Round 7 - St Kilda v Carlton - Discussion

[SainterK]

(Would people mind if we have a thread like this each week? It's confusing to know which thread to add things to, as there is multiple threads about team changes, margins. It would be good to have one place to have a good discussion)

Monday night fooball 14th May @ 7.10pm

Last time teams met
Rd 24 2011
St Kilda 13.8.86 def Carlton 9.12.66
Brownlow votes Simpson 3 Joey 2 Gilbert 1
Some would argue that the Carlton season was done and dusted, and this was an easy 'bruise free' encounter for the Saints who had more on the line

Saints outs since last played
McEvoy, Fisher, Ray, Gardiner, Dawson, Clarke, Schneider, Peake

Included players
Hayes, Armitage, Stanley, Siposs, Milera, Saad, Simpkin

Possible inclusions
Gwilt, Wilkes, Ledger, Cripps, Ross, Ray, Peake, Newnes

Will be a hard encounter for St Kilda in the ruck stakes if Carlton play Hampson/Kruezer, given the injury to Ben McEvoy.

An area for St Kilda to expose Carlton is still their defence. Henderson is playing well, but with Laidler going down with injury, it's looked vulnerable at times with Bower/Duigan/Thornton making up the numbers from week to week.

The Saints will also need to put more effort into shutting down the small forwards for Carlton, given Rioli proved a handfall and got under the guard of the St Kilda defence this week. Perhaps Dempster should take Betts this week, with Simpkin to take Waite?

For what it's worth, my take on how they should structure up this week, yes I know it's pretty confusing. BJ continues to play Fishers role, Gilbert to play on Judd, Roo to move to defence to play Gilberts role, Wilkes to play forward instead of Roo, Ledger into the midfield, Dal mostly forward.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

[Fazer]

Montagna as another small backpocket/half back stopper, given more licence to set up play from defence (ie Shaw from the FILTH/Swanettes) Ledger into the guts.

[SaintSimmo]

is gwilt any chance to return or does he need another game in the vfl?

[plugger66]

Jones to Murphy, Judd to play without a tag but maybe run Joey with him or Dal. Wilkes if he plays which he probably will may have to go back to help the defence. Ledger will probably come in as sub. The problem players for us will be Betts, Garlett and Yarram. We have no real pace in either the forward or backline and these guys will kill us they get the ball down quickly. We must somehow break level in the midfield which will be tough considering the ruck advantage they have and the quality of the mids. Tough game for us and we will need them not at their best and for us to play our best game of the year to have any hope.

[SainterK]

At least our opposition hasn't been whacked in the media this week, it would be nice a nice change to perhaps play a team quite content with themselves and go bang...

[The Redeemer]

Jones to Murphy, Judd to play without a tag but maybe run Joey with him or Dal. Wilkes if he plays which he probably will may have to go back to help the defence. Ledger will probably come in as sub. The problem players for us will be Betts, Garlett and Yarram. We have no real pace in either the forward or backline and these guys will kill us they get the ball down quickly. We must somehow break level in the midfield which will be tough considering the ruck advantage they have and the quality of the mids. Tough game for us and we will need them not at their best and for us to play our best game of the year to have any hope.

So will Jones get heaps of the ball again, do nothing with it and then not really tag his opponent?

[SainterK]

You can't really put a hard tag on someone like Murphy can you?

[Dr Spaceman]

At least our opposition hasn't been whacked in the media this week, it would be nice a nice change to perhaps play a team quite content with themselves and go bang...

Roos and Wallsy are probably working on their pieces as we speak

[SainterK]

At least our opposition hasn't been whacked in the media this week, it would be nice a nice change to perhaps play a team quite content with themselves and go bang...

Roos and Wallsy are probably working on their pieces as we speak

Probably

I know I listened to MMM on the way in Sat night, and they were talking about how the general vibe through the week was how overrated Cyril was, and how he hadn't lived up to the hype....I thought great, that together with people saying Hawks dogged it, they were chokers etc.

Hopefully Carlton aren't talked up as needing a statement game or anything this week.

Side note, given Carrazzo is out, is it Aaron Joseph that will likely tag Dal?

[PJ]

Jones to Murphy, Judd to play without a tag but maybe run Joey with him or Dal. Wilkes if he plays which he probably will may have to go back to help the defence. Ledger will probably come in as sub. The problem players for us will be Betts, Garlett and Yarram. We have no real pace in either the forward or backline and these guys will kill us they get the ball down quickly. We must somehow break level in the midfield which will be tough considering the ruck advantage they have and the quality of the mids. Tough game for us and we will need them not at their best and for us to play our best game of the year to have any hope.

Milera could be used in defence on one of these guys, he's got the speed and the tackling skills. Perhaps move Sipposs forward.

[jays]

Think we can win this one

[MC Gusto]

i tell you after last week two things are almost certain.
1. hawthorn arent that great and certainly are not premiership contenders based on current form
2. saints will be lucky to make the 8

sure the umpiring was awful and we got the rough end of the stick with injuries to crucial structural players...but we played at our limit for 3 quarters and were not good enough. we dont hit the clutch goals, we dont take the clutch marks and in the 4th we dropped off like a team of youngsters.

we are just not there i'm afraid. I think the boys have some belief and whilst they do we are always a chance but it will only take a couple more losses and the stuffing will be knocked out of us.

opportunity with this group is lost

[ThePunter]

Perhaps fortunate Carazzo is out...

