So Ben was killed again...

[The Redeemer]

If this trend continues (see 2011 - yes his sc/dt scores were big however big whoop) do we look to trade in another experienced 2nd ruck?

If supporters believe that we are still a good side we need a ruckman that wins taps and beats opposition in the hitouts. At the moment Ben is not doing this.

Thoughts?

[Junction Oval]

It's early days yet. Ben was up against probably the best ruck combination in the AFL - Nick Nat & Coxy, so let's cut him some slack on last night. However, agree that it's a big worry/risk running with just the one dedicated ruckman. Let's hope that Kosi can give adequate support, or Ben will be run into the ground by mid-year.

The problem is, Trade week doesn't start until October !

[bigcarl]

Naitanui is a freak and getting better by the game. Cox has been the best ruckman in the league. No shame in being beaten by those two.

McEvoy is a very good player and a future captain, don't worry about that. We need Stanley to come on as a ruckman and until he does I'd look at playing Kosi as a permanent follower.

All teams are going to have to find ways to combat Naitanui and Cox this season, not just us.

[defacto]

yeh i agree with bigcarl

cox is an absolute perfect form. nic nat in his first game back has shown to be in the same vein of form. cox is 30 going on 31. as the season progresses i expect cox to slow down. next year it'll be worse. the question for the eagles is if they can win a flag in the limited time he'll be around and making an impact.

nic nat is a freak but cox does take alot of the center square ruck load from him. things will be tougher for nic nat post cox.

kozi will be a good backup. but we really need stanley to step up ala nic nat. mcevoy we need to really really work on his hit outs. he'll get there.

[WinnersOnly]

STANLEY was far better in the ruck yesterday than McEvoy. I have been saying for the past 6 months that we are in huge trouble if we are relying on MvEvoy to carry our rucking stocks into the future. Our other issue is that we have no other ruckman developing on our list. SAINTS have been very poor in their development of ruckman over the years and it doesn't look like it will change in the near future !

[prwilkinson]

I thought Benny started well in the ruck but lost a bit of pep after Rooey absolutely steam rolled him on the outer wing at the end of the first quarter... plus 37 degrees is just a pain in the bum to do anything let alone chase a bit of leather around a park for 2 hours.

[SainterK]

NicNat/Cox 28 hitouts to Ben McEvoy 4

That being said, Lenny for the short time he was on, still won his fair share of clearances.

Have to agree that Ben pulled up sore after that collision, there was vision after he defended on the goal line of him wincing a good 20 minutes after.

[StNoodles]

NicNat/Cox 28 hitouts to Ben McEvoy 4

And Stanley got 9. Didn't see the game, how long did Rhys spend in the ruck?

[SainterK]

NicNat/Cox 28 hitouts to Ben McEvoy 4

And Stanley got 9. Didn't see the game, how long did Rhys spend in the ruck?

Did he?

I didn't pick up on that.

How promising.

Many saying he isn't a ruckman, but there is a spot there if he wants to mould himself into one, heaps of guys have fallen into positions over the years through a role presenting itself.

[SaintPav]

Bens performance may have had something to do with nearly being knocked out and not getting much game time after half time but lets not worry about the facts when slamming a bloke for supposedly not being up to it.

[Old Mate]

Good to see Stanley go alright in the ruck. Not sure of the circumstances but Mac's stats were poor. Hopefully he's fit and firing by round one - his ruck work has been an obvious weakness however he's still young and has plenty of improvement left.

[The Redeemer]

Bens performance may have had something to do with nearly being knocked out and not getting much game time after half time but lets not worry about the facts when slamming a bloke for supposedly not being up to it.

I never slammed him. My issue is that due to age he should not be the first ruck of a football side that probably still sees itself as top 4.

NicNat is the outlier in all ruckman developing later too.

I would like to see us trade in a ruckman anyway depending on situation/contract anyway at the end of the year as Ben McEvoy is not going to play every game forever. We need two options so we can kill opposition when their second ruck is on and run away with clearances. Look at how successful King and Gardiner were when they were on the park. Two genuine A-Grade rucks who at worst provided a contest.

