Maybe they just didn't want him as much as we all think

[White Winmar]

I know this will raise the ire of some, but just for a moment consider the fact that the board didn't want Lyon as much as we all think they did. The measured response coming out of the club is admirable in my opinion and is a subtle pointer to the fact that their "disappointment" might not be as deep as we imagine.

Our list is far better than many give it credit for. You don't make Grand Finals with anything other than a very strong list. The core of that list, although aging, is still capable of putting out a couple more years of quality football. It certainly needs some re-engineering, but all is far from lost. One thing we don't know, because of Lyon's refusal to play and develop youngsters, is just how good the remaining talent is. Let's see how some of the younger players, when not being groomed to be mindless robots, go in an atmosphere of genuine learning and development.

We failed twice on the biggest stage using Lyon's game plan and tactics. By the end of 2010, it was obvious other sides had worked us out and were on their way to surpassing us. It's no secret that we had to design a new game plan and style. There was plenty of noise coming from the coach that we were going to do that. We were going to be more attacking, unpredictable, play on more, etc. etc. This year, we finished 13th for points scored.

When it came to the crunch, Lyon reverted to type, because he was extremely limited in his thinking and ability to create something original. In the end, he went back to the same game plan that was by now, totally ineffective against the better teams. Leading up to the Carlton game in round 24, we had played ten times against top eight teams and won once, against the Eagles at Etihad. He was already "yesterday's man" as a coach. That was further borne out by our pathetic tactical effort against the Swines. But as Ross told us, that was the "match committee's fault", not his.

The other thing that has irked me all year was his willingness to abandon the club after the Duthie and New Zealand incidents. He offered to tender his resignation, which was duly refused. His response to these incidents was the first indication to me that there was something wrong. It was the reaction of a selfish and insular individual, who was only too willing to blame others when things went wrong. Considering the extraordinary dedication the playing group had displayed in the previous 4 years, I thought he may have sought some answers rather than giving up. In any event, every football club is beset by these sorts of problems from time to time. It is during these periods that the leadership shows strength and unity, not abandonment. He seemed only to be concerned with his own reputation as a "career coach".

The appointment of Chris Pelchen also put his nose out of joint. I know this directly from a person who was involved in Pelchen's appointment. Far from Lyon looking forward to working with Pelchen, he was aggrieved that his own power base would be diminished and that he would have to answer to someone he felt was beneath him on the football knowledge "ladder". I thought one of them would go quickly because it was a case of the immovable object coming up against the irresistible force. Honestly, I thought Pelchen would lose in the end. I applaud the board for appointing Pelchen. His role is desperately needed and was designed to devolve power from the autocratic dictator Lyon had become. Remember the last time we had a supreme egotist try and control everything at our club?

Finally, apart from the money, Lyon left because of his belief that the St.Kilda list is in terminal decline. He has left he place in far worse shape than he found it and like all narcissistic mercenaries, he saw the writing on the wall and left. The extraordinary arrogance he displayed in his first WA press conference only highlighted what is an almost psychopathic personality. His lack of empathy for Mark Harvey spoke volumes about what sort of creature he is.

He came, he saw, but ultimately he failed. He claims he is in the business of winning premierships, so he clearly failed at St.Kilda. He then did what the feeble of character and limited of intellect and integrity do. He cut and ran to the next suitor, who would feed his narcissism. He will fail there as surely as he failed at the saints.

Good riddance. The club now has a wonderful opportunity to regenerate and genuinely plan for a strong and sustained future of success. Lyon was just another in a long line of self-interested narcissists who unfortunately are all too common in football and life. I, for one, believe his departure is a positive for our club. The board did nothing wrong. In the end all we've lost is a dishonest, ruthless and limited has-been.

[skeptic]

The other thing that has irked me all year was his willingness to abandon the club after the Duthie and New Zealand incidents. He offered to tender his resignation, which was duly refused. His response to these incidents was the first indication to me that there was something wrong.

how do we know this?

[karnak]

Brilliant post, thanks for the read

[SaintPav]

The other thing that has irked me all year was his willingness to abandon the club after the Duthie and New Zealand incidents. He offered to tender his resignation, which was duly refused. His response to these incidents was the first indication to me that there was something wrong.

how do we know this?

This has been reported in the media but not sure if its true?

[Buckets]

This has to be the most reasoned and straight to the point post over this whole saga!

I say BRING ON 2012!!!!!!