[james rose]

i tell you after last week two things are almost certain.
1. hawthorn arent that great and certainly are not premiership contenders based on current form
2. saints will be lucky to make the 8

sure the umpiring was awful and we got the rough end of the stick with injuries to crucial structural players...but we played at our limit for 3 quarters and were not good enough. we dont hit the clutch goals, we dont take the clutch marks and in the 4th we dropped off like a team of youngsters.

we are just not there i'm afraid. I think the boys have some belief and whilst they do we are always a chance but it will only take a couple more losses and the stuffing will be knocked out of us.

opportunity with this group is lost

Not sure how this is relevant to the thread and why it was posted?

[dragit]

Perhaps fortunate Carazzo is out...

Yes, hopefully Yarran doesn't come up either…

[mad saint guy]

It seems Gwilt is still another week off a return going by VFL reports. Though Fisher's injury may see him rushed back.

I would really like to see Wilkes brought in to allow Riewoldt to play up the ground more and help as a link man coming out of defence. Blake battled against Hawthorn's ordinary rucks but I'm not sure how he'll go against Kreuzer and Hampson; we may need Kosi to ruck more next week. I can't see Watters bringing any more kids into the side for now. He's shown that he's reluctant to play Ledger and no one else has really demanded selection. It wouldn't surprise me to see Peake or Ray get another gig.

B: Dempster, Simpkin, Geary
HB: Gram, Gilbert, Goddard
C: Montagna, Hayes, Riewoldt
HF: Milera, Stanley, Saad
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Wilkes

Foll: Blake, Dal Santo, Steven
Int: Siposs, Polo, Jones, Ray

[Thinline]

I like P66s midfield suggestions. We simply haven't the stocks in the guts to be wasting one on the curtailment of Judd.

I say concede he'll get 35 and hope Dal's 30 the other way are more damaging.

[ShanghaiSaint]

if Stanley can step up in the ruck it's on, he has a decent leap. If the saint can bring the same pressure we dished out to the dogs we will have a win. That's how the bombers beat the blues, didn't give em an inch.

COME ON SAINTERS!

[Thinline]

Oh and harass that Murphy prick like there's no tomorra! Bloke's a tart.

[SainterK]

Gilbert to Judd has worked in the past, I guess defender stocks are too low....

[spert]

It should be one of those games where it's man on man- everyone is accountable. The midfield would need to hit the contest harder than they did against Hawthorn. A real problem is the lack of goals from half forwards and the midfield, and I don't see Siposs troubling any Carlton backman and I would expect Cripps to return in place of Siposs. Wilkes definately needs to come in for a bit more body strength either back or forward, as Kosi will need to go into the ruck at some stage. Maybe its time for Archer to be plonked at FF? and Kosi can roam a bit more. Milne has lost his defensive game and is just a little bit slower this year, so maybe play him off the bench and start with Saad in the pocket..just a thought

[Dave McNamara]

Jones to Murphy, Judd to play without a tag but maybe run Joey with him or Dal. Wilkes if he plays which he probably will may have to go back to help the defence. Ledger will probably come in as sub. The problem players for us will be Betts, Garlett and Yarram. We have no real pace in either the forward or backline and these guys will kill us they get the ball down quickly. We must somehow break level in the midfield which will be tough considering the ruck advantage they have and the quality of the mids. Tough game for us and we will need them not at their best and for us to play our best game of the year to have any hope.

You could be right P66, but I hope Wilkesy isn't needed down back. Everything I've seen and heard of/about him since midway last season suggests he's a forward and not a back? Blakey to go back to tighten things up instead?

Agree re their little blokes. Betts and Garlett to get Gears and Grammy. I actually like Grammy to Judd, but can see what you mean re not hard tagging Judd. But ultimately, as long as Grammy has a role that demands he be accountable, then I'm satisfied. So Garlett or Betts would be fine.

As for Yarram's run and carry outta' defence, I reckon we now have a solution... come on down Ahmed! Quick and tenacious.., I reckon Yarram might not know what hits him (figuratively - no more supensions please Ahmed.)

Hope you're also right re Lenny Jnr. And if there are still queries re his ability to play his kamakaze style for a full match, then sub would make sense to me also.

I think to win we need three improvements - none of them are any revelation. Do these/ largely achieve these and I don't care what Carltank do or don't do, we-will-win.

• 1/ Better forward pressure - enter Wilkes and Saad.
  2/ Tighten up on their free running outside receivers. Like the Dawks, I reckon they have plenty of blokes who don't like having to actually earn a kick. Give those sorta' players space and they cut you up, apply the blow torch and they melt. We need to get back to doing the latter, as most players/ teams can't cope when the going gets tough.
  3/ Miss-less-targets with our field kicking. This is currently possibly the hardest ask of our team...?

You can do this boys. Go you Saintas

[SainterK]

The task gets tougher on Monday night when the Saints take on a Carlton team that will boast Matthew Kreuzer and an in-form Shaun Hampson. But Koschitzke insisted yesterday that St Kilda would prosper.

''Blakey did the role the other night and competed really well,'' he said. ''Rhys is capable of playing on the ball as well. If we take up a little bit of that slack, I'm sure we can cover for him.''

Koschitzke said the Saints looked forward to the job. ''It's nothing we're not capable of competing against. The challenge is exciting and with Hampson and Kreuzer this week in good form, they are a good combo.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... z1uLupW75E

[Thinline]

3/ Miss-less-targets with our field kicking. This is currently possibly the hardest ask of our team...? [/list]

I watched the Suns play Freo on Sat arvo.

The Suns field kicking is usually diabolical. On Saturday it started well and stayed that way.

Players have the skill. They need the confidence of doing it well to make it work.

Mindset thing perhaps?