Could have been worse RE: Walsh

[joffaboy]

Funny....Im the guy who presents things as 'FACTS

Yup thats you alright'

thats right....I forgot

Too bad you never let us forget your opinion stated as fact

Remind me again....who used the word FACTS in this thread....

Why again. Who reminded you the first time

what money is Walsh on exactly???

Ask Sydney

Maybe someone got a txt from a few close friends and knows the exact facts and can report them as such

Maybe someone is a full of themselves arrogant rude BS artist. Dont know, just sayin'

Apologist D***heads

Apologist about what exactly?

because we dont subscribe to your twaddle and egomaniac self aggrandiosement?

Got over yourself you bigheaded goose.

BTW we all know on here who Attilla Sipposs thought was a d**khead

Dill

[hayes66]

Funny....Im the guy who presents things as 'FACTS

Yup thats you alright'

thats right....I forgot

Too bad you never let us forget your opinion stated as fact

Remind me again....who used the word FACTS in this thread....

Why again. Who reminded you the first time

what money is Walsh on exactly???

Ask Sydney

Maybe someone got a txt from a few close friends and knows the exact facts and can report them as such

Maybe someone is a full of themselves arrogant rude BS artist. Dont know, just sayin'

Apologist D***heads

Apologist about what exactly?

because we dont subscribe to your twaddle and egomaniac self aggrandiosement?

Got over yourself you bigheaded goose.

BTW we all know on here who Attilla Sipposs thought was a d**khead

Dill

I really like the relevant arguments you bring up. You present a solid case in all of your views. The "FACT" Attilla Sipposs doesnt see eye to eye with BIGmart is another relevant point as to why BIGmart is wrong. Please go on.

[The Fireman]

My 2 bobs...I wanted to see this guy play..was hangin , but well.. I'll put my trust in those who thought he couldn't make the cut and I will move on.
If he proves to be a good player I will ask questions, in the meantime all quiet on the western front.

[joffaboy]

Funny....Im the guy who presents things as 'FACTS

Yup thats you alright'

thats right....I forgot

Too bad you never let us forget your opinion stated as fact

Remind me again....who used the word FACTS in this thread....

Why again. Who reminded you the first time

what money is Walsh on exactly???

Ask Sydney

Maybe someone got a txt from a few close friends and knows the exact facts and can report them as such

Maybe someone is a full of themselves arrogant rude BS artist. Dont know, just sayin'

Apologist D***heads

Apologist about what exactly?

because we dont subscribe to your twaddle and egomaniac self aggrandiosement?

Got over yourself you bigheaded goose.

BTW we all know on here who Attilla Sipposs thought was a d**khead

Dill

I really like the relevant arguments you bring up. You present a solid case in all of your views. The "FACT" Attilla Sipposs doesnt see eye to eye with BIGmart is another relevant point as to why BIGmart is wrong. Please go on.

Are you in love with BigMart?

Dont like it dont read, or better still dont post at all.

[Richter]

...meme...delusion...

Lol, have you swallowed a Richard Dawkins book recently jb?

Anyhow, on this I mostly agree with you. I put myself in to Walsh's shoes... He wants to make the most out of this Australian experience as he can... that means opportunity to play, but also travel... and $$. He probably sees himself going back to the Emerald Isle when he finishes up. And I imagine that both he and his gf like the idea of living in Sydney, with it's much bigger ex-pat community. They'll have a blast up there, and he'll be making a bit of decent coin to set himself up for after footy.

I don't doubt that he was happy enough in Melbourne, but I can certainly set that existentially a move to Sydney at this time in his life makes a lot of sense. I really can't begrudge him that.

[joffaboy]

lol - The Walsh Delusion.

Another polemic, if ever there was one

[hayes66]

How do you know they left for those reasons. Pretty everyone thinks Walsh left because the deal was to good to not take it but of course you know. Can you tell us how you know though.

You ask why this and why that on everyones posts, but why do you stand up for ross lyon and how it wasnt a stuff up by him not to play walsh and that he has developed our list well? Its hard to say things with the tone you want when writing but I am not having a go I am sincerely interested on your point of view as you seem to be defending lyon in these matters.

I couldnt give a stuff about RL. Didnt even care one bit that he left but this re writing of history on here becomes a bit much. I have no doubt what so ever that Walsh left for money and not because he didnt get a game or two unless you think he is just a big sook. I also have no doubt the club had bugger all interest in keeping Lynch. He may have been pissed off with RL but from what I saw he played the right amount of games this year. I certainly dont reckon he deserved anymore.