[SaintPav]

I know this will raise the ire of some, but just for a moment consider the fact that the board didn't want Lyon as much as we all think they did. The measured response coming out of the club is admirable in my opinion and is a subtle pointer to the fact that their "disappointment" might not be as deep as we imagine.

Our list is far better than many give it credit for. You don't make Grand Finals with anything other than a very strong list. The core of that list, although aging, is still capable of putting out a couple more years of quality football. It certainly needs some re-engineering, but all is far from lost. One thing we don't know, because of Lyon's refusal to play and develop youngsters, is just how good the remaining talent is. Let's see how some of the younger players, when not being groomed to be mindless robots, go in an atmosphere of genuine learning and development.

We failed twice on the biggest stage using Lyon's game plan and tactics. By the end of 2010, it was obvious other sides had worked us out and were on their way to surpassing us. It's no secret that we had to design a new game plan and style. There was plenty of noise coming from the coach that we were going to do that. We were going to be more attacking, unpredictable, play on more, etc. etc. This year, we finished 13th for points scored.

When it came to the crunch, Lyon reverted to type, because he was extremely limited in his thinking and ability to create something original. In the end, he went back to the same game plan that was by now, totally ineffective against the better teams. Leading up to the Carlton game in round 24, we had played ten times against top eight teams and won once, against the Eagles at Etihad. He was already "yesterday's man" as a coach. That was further borne out by our pathetic tactical effort against the Swines. But as Ross told us, that was the "match committee's fault", not his.

The other thing that has irked me all year was his willingness to abandon the club after the Duthie and New Zealand incidents. He offered to tender his resignation, which was duly refused. His response to these incidents was the first indication to me that there was something wrong. It was the reaction of a selfish and insular individual, who was only too willing to blame others when things went wrong. Considering the extraordinary dedication the playing group had displayed in the previous 4 years, I thought he may have sought some answers rather than giving up. In any event, every football club is beset by these sorts of problems from time to time. It is during these periods that the leadership shows strength and unity, not abandonment. He seemed only to be concerned with his own reputation as a "career coach".

The appointment of Chris Pelchen also put his nose out of joint. I know this directly from a person who was involved in Pelchen's appointment. Far from Lyon looking forward to working with Pelchen, he was aggrieved that his own power base would be diminished and that he would have to answer to someone he felt was beneath him on the football knowledge "ladder". I thought one of them would go quickly because it was a case of the immovable object coming up against the irresistible force. Honestly, I thought Pelchen would lose in the end. I applaud the board for appointing Pelchen. His role is desperately needed and was designed to devolve power from the autocratic dictator Lyon had become. Remember the last time we had a supreme egotist try and control everything at our club?

Finally, apart from the money, Lyon left because of his belief that the St.Kilda list is in terminal decline. He has left he place in far worse shape than he found it and like all narcissistic mercenaries, he saw the writing on the wall and left. The extraordinary arrogance he displayed in his first WA press conference only highlighted what is an almost psychopathic personality. His lack of empathy for Mark Harvey spoke volumes about what sort of creature he is.

He came, he saw, but ultimately he failed. He claims he is in the business of winning premierships, so he clearly failed at St.Kilda. He then did what the feeble of character and limited of intellect and integrity do. He cut and ran to the next suitor, who would feed his narcissism. He will fail there as surely as he failed at the saints.

Good riddance. The club now has a wonderful opportunity to regenerate and genuinely plan for a strong and sustained future of success. Lyon was just another in a long line of self-interested narcissists who unfortunately are all too common in football and life. I, for one, believe his departure is a positive for our club. The board did nothing wrong. In the end all we've lost is a dishonest, ruthless and limited has-been.

Was Ross involved in Pelchen's appointment? I heard reports he rubber stamped it.

Is it true that RL had to report to Pelchen?

[markp]

They either didn't want him all that much, or they dithered and got gazumped.... but I don't see how you ultimately offer someone what they were initially seeking with a 4 year deal if you don't really want them.

But guess what, it doesn't matter now.... we have an opportunity to find a great (maybe even a better) coach, or root ourselves completely, that's all that matters... let's hope we don't blow it.

[SainterK]

There is also the business of 'unwatchable' football.

It has impacted crowds, TV audiences, sponsorship must be harder to push when nobody is watching?

It's obviously been an issue for awhile, and let's be honest, the balance between attack and defence has never been addressed properly.

[barks4eva]

Quality post WW, you make many good points!


You're 100% accurate in your summation that perhaps the board did not want Lyon as much as they would have everyone believe



hence why Lyon left



Who knows, in the longer term this might be a very good thing!



