AFL Relegation Plan

[desertsaint]

Clearly a very difficult question, as the number of different ideas coming from the few posters on this thread, have indicated.

My view - let things lay as they are for the next 5 years. The economics are the driver and Melbourne in particular will not be able to support a 2-tier system. Members by the bucket load will drop off the tier 2 teams, advertisers will not want tier 2 matches, the overall TV audience/revenue will drop. The "bottom 6" poor players will turn into the "bottom 12 poor players" in tier 2 teams and they will never get back on top.

As can be seen overseas, the few wealthy clubs dominate their codes.

Revenue is the key to Club sustainability and most Clubs are carrying a lot of debt. As the weaker performing Clubs lose members/following and TV ratings for them fall, so the AFL rights will begin to diminish and the AFL will no longer want to sustain them.

The competitiion will get stronger if a few Clubs go/amalgamate - Safe = Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong. Should stay - Hawthorn, Richmond, St Kilda. Doubtful - move/amalgamate - Western Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne. Port Adelaide will not last more than a few more years.

moving back to a 12-14 team comp would be best as we could have a full H&A season. If we lose some struggling vic clubs it will also stop the unfair selling of home games from which clubs like collingwood benefit.

but the afl simply sees it as more games each week = more money.

but if we had two teams in each state bar tassie (1) and vic that gives us 8 plus 1 from tas and 1 (eventually) from nt or act = ten. room for four vic clubs only. the rest need to drop to the vfl. that would include us.
st kilda will not survive in the afl if it continues in the current format as a single victorian based entity.

this is the reality of where the afl must head unless it accepts a large competition and a compromised draw. if it accepts this imagine how much a team would struggle to attract supporters if for years they were in the bottom five of 20 clubs? especially if they were a victorian club. they would do it harder than a club fighting for promotion.

I'd rather we were in division 2 of a national league for the ocassional few years than gone forever.
maybe conferences are the way to go instead of 2 divisions, but without either of these models st kilda are most likely doomed.

[mr six o'clock]

The Afl hierachy are all about one thing , growing the game ( growth = bigger bonuses for them ) Remember Greed is good !!!! , however ultimately a system like this would only lead to the rich clubs getting richer and lesser clubs never getting nowhere . like in the EPL where every year the same rich clubs are the only teams seriously fighting for the title.

[BackFromUSA]

Icewolf - your 18 team plan looks fair and I assume the conferences of 6 you play each year at home - the next year you would play away ...

But it gives 22 rounds and a fair playing field.

I think having Carlton / Collingwood and Essendon - one in each of the 3 conferences means that there once a year clash becomes HUGE and will be MCG games each year anyway PLUS it increases the chance they will also meet in the finals ... as they are not battling each other

I hope the AFL considers this

... and now I will post my vision for 2020 and beyond!

[BackFromUSA]

AFL 2020

20 teams in total. No conferences or divisions.

New Teams: Tasmanian Devils
Northern Territory Thunder

Relocated: Canberra Kangaroos

Season Structure:
• 19 rounds in home & away season over 21 weeks
• Play each team once either home or away
• The next year if played away, then play that team home
• Over 2 years will play a team home once and away once
• Each season every team will play 9 or 10 “home gamesâ€

[Moccha]

it's all too hard, just leave it alone

[saintspremiers]

it's all too hard, just leave it alone

That's just what the lazy commission thinks!!

[plugger66]

it's all too hard, just leave it alone

That's just what the lazy commission thinks!!

Yes it is now there fault because they wont change things. Previously it is there fault because there is to much change. And then other say 14 sides but then say the AFL wont do that because they want more money. Imagine the uproar getting rid of sides. If we have the money of course you keep every side. For a start we could be one of those to go if 4 Victorian went. The afl obviously continue to stuff things up not getting rid of sides. It wa much better getting rid of Fitzroy.

[Moccha]

If the Afl splits it up in 2 divisions then they must rank equally
Simple is always best

[Dr Spaceman]

Just don’t like it.

I heard Brendan Schwab on SEN last night talking about how the bottom clubs have nothing to play for in the second half of the year under the current setup.

Well under his suggested set up those clubs would have something to play for. A chance to get back to where they were in the first place.

What a terrific reward

[desertsaint]

NT Thunder would test my loyalties - she'd be my mistress i don't tell my wife about - never leave my wife, but couldn't help having an affair.

[Ice Wolf]

Icewolf - your 18 team plan looks fair and I assume the conferences of 6 you play each year at home - the next year you would play away ...

But it gives 22 rounds and a fair playing field.

I think having Carlton / Collingwood and Essendon - one in each of the 3 conferences means that there once a year clash becomes HUGE and will be MCG games each year anyway PLUS it increases the chance they will also meet in the finals ... as they are not battling each other

I hope the AFL considers this

... and now I will post my vision for 2020 and beyond!