The problem with some on this site is they fall in love with players and coaches and when they desert them they go the other way and say they are arseholes and couldnt play. Having a bit to do with some players over the years I have had to not become emotionally involved as I once was with players and coaches.

And then there are other people who just bag anything done by the club. Of course they usually do it with great hindsight.

I agree with you in saying that supporters swing depending on whether a coach or player leaves, but I will say i do think it was a mistake walsh wasnt played and as a supporter whilst we try to be neutral, part of supporting is investing your hopes into players. I wasnt of the opinion walsh was our saviour but I was investing my interests in him playing for our club. I do not wish to swing opinions now that his left so Im sticking to that I think it was a mistake he wasnt played. Some supporters who argue Walsh wasnt of value because he never played a game or proved himself at AFL level are now quite happy to say Ahmaad Saad is a ready made star and what a great coup it has been to get him when he has proved nothing at AFL level.

[markp]

...meme...delusion...

Lol, have you swallowed a Richard Dawkins book recently jb?

Anyhow, on this I mostly agree with you. I put myself in to Walsh's shoes... He wants to make the most out of this Australian experience as he can... that means opportunity to play, but also travel... and $$. He probably sees himself going back to the Emerald Isle when he finishes up. And I imagine that both he and his gf like the idea of living in Sydney, with it's much bigger ex-pat community. They'll have a blast up there, and he'll be making a bit of decent coin to set himself up for after footy.

I don't doubt that he was happy enough in Melbourne, but I can certainly set that existentially a move to Sydney at this time in his life makes a lot of sense. I really can't begrudge him that.

Yup, we know in all likelihood we're talking about around $150k vs $300k x 3?... living in Coogee with half of Ireland, Irish gf very happy, Kennelly in his ear selling all this... not a hard decision for someone who may not even see another contract.

Peeps are getting very silly about this.....

[hayes66]

Funny....Im the guy who presents things as 'FACTS

Yup thats you alright'

thats right....I forgot

Too bad you never let us forget your opinion stated as fact

Remind me again....who used the word FACTS in this thread....

Why again. Who reminded you the first time

what money is Walsh on exactly???

Ask Sydney

Maybe someone got a txt from a few close friends and knows the exact facts and can report them as such

Maybe someone is a full of themselves arrogant rude BS artist. Dont know, just sayin'

Apologist D***heads

Apologist about what exactly?

because we dont subscribe to your twaddle and egomaniac self aggrandiosement?

Got over yourself you bigheaded goose.

BTW we all know on here who Attilla Sipposs thought was a d**khead

Dill

I really like the relevant arguments you bring up. You present a solid case in all of your views. The "FACT" Attilla Sipposs doesnt see eye to eye with BIGmart is another relevant point as to why BIGmart is wrong. Please go on.

Are you in love with BigMart?

Dont like it dont read, or better still dont post at all.

haha and thank you for continuing. gold arguments. yep i love bigmart. and another classic, I do like it and im loving reading it. dont see why I have to stop posting cause i disagree with you when all your arguments so far have been due to a distaste for big mart comments.

[hayes66]

...meme...delusion...

Lol, have you swallowed a Richard Dawkins book recently jb?

Anyhow, on this I mostly agree with you. I put myself in to Walsh's shoes... He wants to make the most out of this Australian experience as he can... that means opportunity to play, but also travel... and $$. He probably sees himself going back to the Emerald Isle when he finishes up. And I imagine that both he and his gf like the idea of living in Sydney, with it's much bigger ex-pat community. They'll have a blast up there, and he'll be making a bit of decent coin to set himself up for after footy.

I don't doubt that he was happy enough in Melbourne, but I can certainly set that existentially a move to Sydney at this time in his life makes a lot of sense. I really can't begrudge him that.

Yup, we know in all likelihood we're talking about around $150k vs $300k x 3?... living in Coogee with half of Ireland, Irish gf very happy, Kennelly in his ear selling all this... not a hard decision for someone who may not even see another contract.

Peeps are getting very silly about this.....

I never said walsh would of stayed if he got a game i just believe he deserved one and it wouldnt have hurt the cause. Of course sydneys offer is a main reason why he left, but if he had cemented his spot at stkilda which i believe may have been a possibility if he was given a game, it could have been a different scenario. Same situation as Geelong with Mumford, Mumford left because sydney gave him a great deal but it was also because Geelong selected blake ahead of him which was a mistake. Mumford came out and said he would of stayed had he been selected. Mumford wouldnt have left if not for sydneys offer but if he was in geelongs 22 he may have stayed. Dont see why this is such a ridiculous argument. I dont think Tommy was the second coming but I do think he deserved a game.