It is far too simplistic to label Ross Lyon a liar and traitor as most do


the board and Lyon were not on the same page


the appointment of Pelchen was very defining and the straw that broke the camels back


At the end of the day we might be better off with Lyon gone


BUT the board didn't see it coming and were caught unaware by a situation they manufactured


time will tell



anyway good to read an intelligent post on here for a change


although when you wrote the board did nothing wrong is definitely up for debate


true the board did not want him as much as most would imagine to be otherwise


and if by their actions, one being the appointment of Pelchen


the place now implodes, star players leave as a result and it all goes completely pear shaped history will judge them for having got this horribly wrong

[Wrote for Luck]

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case in terms of Lyon's ability being limited as a coach.

Game plan wise this year we were meant to show something new going forward. What did we get?

I'll tell you; a high play on percentage.

Wowzers!

No good if you cough it up most times you do.

Lyon is best go back to strangulation football and see if works with a big ruckman.

Jumpin' Judas

[joffaboy]

The other thing that has irked me all year was his willingness to abandon the club after the Duthie and New Zealand incidents. He offered to tender his resignation, which was duly refused. His response to these incidents was the first indication to me that there was something wrong.

how do we know this?

This has been reported in the media but not sure if its true?

Categorically denied by Nettlefold on SEN yesterday morning.

[stinger]

I know this will raise the ire of some, but just for a moment consider the fact that the board didn't want Lyon as much as we all think they did. The measured response coming out of the club is admirable in my opinion and is a subtle pointer to the fact that their "disappointment" might not be as deep as we imagine.

Our list is far better than many give it credit for. You don't make Grand Finals with anything other than a very strong list. The core of that list, although aging, is still capable of putting out a couple more years of quality football. It certainly needs some re-engineering, but all is far from lost. One thing we don't know, because of Lyon's refusal to play and develop youngsters, is just how good the remaining talent is. Let's see how some of the younger players, when not being groomed to be mindless robots, go in an atmosphere of genuine learning and development.

We failed twice on the biggest stage using Lyon's game plan and tactics. By the end of 2010, it was obvious other sides had worked us out and were on their way to surpassing us. It's no secret that we had to design a new game plan and style. There was plenty of noise coming from the coach that we were going to do that. We were going to be more attacking, unpredictable, play on more, etc. etc. This year, we finished 13th for points scored.

When it came to the crunch, Lyon reverted to type, because he was extremely limited in his thinking and ability to create something original. In the end, he went back to the same game plan that was by now, totally ineffective against the better teams. Leading up to the Carlton game in round 24, we had played ten times against top eight teams and won once, against the Eagles at Etihad. He was already "yesterday's man" as a coach. That was further borne out by our pathetic tactical effort against the Swines. But as Ross told us, that was the "match committee's fault", not his.

The other thing that has irked me all year was his willingness to abandon the club after the Duthie and New Zealand incidents. He offered to tender his resignation, which was duly refused. His response to these incidents was the first indication to me that there was something wrong. It was the reaction of a selfish and insular individual, who was only too willing to blame others when things went wrong. Considering the extraordinary dedication the playing group had displayed in the previous 4 years, I thought he may have sought some answers rather than giving up. In any event, every football club is beset by these sorts of problems from time to time. It is during these periods that the leadership shows strength and unity, not abandonment. He seemed only to be concerned with his own reputation as a "career coach".

The appointment of Chris Pelchen also put his nose out of joint. I know this directly from a person who was involved in Pelchen's appointment. Far from Lyon looking forward to working with Pelchen, he was aggrieved that his own power base would be diminished and that he would have to answer to someone he felt was beneath him on the football knowledge "ladder". I thought one of them would go quickly because it was a case of the immovable object coming up against the irresistible force. Honestly, I thought Pelchen would lose in the end. I applaud the board for appointing Pelchen. His role is desperately needed and was designed to devolve power from the autocratic dictator Lyon had become. Remember the last time we had a supreme egotist try and control everything at our club?

Finally, apart from the money, Lyon left because of his belief that the St.Kilda list is in terminal decline. He has left he place in far worse shape than he found it and like all narcissistic mercenaries, he saw the writing on the wall and left. The extraordinary arrogance he displayed in his first WA press conference only highlighted what is an almost psychopathic personality. His lack of empathy for Mark Harvey spoke volumes about what sort of creature he is.

