to fit that bill.

A mature ruckman that McEvoy can play 2nd to would be gravy. Arguably the more pressing need is for hard-at-it mids. Hawthorn still manage with basket case rucks because they have a bunch of hardcases like Hodge, Sewell, Osborne, Lewis on the ball.

It's funny how good your forwards look when they're getting decent supply, and your defenders because they're not constantly repelling attacks.

Warnie - get a clue!

[SainterK]

Clearances IS the issue here.

In todays game style if you can win these 50/50's from the centre then the game is played less in your back half.

Off season recruitment of a GENUINE tap ruck is a must. We also need to look at our midfield coaching and turn over of players through there who can win their own ball and spread from the contest. A guy like a Ledger seems to fit that bill.

A mature ruckman that McEvoy can play 2nd to would be gravy. Arguably the more pressing need is for hard-at-it mids. Hawthorn still manage with basket case rucks because they have a bunch of hardcases like Hodge, Sewell, Osborne, Lewis on the ball.

It's funny how good your forwards look when they're getting decent supply, and your defenders because they're not constantly repelling attacks.

Warnie - get a clue!

Agree with both of you.

Ross already highlighted he is going to have to step into the midfield side of things, if he hasn't already followed through on that, it's time. He was midfield coach at Sydney for a time, they were pretty good at extracting the ball.

I wonder if Gardi will return, any news on how his mini preseason is going?

Perhaps it's too late to make a real go of this year, but I feel sorry for our mids getting thrashed week in week out, when it's obvious that unless they have an ability to naturally rove no matter who wins the tap, then they will struggle.

Steven has this quality of roving anything, good young midfield developing there.

[Cairnsman]

The answer is to find players who are competitive beasts and enthusiastic for the contest.

Oh, and you need more than a half a dozen players with talent that is AFL standard.

[Con Gorozidis]

Clearances IS the issue here.

In todays game style if you can win these 50/50's from the centre then the game is played less in your back half.

Off season recruitment of a GENUINE tap ruck is a must. We also need to look at our midfield coaching and turn over of players through there who can win their own ball and spread from the contest. A guy like a Ledger seems to fit that bill.

Pretty simple.
WIN A F*CKING CLEARANCE.

Armo and steven are the only ones winning them for us this season.
I dont think its an accident that those 2 players have not had the luxury of relying on Len-Dog their whole careers.

Our more seasoned players have played entire careers relying on Len-Dog and without learning the art of the clearance.

[Junction Oval]

Clearances are a lot about "anticipating" where the ball will fall, not simply agression at the ball. Watch how the better players are usually half -a- step ahead in getting to the ball.

[Con Gorozidis]

Clearances are a lot about "anticipating" where the ball will fall, not simply agression at the ball. Watch how the better players are usually half -a- step ahead in getting to the ball.

agree. pendles isnt super aggressive. but he just knows where the ball is going ,