[Verdun66]

I was hoping for a bit more out of trade week I must admit. Another poster said our drafting and trading since 2005 had been disastrous, and as a generalisation that is right. We've had the odd few things come right, but lots wrong.

Pelchen has been there a very short time, and can't right all the wrongs in the first year. But it looks like he's made a start, and we seemed to do things smarter. Losing Walsh isn't great, but how tight we are on money, and the Sydney success with the Irish would have turned his head. Lots more money, and Kenneally, Tudor and Berbakov in his ear meant we had to get something. Think it's called cutting your losses, which is what we failed to do with Ball.

Our ruck situation is pretty dire. Everyone goes on about mid-fielders, but we need back up even with the situation that rucks are less important. If Big Mac goes down who have we got? Kosi, Blakey, Archer? Wonder if that is a PSD target.

Thought we'd trade out a Gilbert, Gram or Clarke....but maybe they couldn't get enough in return.

All these picks Gold Coast and GWS will get...surely in the next 2-3 years there will be some fall out. Not all of them will get a go, or some will start slowly. Can't help but think that drafts and trading in the next couple of years might shake a few of these high draft picks out.

[markp]

...meme...delusion...

Lol, have you swallowed a Richard Dawkins book recently jb?

Anyhow, on this I mostly agree with you. I put myself in to Walsh's shoes... He wants to make the most out of this Australian experience as he can... that means opportunity to play, but also travel... and $$. He probably sees himself going back to the Emerald Isle when he finishes up. And I imagine that both he and his gf like the idea of living in Sydney, with it's much bigger ex-pat community. They'll have a blast up there, and he'll be making a bit of decent coin to set himself up for after footy.

I don't doubt that he was happy enough in Melbourne, but I can certainly set that existentially a move to Sydney at this time in his life makes a lot of sense. I really can't begrudge him that.

Yup, we know in all likelihood we're talking about around $150k vs $300k x 3?... living in Coogee with half of Ireland, Irish gf very happy, Kennelly in his ear selling all this... not a hard decision for someone who may not even see another contract.

Peeps are getting very silly about this.....

I never said walsh would of stayed if he got a game i just believe he deserved one and it wouldnt have hurt the cause. Of course sydneys offer is a main reason why he left, but if he had cemented his spot at stkilda which i believe may have been a possibility if he was given a game, it could have been a different scenario. Same situation as Geelong with Mumford, Mumford left because sydney gave him a great deal but it was also because Geelong selected blake ahead of him which was a mistake. Mumford came out and said he would of stayed had he been selected. Mumford wouldnt have left if not for sydneys offer but if he was in geelongs 22 he may have stayed. Dont see why this is such a ridiculous argument. I dont think Tommy was the second coming but I do think he deserved a game.

How many games would it have taken to convince him to stay?

Do you think Watters told him he'd get games?

Sorry, but to me it is ridiculous.

Of course we wanted him, of course we intended to play him, we are the ones who brought him over and developed him, then promoted him.

[3rd generation saint]

Sadly, he's gone, time to move on.

[fugazi]

How much emotional intell would it have required to give the guy a couple of games? In the end nothing the new coach said, or the offer of senior list and good pay made any difference because he'd made his mind up that he had no future at StKilda. Crap development from Ross.

[hayes66]

...meme...delusion...

Lol, have you swallowed a Richard Dawkins book recently jb?

Anyhow, on this I mostly agree with you. I put myself in to Walsh's shoes... He wants to make the most out of this Australian experience as he can... that means opportunity to play, but also travel... and $$. He probably sees himself going back to the Emerald Isle when he finishes up. And I imagine that both he and his gf like the idea of living in Sydney, with it's much bigger ex-pat community. They'll have a blast up there, and he'll be making a bit of decent coin to set himself up for after footy.

I don't doubt that he was happy enough in Melbourne, but I can certainly set that existentially a move to Sydney at this time in his life makes a lot of sense. I really can't begrudge him that.

Yup, we know in all likelihood we're talking about around $150k vs $300k x 3?... living in Coogee with half of Ireland, Irish gf very happy, Kennelly in his ear selling all this... not a hard decision for someone who may not even see another contract.

Peeps are getting very silly about this.....