He came, he saw, but ultimately he failed. He claims he is in the business of winning premierships, so he clearly failed at St.Kilda. He then did what the feeble of character and limited of intellect and integrity do. He cut and ran to the next suitor, who would feed his narcissism. He will fail there as surely as he failed at the saints.

Good riddance. The club now has a wonderful opportunity to regenerate and genuinely plan for a strong and sustained future of success. Lyon was just another in a long line of self-interested narcissists who unfortunately are all too common in football and life. I, for one, believe his departure is a positive for our club. The board did nothing wrong. In the end all we've lost is a dishonest, ruthless and limited has-been.

excellent thought provoking post...i'm betting that you are 100% correct...

[Dr Spaceman]

although when you wrote the board did nothing wrong is definitely up for debate


true the board did not want him as much as most would imagine to be otherwise


and if by their actions, one being the appointment of Pelchen


the place now implodes, star players leave as a result and it all goes completely pear shaped history will judge them for having got this horribly wrong

For God's sake man, 




stick the tube back in your arm! 

[joffaboy]

You're 100% accurate in your summation that perhaps the board did not want Lyon as much as they would have everyone believe

provide proof or STFU.

hence why Lyon left

straw man alert

Who knows, in the longer term this might be a very good thing!

You sure wouldn't

It is far too simplistic to label Ross Lyon a liar and traitor as most do

stupid to call him a traitor. He was a coach. Also this loyalty thing is crap as well.

the only people loyal to a club are the supporters.

He is a liar though.

the board and Lyon were not on the same page

proof or STFU

the appointment of Pelchen was very defining and the straw that broke the camels back

so you confirm Lyon is a liar as he said the straw was getting a Freo contract faster than a Saints contract.

either that or you are clueless and another Straw man alert is on the table

At the end of the day we might be better off with Lyon gone

who knows, certainly not one of lifes losers like you.

BUT the board didn't see it coming and were caught unaware by a situation they manufactured

Straw man alert. Board caught unawares as Lyon wanted to discuss contract at seasons end, as my thread earlier shows Lyons stated categorically he would honour his contract to the end of 2012, then went behind everyones back and dealt with Freo weeks before the end of the season and then walked out on his contract that he stated he would honour.

But oh no according to corporate B4E (lol what a joke) Lyon didn't lie.

anyway good to read an intelligent post on here for a change

As opposed to the ignorant clueless one dimension rigid left brain asbergers drivvel you write.

although when you wrote the board did nothing wrong is definitely up for debate

lol - you dont debate, you berate. You build straw man arguments on the flimiest of arguments and then run with them like it is gospel.

Lacks a bit of critical thinking one suspects. Compensating for your inadequecies in life are you barks? - lol

true the board did not want him as much as most would imagine to be otherwise

proof or STFU

and if by their actions, one being the appointment of Pelchen

proof or STFU

the place now implodes, star players leave as a result and it all goes completely pear shaped history will judge them for having got this horribly wrong

History has judged you on your RIX fanboi circle jerk.

CLUELESS undereducated cabbage

[White Winmar]

Categorically denied by Nettlefold on SEN yesterday morning.[/quote]

Sorry JB, should have clarified. Wasn't officially offered but definitely spoken about. He was not happy apparently and was making noises that he would walk. Technicality only. I trust my source, who tells me he definitely talked about doing it and had to be convinced otherwise. Semantics.

[joffaboy]

Categorically denied by Nettlefold on SEN yesterday morning.

Sorry JB, should have clarified. Wasn't officially offered but definitely spoken about. He was not happy apparently and was making noises that he would walk. Technicality only. I trust my source, who tells me he definitely talked about doing it and had to be convinced otherwise. Semantics.[/quote]

cheers WW.

Too bad he didn't in hindsight. We could have used this year a s a development year with a new coach and not allowed Lyon to waste it as he certainly did pretending to us that he was after a flag instead of making himself more attractive with his win/loss record.

Its all coming clear now why Lyon wouldn't persist with uninjured players like Johnson, Walsh and Archer (or Simpkin, Smith etc).

Also makes me wonder if he was lying when he said Sipposs, Ledger and Cripps would have got more games if fit.

i cant believe a single thing this liar has said.

man of his word pfft

[Old Mate]

Great post, it's obvious you put a lot of effort into it. However the flaw in your post is we offered Lyon a 4 year contact therefor we wanted him bad enough to lock him in for a substantial period.

[saintsRrising]

Was Ross involved in Pelchen's appointment? I heard reports he rubber stamped it.

Don't know.