We need that again.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Good to see Stanley go alright in the ruck.

That was the silver-lining to the situation. The cox/nic nat duo is going to make a lot of teams look silly this year - bit harsh to judge Big Mac against those two, especially when he took that knock early.

I generally agree though that if you want to be a top team then having a good tap ruckman is vital. Jolly made a massive difference when he joined the Pies.

[PJ]

Rhys should have been in the ruck everytime Nat contested it. Ben's a bad match up for Nat but will contribute well around the ground and should have drawn a player deep into the goal square by spending time there.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Don't discount the changed ruck rules for the nab cup letting nicnat get a free run up without body contact at throw INS makes a hard task even harder ... Plus our guys we playing for fitness and playing to avoid serious injury and manage the heat conditions WCE were all out to make the NAB cup GF

[The Redeemer]

Rhys should have been in the ruck everytime Nat contested it. Ben's a bad match up for Nat but will contribute well around the ground and should have drawn a player deep into the goal square by spending time there.

Ben's ability to 'contribute well around the ground' is saving him a bit here. He gets touches but big whoop if he gets molested at his primary position.

Kosi plays much better as a follower anyway.

[MrCordz]

Ben was subbed off for the entire 2nd half which is when Cox and Nat started to truly dominate outside a few freakish things early. Just watched the game for the second time and reckon Macca went alright - held his own round the ground and put pressure on N.N. by pushing deep into the saints forward line.
"Killed again" is a long way off the reality and if by again you are referring to the GF II, then Macca is a long way ahead of that player these days.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

NicNat/Cox 28 hitouts to Ben McEvoy 4

And Stanley got 9. Didn't see the game, how long did Rhys spend in the ruck?

Not sure, but he didn't look out of place there, at least when he was able to get a run up and jump. I think he might have gotten a couple of centre bounce hitouts against Nic Nat, but one I'm sure of he won convincingly and I'd say he got up about as high as Natanui.
Hopefully Rhys learned a lot from watching Nat up close, as he is someone he ought to look to play a bit like, using his pace and leap to advantage, like Natanui does.

[Con Gorozidis]

ruck stocks last 3 years:

out: gardner, king, gaetner, haretku, pattinson, mcgrath.
in: stanley, lever.

p.s melbourne choosing jack watts ahead of nicnat. that is funny.
Nicnat comes from planet awesome. population: 1.

[Legendary]

Ben McEvoy had the most hitouts last year of any St Kilda ruckman since Peter Everitt.

He also averaged more hitouts per game than Michael Gardiner ever did in any period of time with the Saints.

McEvoy's efforts in 2011 included 37 hitouts against Brad Ottens and 29 against Darren Jolly.


Instead of crucifying a bloke based on 1 half of a pre-season match, perhaps you should look at his outstanding form in 2011 when he carried the ruck load solo for the entire year as a 21-year old.

[asiu]

Nicnat comes from planet awesome. population: 1.

2.

[matrix]

how about we get all the ruck stats
what kozi stanley and ben get
compared to nicnat and cox

[samoht]

A few of the opposition's so called "winning" hitouts actually end up in our player's hands i.e. advantage our players - yet are still counted as "winning" taps for them. Let's call these stray winning hitouts -" hitouts to disadvantage".
There should be a stat column for them too.

If you add up a all these stray hitouts and take them away from the hitouts to advantage - it'd provide a clearer picture for each ruckman and it'll show their "real" performance.. it might even make us re-think and downrate some of these "superstar" tap ruckmen.
For instance our stray tap that went to Wanganeen who kicked a critical goal in the prelim, would have been counted as a winning tap for us, when it lost us the game. That's ridiculous and yet that's stats for you in a nutshell.
It's more about what stats miss than what they show,

[SainterK]

So we've established that Ben was killed again, this time by Roo?

[plugger66]

So we've established that Ben was killed again, this time by Roo?

No we have established that some people use one off games to finish careers and footy sides and these games are only practice.