I never said walsh would of stayed if he got a game i just believe he deserved one and it wouldnt have hurt the cause. Of course sydneys offer is a main reason why he left, but if he had cemented his spot at stkilda which i believe may have been a possibility if he was given a game, it could have been a different scenario. Same situation as Geelong with Mumford, Mumford left because sydney gave him a great deal but it was also because Geelong selected blake ahead of him which was a mistake. Mumford came out and said he would of stayed had he been selected. Mumford wouldnt have left if not for sydneys offer but if he was in geelongs 22 he may have stayed. Dont see why this is such a ridiculous argument. I dont think Tommy was the second coming but I do think he deserved a game.

How many games would it have taken to convince him to stay?

Do you think Watters told him he'd get games?

Sorry, but to me it is ridiculous.

Of course we wanted him, of course we intended to play him, we are the ones who brought him over and developed him, then promoted him.

I dont see what you are saying, i said i dont believe playing him would have gauranteed keeping him. Yes I do think watters told him hed get games. So if your saying his a sook then for leaving, fine his a sook but i think he deserved to play this year. We rated him as a club, we dont have to lose our talented prospects. Yes the deal from sydney was why he left, but you cant say playing him in our team this year wouldnt have helped our cause. I think he deserved to play this year, that is all im saying and that is why watters said hed play him next year. If he got games this year and then still left then fine we could purely say he took the money and ran but I believe we unfairly didnt play him and he to this stage felt hard done by. Once again if that makes him a sook, then his a sook but that doesnt mean we were right not to play him.

[70s sainter]

Everyone seems to accept salary cap pressure, and having no money left to pay up and coming players as purely a result of success etc.
But the truth is its mismanagement pure and simple.
We need another big man forward.
Walsh was shown the ropes in the backline moving him forward towards the end of the season , so coaching wise it looked the right way to go.
Then when hes prime to step up our list manager or whoever is in charge of pay says " by the way , we have no spare money to give him"
It seems a bit amatuer. Would never happen at Geelong.
Maybe hes not worth 300k, but at least if we could have offered him 200-250 it wouldnt have gone that far.
God i hope he doesnt end up being a star forward.

[Verdun66]

Everyone seems to accept salary cap pressure, and having no money left to pay up and coming players as purely a result of success etc.
But the truth is its mismanagement pure and simple.
We need another big man forward.
Walsh was shown the ropes in the backline moving him forward towards the end of the season , so coaching wise it looked the right way to go.
Then when hes prime to step up our list manager or whoever is in charge of pay says " by the way , we have no spare money to give him"
It seems a bit amatuer. Would never happen at Geelong.
Maybe hes not worth 300k, but at least if we could have offered him 200-250 it wouldnt have gone that far.
God i hope he doesnt end up being a star forward.

There has been no continuity in our list management for years. The new blokes will hopefully address that, but we are paying for the sins of the past. Not sure who you can whinge to or about on that one. All gone.

We didn't lose any guns. Imagine the outcry if Goddard had gone. At least we have our core star players, and can have a big crack in 2012. Think we can point the finger at the List blokes in a year or two, because it is not a one-year fix.

[saint patrick]

There has been no continuity in our list management for years. The new blokes will hopefully address that, but we are paying for the sins of the past. Not sure who you can whinge to or about on that one. All gone.

We didn't lose any guns. Imagine the outcry if Goddard had gone. At least we have our core star players, and can have a big crack in 2012. Think we can point the finger at the List blokes in a year or two, because it is not a one-year fix.

As always one of the voices of reason and commonsense here Verdun...you are spot on..Pelchen and Co need more than one tradeperiod to fix the problems of the last five years of lack of foresight and development..don't see that they have done much wrong during this trade period..players that many have written of may surprise given a new lease of life and new game plan ..very happy and confident that we will see improvement both individually and team wise under Watters..proof will be in the pudding

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Everyone seems to accept salary cap pressure, and having no money left to pay up and coming players as purely a result of success etc.
But the truth is its mismanagement pure and simple.
We need another big man forward.
Walsh was shown the ropes in the backline moving him forward towards the end of the season , so coaching wise it looked the right way to go.
Then when hes prime to step up our list manager or whoever is in charge of pay says " by the way , we have no spare money to give him"
It seems a bit amatuer.
Maybe hes not worth 300k, but at least if we could have offered him 200-250 it wouldnt have gone that far.
God i hope he doesnt end up being a star forward.