In my system you play your Conference Home and Away.
You then play Half of the other 2 conferences at Home and the Other Half Away. (i.e. each conference is split into a group of 3 for fixture again this is a set group) and the next you you do the opposite.

i.e. Year 1 - Conference 1a would play Conference 1 Home and Away & 2a and 3a at Home and 2b & 3b away.
Year 2 - Conference 1a would play Conference 1 Home and Away & 2b and 3b at Home and 2a & 3a away.
Year 3 - see Year 1.

[Life Long Saint]

[quote="BackFromUSA"]AFL 2020

20 teams in total. No conferences or divisions.

New Teams: Tasmanian Devils
Northern Territory Thunder

Relocated: Canberra Kangaroos

Season Structure:
• 19 rounds in home & away season over 21 weeks
• Play each team once either home or away
• The next year if played away, then play that team home
• Over 2 years will play a team home once and away once
• Each season every team will play 9 or 10 “home gamesâ€

[matrix]

so how would the draft work??

[Ice Wolf]

so how would the draft work??

In a relegation system just to make it as fair as possible.

The '2nd Division' participates in the draft
The '1st Division' poaches players from the '2nd Division' using the extra cash and free agency system

Teams as the bottom of '1st Division' and Top of '2nd Division' will just keep alternating.

All this Division bulls*** will just make it like the 'Good Old Days' where Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond and Essendon win all the flags with West Coast added in and maybe Hawthorn. and occasionally one of the other clubs might win if they can string 2 good years together (not very likely).

It will only make the rich richer and the poor poorer and wont grow a damn thing.

In a fixed conference system you can set about building the clubs up over time and every club has a shot at finas and the Premiership each year.

[Johnny Member]

Personally, I think the AFL must come up with more silverware.


I can't see how they expect clubs to survive in the AFL culture where winning a flag is the only measure of success. Man, we almost went through the H&A season udefeated in 2009, finished on top, beat every team in the comp at least once, won 2 finals - yet in pretty much everyone's eyes we're losers and failures!


It's too hard to remain financially sound without winning flags or playing in GFs.
With 18 teams (and another 2 planned), it will just be harder and harder to get people to buy memberships, and to keep fans interested for the increasingly longer periods of time it takes to rebuild until you are a contender.


If the Saints 'rebuild' and aren't a contender next year, the reality is that it will be probably 4 years before we're a chance again (if we're lucky).
If that happens, watch how many people will drop off.

However if there was still some form of 'success' that was up for grabs every year outside of the flag itself, then clubs could still stand a chance to keep their fans interested and pouring money in.


I spoke to a mate about this the other day. He agreed and spoke about the Anzac Day match for example. And how that could be a perfect opportunity to allow two clubs to 'qualify' for it somehow - and reep both the financial rewards that come with the match, the exposure and the silverware for fans to get excited about. And I'd suggest a large financial reward to the winning club.


Imagine the EPL if they only had the premiership, and nothing else for the lower clubs to get excited about. It'd be bloody hard for those clubs to survive.

[matrix]

good lord it sounds all too complicated

[Ice Wolf]

Personally, I think the AFL must come up with more silverware.


I can't see how they expect clubs to survive in the AFL culture where winning a flag is the only measure of success.
It's too hard to remain financially sound without winning flags or playing in GFs.

With 18 teams (and another 2 planned), it will just be harder and harder to get people to buy memberships, and to keep fans interested.

If the Saints 'rebuild' and aren't a contender, the reality is that it will be probably 4 years before we're a chance again (if we're lucky).
If that happens, watch how many people will drop off.

However if there was still some form of 'success' that was up for grabs every year outside of the flag itself, then clubs could still stand a chance to keep their fans interested and pouring money in.


I spoke to a mate about this the other day. He agreed and spoke about the Anzac Day match for example. And how that could be a perfect opportunity to allow two clubs to 'qualify' for it - and reep both the financial rewards that come with the match, the exposure and the silverware for fans to get excited about.


Imagine the EPL if they only had the premiership, and nothing else for the lower clubs to get excited about. It'd be bloody hard for those clubs to survive.

Conference Champions ftw

Finish top of your Conference you get some silverware and a nice check.

With Conferences you could even introduce 3 byes during the year and have round-robin conference rep games. i.e. Game 1: Conference 1 vs Conference 2 - Game 2: Conference 2 vs Conference 3 - Game 3 Conference 1 vs Conference 3

[Stephen Theodore]

Lets keep things exactly as they are. Conferences and relegation are for other countries.

Agreed.

Not a bad idea if there were 30 teams in the comp, but in the meantime, this concept seems a little too far fetched.

Agree also. Sounds too American

[Johnny Member]

Conference Champions ftw

Finish top of your Conference you get some silverware and a nice check.

They need to do something. I can't see how you can have at least 2 clubs really struggling currently, and another bunch who will struggle when they have the inveitable slide down to the ladder whilst they rebuild - and still expand the comp to 18 teams!


Even if there are conferences (and gee I hope they don't call them that!), I still think there needs to be something of value for clubs that have no hope of winning the actual titles, to be a chance to win.