However he must have been involved in the appointment in some way shape, or form, as Lyon and Pelchen were spotted having coffee together just before the appointment was announced.

At the Cats Balme was appointed as Football manager and Bomber at the time was very annoyed and resentful. He admitted later in hindsight that it was a very good move as it freed him up to just concentrate on coaching.

[bobmurray]

I know this will raise the ire of some, but just for a moment consider the fact that the board didn't want Lyon as much as we all think they did. The measured response coming out of the club is admirable in my opinion and is a subtle pointer to the fact that their "disappointment" might not be as deep as we imagine.

Our list is far better than many give it credit for. You don't make Grand Finals with anything other than a very strong list. The core of that list, although aging, is still capable of putting out a couple more years of quality football. It certainly needs some re-engineering, but all is far from lost. One thing we don't know, because of Lyon's refusal to play and develop youngsters, is just how good the remaining talent is. Let's see how some of the younger players, when not being groomed to be mindless robots, go in an atmosphere of genuine learning and development.

We failed twice on the biggest stage using Lyon's game plan and tactics. By the end of 2010, it was obvious other sides had worked us out and were on their way to surpassing us. It's no secret that we had to design a new game plan and style. There was plenty of noise coming from the coach that we were going to do that. We were going to be more attacking, unpredictable, play on more, etc. etc. This year, we finished 13th for points scored.

When it came to the crunch, Lyon reverted to type, because he was extremely limited in his thinking and ability to create something original. In the end, he went back to the same game plan that was by now, totally ineffective against the better teams. Leading up to the Carlton game in round 24, we had played ten times against top eight teams and won once, against the Eagles at Etihad. He was already "yesterday's man" as a coach. That was further borne out by our pathetic tactical effort against the Swines. But as Ross told us, that was the "match committee's fault", not his.

The other thing that has irked me all year was his willingness to abandon the club after the Duthie and New Zealand incidents. He offered to tender his resignation, which was duly refused. His response to these incidents was the first indication to me that there was something wrong. It was the reaction of a selfish and insular individual, who was only too willing to blame others when things went wrong. Considering the extraordinary dedication the playing group had displayed in the previous 4 years, I thought he may have sought some answers rather than giving up. In any event, every football club is beset by these sorts of problems from time to time. It is during these periods that the leadership shows strength and unity, not abandonment. He seemed only to be concerned with his own reputation as a "career coach".

The appointment of Chris Pelchen also put his nose out of joint. I know this directly from a person who was involved in Pelchen's appointment. Far from Lyon looking forward to working with Pelchen, he was aggrieved that his own power base would be diminished and that he would have to answer to someone he felt was beneath him on the football knowledge "ladder". I thought one of them would go quickly because it was a case of the immovable object coming up against the irresistible force. Honestly, I thought Pelchen would lose in the end. I applaud the board for appointing Pelchen. His role is desperately needed and was designed to devolve power from the autocratic dictator Lyon had become. Remember the last time we had a supreme egotist try and control everything at our club?

Finally, apart from the money, Lyon left because of his belief that the St.Kilda list is in terminal decline. He has left he place in far worse shape than he found it and like all narcissistic mercenaries, he saw the writing on the wall and left. The extraordinary arrogance he displayed in his first WA press conference only highlighted what is an almost psychopathic personality. His lack of empathy for Mark Harvey spoke volumes about what sort of creature he is.

He came, he saw, but ultimately he failed. He claims he is in the business of winning premierships, so he clearly failed at St.Kilda. He then did what the feeble of character and limited of intellect and integrity do. He cut and ran to the next suitor, who would feed his narcissism. He will fail there as surely as he failed at the saints.

Good riddance. The club now has a wonderful opportunity to regenerate and genuinely plan for a strong and sustained future of success. Lyon was just another in a long line of self-interested narcissists who unfortunately are all too common in football and life. I, for one, believe his departure is a positive for our club. The board did nothing wrong. In the end all we've lost is a dishonest, ruthless and limited has-been.

Good post and you made some good points......i'm rapt he's gone and i'm looking forward to what happens next...it might be great or it might be shite...it's all unknown...i just hope they don't appoint someone that makes us all think......WTF........

[BelfastSaint]

Our resident player relative poster has suggested that the players were not at all unhappy to see the back of Lyon ...
In fact he suggested that the players were positively overjoyed by Lyons departure ...

Anyone know any more on the player coach relationship ...???