All this, especially the highlighted part.
And if anyone tells me that in a so-called "professional" organisation we couldn't have worked out a way to find $100K, or so, I think I'll puke. It's not like we had to find $500K. I mean surely we could have re-negotiated one or two contracts in the next week or so (before our salary cap deadline), so that they were structured differently (perhaps back-ended more), so that we could free up the required coin to fit Tommy in in the short term.
With the likes of Hayes and Milne over 30, you'd think they'll retire in a couple of years and that will then free up a lot of space in the cap. That space could have been used to pay someone like Roo his extra $50K then, instead of next year, or the one after. I doubt he'll notice the difference between $950K and a mil next year, if he's sure he'll get that $50K a couple of years down the track. Many successful teams take actual pay cuts to keep the list together, so surely delaying a portion of the payments for a couple of years, for one or two who are already loaded (rich), wouldn't have been too much to ask.
Now, after putting a couple of years into developing Tommy, we have to find ourselves another "key forward" pretty damn quickly, at a time when we're unlikely to have a high draft pick any time soon, as Kosi and Roo are starting to show their age.
This whole thing reeks of incompetence. Terribly disappointing.

[gurubob101]

Everyone seems to accept salary cap pressure, and having no money left to pay up and coming players as purely a result of success etc.
But the truth is its mismanagement pure and simple.
We need another big man forward.
Walsh was shown the ropes in the backline moving him forward towards the end of the season , so coaching wise it looked the right way to go.
Then when hes prime to step up our list manager or whoever is in charge of pay says " by the way , we have no spare money to give him"
It seems a bit amatuer. Would never happen at Geelong.
Maybe hes not worth 300k, but at least if we could have offered him 200-250 it wouldnt have gone that far.
God i hope he doesnt end up being a star forward.

We started trade week with salary cap pressure and finished the week with salary cap pressure having lost a player we were told was 'as good as a first round draft pick' when he came to us. On the plus side we picked up a couple of marginally higher draft picks and two potential small forwards. On balance I reckon this week has been a monumental fail for the St Kilda football club.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

The week started out so promisingly and then went quickly downhill from there. I had a laugh late this afternoon, though, when Pelchan, or whoever, said they were happy with how things went, although we were unhappy with the Tommy trade, as if it was just a tiny fraction of what we did for the week.
WE ONLY DID 3 THINGS! ONE OF THEM WAS TERRIBLY DISAPPOINTING!
66% positive outcomes is not a good overall result, unless mediocrity is the goal.

[stinger]

I agree with BigMart ... Serious issues with our development structure and attitude towards young players from the end of 2005 until now ... Particularly bad in the last 12 months.

Watters said he is keen to really look at boosting our development academy side of things - any coincidence?!

Something we have to get better at is the balance between nurturing young players and keeping them interested by giving them an opportunity.

Mick did it brilliantly at the Pies for about 5 years.

+1...it is as obvious as the nose on your face......but there will always be some posters in denial....

[defacto]

Everyone seems to accept salary cap pressure, and having no money left to pay up and coming players as purely a result of success etc.
But the truth is its mismanagement pure and simple.
We need another big man forward.
Walsh was shown the ropes in the backline moving him forward towards the end of the season , so coaching wise it looked the right way to go.
Then when hes prime to step up our list manager or whoever is in charge of pay says " by the way , we have no spare money to give him"
It seems a bit amatuer. Would never happen at Geelong.
Maybe hes not worth 300k, but at least if we could have offered him 200-250 it wouldnt have gone that far.
God i hope he doesnt end up being a star forward.

spot on!!!

[stinger]

"St Kilda put three years of development into acclaimed Irish recruit Tommy Walsh, then didn't play him this year in a season where he impressed at VFL level, (he kicked six goals against Collingwood's reserves at Victoria Park). He became disillusioned and has ended up at Sydney.

St Kilda's general manager of player list and legal affairs, Ameet Bains said the Walsh trade was the only lowlight of a "successful" trade week for the Saints.

"The club reluctantly engaged in discussions with the Sydney Swans on the last day of trade week when it was clear that Tommy wouldn't be returning to the Saints."

New senior coach, Scott Watters spoke to Tommy at length this morning to assure him of the opportunity for him at St Kilda which came on the back of a new contract offer and elevation to the primary list.

"The club, and no doubt Saints supporters, are disappointed but every effort was made to convince Tommy to stick around."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/a ... z1b2SxyNtS

[Thinline]

Just where was Walsh going to play next season anyway?

Seems Mac and Kosi will be rucking with Stanley the back up. They'll roll through fwd 50 as needs dictate. Other than that it seems patently obvious the direction is small and nimble so as to be effective defensively and offensively in equal measure.

Maybe it doesn't even matter whether Walsh could play or not.

Maybe an extra big lumbering relatrively one-sided bloke who can clunk a couple but who couldn't chase fat albert doesn't really have a future when a club is determined to replenish with speed and skill.

It all seems fairly obvious to me.

But then again I never really wanted to root Tom Walsh like some clearly do.