The nature of our game doesn't allow instant pre-season turnarounds. You need to build for years, slowly, then you get your crack at it.
Other codes allow clubs to go on spending sprees and poach guns in the off-season and come out and immediately be a threat for the title. Even if your club is woeful one year, you still might come out and be a chanc the next. Our game doesn't work like that - if you're woeful this year, everyone knows it means you're pretty much going to be woeful for a good 4-5 years.

Asking clubs to sustain themselves financially for those years down the ladder whilst they're building, is tough. And it will get tougher when there's 20 teams going around.



Fans of stuggling clubs often go and follow the Storm, or the Victory, or back in the day the Melbourne Tigers whilst they wait for their club to come good.
They need something to keep them on board. Stripping clubs of their identities which the AFL have done, is making it harder and harder to emotionally blackmail supporters too.

[Dr Spaceman]

Lets keep things exactly as they are. Conferences and relegation are for other countries.

Agreed.

Not a bad idea if there were 30 teams in the comp, but in the meantime, this concept seems a little too far fetched.

Agree also. Sounds too American

So true.

We need to protect those Aussie traditions like the Gold Coast Suns and the GWS Giants

[Johnny Member]

Lets keep things exactly as they are. Conferences and relegation are for other countries.

Agreed.

Not a bad idea if there were 30 teams in the comp, but in the meantime, this concept seems a little too far fetched.

Agree also. Sounds too American

So true.

We need to protect those Aussie traditions like the Gold Coast Suns and the GWS Giants

The other irony is that the AFL go and visit the US each year to come up with ideas to ruin...ooops...I mean to improve our game.

They come back with the brilliant innovation of ground announcers and deafening music throughout the match!


So if we're worried about Americanisation, we're a bit late for that! The AFL have been trying to copy them for years.

[plugger66]

Lets keep things exactly as they are. Conferences and relegation are for other countries.

Agreed.

Not a bad idea if there were 30 teams in the comp, but in the meantime, this concept seems a little too far fetched.

Agree also. Sounds too American

So true.

We need to protect those Aussie traditions like the Gold Coast Suns and the GWS Giants

The other irony is that the AFL go and visit the US each year to come up with ideas to ruin...ooops...I mean to improve our game.

They come back with the brilliant innovation of ground announcers and deafening music throughout the match!


So if we're worried about Americanisation, we're a bit late for that! The AFL have been trying to copy them for years.

Those things are wrecking the game for sure.

[Johnny Member]

Lets keep things exactly as they are. Conferences and relegation are for other countries.

Agreed.

Not a bad idea if there were 30 teams in the comp, but in the meantime, this concept seems a little too far fetched.

Agree also. Sounds too American

So true.

We need to protect those Aussie traditions like the Gold Coast Suns and the GWS Giants

The other irony is that the AFL go and visit the US each year to come up with ideas to ruin...ooops...I mean to improve our game.

They come back with the brilliant innovation of ground announcers and deafening music throughout the match!


So if we're worried about Americanisation, we're a bit late for that! The AFL have been trying to copy them for years.

Those things are wrecking the game for sure.

They're certainly not improving it!

They may not be ruining it (although some certainly believe it does) but it's definitely Americanising the game - which is what some people are worried about!

[plugger66]

Lets keep things exactly as they are. Conferences and relegation are for other countries.

Agreed.

Not a bad idea if there were 30 teams in the comp, but in the meantime, this concept seems a little too far fetched.

Agree also. Sounds too American

So true.

We need to protect those Aussie traditions like the Gold Coast Suns and the GWS Giants

The other irony is that the AFL go and visit the US each year to come up with ideas to ruin...ooops...I mean to improve our game.

They come back with the brilliant innovation of ground announcers and deafening music throughout the match!


So if we're worried about Americanisation, we're a bit late for that! The AFL have been trying to copy them for years.

Those things are wrecking the game for sure.

They're certainly not improving it!

They may not be ruining it (although some certainly believe it does) but it's definitely Americanising the game - which is what some people are worried about!

And just as many would complain that there was no noise before a game. I couldnt give a stuff one way or another but people do. It is a cant win situation.

[Johnny Member]

And just as many would complain that there was no noise before a game. I couldnt give a stuff one way or another but people do. It is a cant win situation.

Yeah, certainly lots of things aren't going to please everybody.


But in reality, most people that fork out their hard earned on memberships (which we're constantly told are the life blood of clubs) are at the game because of the footy. So if these people are the lifeblood of the game, then surely this is who the AFL should be focussing on.

Blaring music doesn't enhance the footy for these people. Being told who has kicked the goals by a smooth voiced presenter doesn't help. Being told to cheer for your team doesn't help. And interviews with ferals in the crowd doesn't help at all.


So really, I think the AFL are once again sacrificing the actual footy, the game itself, for all the other s*** that goes with it.

They're taking the hardcore fans for granted and ruining the footy for them in order to try to entertain the people who show up once or twice a year.