[Scollop]

although when you wrote the board did nothing wrong is definitely up for debate


true the board did not want him as much as most would imagine to be otherwise


and if by their actions, one being the appointment of Pelchen


the place now implodes, star players leave as a result and it all goes completely pear shaped history will judge them for having got this horribly wrong

Go join a cult if you haven't already done so. You obviously believe in Messiahs. You're the sort of bloke that would drink the poison, because your messiah tells you its the 'solution' to your salvation...

Our club and every AFL club is built around the playing list and its stars and its core on-field group. If you don't understand that then you are in imbecile.

True leaders that have become legends in our game are fundamentally positive, inspirational, role models as people. Jeansy wasn't just a great coach, he was a great leader. Great coaches get the best out of their cattle because they motivate them through positive reinforcement. I can't stand people like Ross who ooze negativity and cannot teach through positive reinforcement. People like Ross Lyon blame others because its easier being negative than being positive. You are in control of a lot more than you think you are, or you throw your hands up in the air (with Ross it would be that fu##cking sideways glance and he'd whince his face towards his assisatants in the coaches box) and blame others.

Ross Lyons philosophy on footy was inherited from Paul Roos as we all know, but I reckon it also reflects his personality and the fact that he never got the balance right between attack and defence. He couldn't get the balance right between encouraging and motivating established Saints players either, or the young guys that were recruited by people before him. He would rather 'throw' out a player rather than work with them and teach them and inspire them. Hence the 'recycled' philosophy instead of the teach a talented young kid philosophy, or the I can improve you and build on your strengths thinking. He was too stubborn to back a seasoned finals performer in Ball because he believed that someone else was going to do a better job or fill the 'role.' Anyone who agreed with that decision probably has a 'half glass empty' mentality like Mr R Lyon.

Anyway, I'm getting off the point as I often do... the point is; 'Stop being negative. Our club will be better off without the scumbag'!!

[stinger]

although when you wrote the board did nothing wrong is definitely up for debate


true the board did not want him as much as most would imagine to be otherwise


and if by their actions, one being the appointment of Pelchen


the place now implodes, star players leave as a result and it all goes completely pear shaped history will judge them for having got this horribly wrong

Go join a cult if you haven't already done so. You obviously believe in Messiahs. You're the sort of bloke that would drink the poison, because your messiah tells you its the 'solution' to your salvation...

Our club and every AFL club is built around the playing list and its stars and its core on-field group. If you don't understand that then you are in imbecile.

True leaders and coaches that have become legends in our game and these legends are fundamentally positive, inspirational, role models as people. They get the best out of their cattle because they motivate them through positive reinforcement.

I can't stand people who teach through negativity and people who think that everything is out of their control. His philosophy on footy was inherited from Paul Roos as we all know, but I reckon it also reflects his personality and the fact that he never got the balance right between attack and defence. He couldn't get the balance right between encouraging and motivating established Saints players either, or the young guys that were recruited by people before him. he would rather 'throw' out a player rather than work with them and teach them and inspire them. Hence the 'recycled' philosophy instead of the teach a talented young kid philosophy. He was too stubborn to back Hudghton, because he believed that Dawson would do a better job. He recruited Dawson didn't he?

Anyway, I'm getting off the point as I often do... the point is; 'Stop being negative. Our club will be better off without the scumbag'!!

i think i'm going to like you...

[White Winmar]

Great post, it's obvious you put a lot of effort into it. However the flaw in your post is we offered Lyon a 4 year contact therefor we wanted him bad enough to lock him in for a substantial period.

I just want to clarify something Old Mate. They wanted him, otherwise they wouldn't have offered him a new deal. Agree totally. I've never said they didn't want him. What I'm suggesting in my post is that they are not heartbroken by his defection. For stability's sake it may have been better for him to stay another year. Had he stayed for four, I think it would've been disastrous. That is MY opinion. My sources tell me they are disappointed, but not as much as you might think, that's all. It would appear, that while not ideal, internally the club is less than shattered. Standby for more to come out, especially once the retirees/delistings talk. Hope that clear that up.

[Teflon]

Great post WW.

I also think that just cause we offered him a 4 yr deal.....doesnt necessarily mean we were gonna die to keep him...other thing is the timing....this 4 yr deal took an awful long time to come.....there MUST have been some concern at Board level...

[Dr Spaceman]

Great post WW.

I also think that just cause we offered him a 4 yr deal.....doesnt necessarily mean we were gonna die to keep him...other thing is the timing....this 4 yr deal took an awful long time to come.....there MUST have been some concern at Board level...

It's certainly starting to look that way