Freo Defensive Pressure

[jonesy]

Last night was Lyons masterpiece. A half fit freo unit to mcg for a rare victory. He is a genius results driven coach, no one can dispute it.

However freo are no 2009 stkilda, laughable suggestion.

[ROLS-LEE]

Freo looked like a better version of St Kilda in 2009 ... As much as it pains me put Goddard in that side with some decent form and they will be a real threat to the flag next year ... God I hate that !!

Yer I must say skill wise theyre better than we were in 09 - still they havent done it for a full season but round goals they make sides pay and dont have many Mqualters/Eddy's running round filling holes....

Freo are where we were in 2008 except a fair bit further along in the process of living the Lyon process then we were ...

Think @ St Kilda Ross had his "blue chip" Roo at Freo he has Pav he had his annoying small forward Milne in Freo he has the younger Ballantyne .. He had his dominant ruck in gardi at Freo the more dominant Sandi the capable back up ruck in King at Freo Griffin the up and coming ruck in McEvoy at Freo Clarke ... The reliable defender Fisher at Freo Mcpharlin .. Tagger CJ @ Freo Crowley .. The Mr fix it Blake at Freo McPhee ... The gumby decoy forward Kosi @ Freo Kepler ... The ball magnet Lenny at Freo Barlow the silky skilled Dal at Freo Fyfe and a weak but reliable whipping boy defender Dawson @ Freo Dawson ... Freo are Ross Lyons purple version of the saints except he has more speed and better users of the ball now....

Ross got us to within a kick of a flag twice it sickens me but he has the tools to go better at Freo !!! God o hate them

Unfortunately I see the same thing. I just hope it never happens.

[noob]

That's why you realise now you can't have players like kosi not putting in any defensive pressure whatsoever. It costs us when opposition stream out of our forward line. You looked last night and all Geelong's kicks out of defence were hack kicks because the enormous pressure freo forwards applied.

[spert]

I suspect Geelong started believing their own hype this week and took Freo way too lightly. I think the Crows will be a different proposition next week. Interesting to see Dawson yet again do well in a final, pity we didn't retain him on the list.

[mullet]

I hope Ross gives a big thanks to Mark Harvey, who played all the young kids for the last few games last year. Nice thinking Mark

[saintspremiers]

Last night was Lyons masterpiece. A half fit freo unit to mcg for a rare victory. He is a genius results driven coach, no one can dispute it.

However freo are no 2009 stkilda, laughable suggestion.

Let's see if they can knock off Adelaide and then give the Hawks a workout. If they make the prelims it would be a huge season for Freo an prove a lot unfortunately.

[spert]

Last night was Lyons masterpiece. A half fit freo unit to mcg for a rare victory. He is a genius results driven coach, no one can dispute it.

However freo are no 2009 stkilda, laughable suggestion.

Lyon premierships=0 and it won't change in the immediate future as he purely coaches within the confines of his "process". Will go down as a coach who got the most out of his teams, and got his teams into finals but never the ultimate prize. I would not put him in the genius class..I think Clarkson is way ahead him in all respects.

[SaintPav]

The way they played tonight they would be a 19 win side aswell it took us 3/4 of 2008 to get to the point where we were able to play the lock in style in a manner that made us dominant in 2009 Freo have picked it up quicker and have less holes in their list then we had e.g. No need for gap fillers like Mcqualter or Eddy

The game plan and style changed in 2009.

[Thinline]

The problem is he gets the teams close but the game plan is unsustainable and is and has been proven to be unsuccessful in grand finals. And he coaches for himself. I can't stand coaches that coach for their record. anyway expectation will build for Freo and like at st.kilda dreams will be shattered. It will be a pleasure to watch

Respectfully, horseshit.

He coaches to win.

It's his job. He does it brilliantly.

Quit the diet of sour grapes and deal with it.

[perfectionist]

The problem is he gets the teams close but the game plan is unsustainable and is and has been proven to be unsuccessful in grand finals. And he coaches for himself. I can't stand coaches that coach for their record. anyway expectation will build for Freo and like at st.kilda dreams will be shattered. It will be a pleasure to watch

Respectfully, horseshit.

He coaches to win.

It's his job. He does it brilliantly.

Quit the diet of sour grapes and deal with it.

Agree. I went to the game last night. It wasn't so much the defensive structure that won it for them, it was the midfield in the first quarter. They just "out got" the ball. It hardly ever went into the Geelong fifty. I can't remember seeing such a domination of Geelong. However, Freo still have too many lower level players at the moment (13, 34, 36, 38, 40 and 41). Freo's success from here on will be determined by how these players perform. Luke McPharlin is a big out for them during the finals. Rossie is easily the best strategic coach in the AFL, but we have known that for some time.

[paddy]

Freo looked like a better version of St Kilda in 2009 ... As much as it pains me put Goddard in that side with some decent form and they will be a real threat to the flag next year ... God I hate that !!

Yer I must say skill wise theyre better than we were in 09 - still they havent done it for a full season but round goals they make sides pay and dont have many Mqualters/Eddy's running round filling holes....

Freo are where we were in 2008 except a fair bit further along in the process of living the Lyon process then we were ...

Think @ St Kilda Ross had his "blue chip" Roo at Freo he has Pav he had his annoying small forward Milne in Freo he has the younger Ballantyne .. He had his dominant ruck in gardi at Freo the more dominant Sandi the capable back up ruck in King at Freo Griffin the up and coming ruck in McEvoy at Freo Clarke ... The reliable defender Fisher at Freo Mcpharlin .. Tagger CJ @ Freo Crowley .. The Mr fix it Blake at Freo McPhee ... The gumby decoy forward Kosi @ Freo Kepler ... The ball magnet Lenny at Freo Barlow the silky skilled Dal at Freo Fyfe and a weak but reliable whipping boy defender Dawson @ Freo Dawson ... Freo are Ross Lyons purple version of the saints except he has more speed and better users of the ball now....

Ross got us to within a kick of a flag twice it sickens me but he has the tools to go better at Freo !!! God o hate them

and a better bottom six.....

good luck to him, he has poven that he is a great coach, and deserves our respect and thanks

[bigcarl]

Yep, he can coach alright and Freo are going to be thereabouts for the next few years.

He had run his race at St Kilda, though.

With ageing stars and no absolutely idea of how to rebuild a list he did us a favour by moving on.

We are on the right track with Watters.

Just need to tighten up defensively a bit, hopefully with the addition of a big key defender. We were in the top 4 for points four, but only ninth for fewest points against.

If we can start well next season and get some momentum up, I see no reason we can't be thereabouts as well.

[joffaboy]

They were typically Lyon

Very Good

Say whatever you like, he prepares and coaches a team for games better tham most....

This is spot on.

All the revisionist garbage about Lyon since he left is jsut that - garbage.

Doesn't detract from the fact that he is a parasite. Waits for a team that has been developed and then waltzes in.

But tell the freo fans that is no good. Tell the Saints fans from 2008-2010 that was no good.

We suffer the consequences of this plan now - Freo will suffer in 3-4 years, but the only time you can win a flag is in the here and now.

Freo still a chance in the here and now - where are the Saints?

[ShanghaiSaint]

Freo looked like a better version of St Kilda in 2009 ... As much as it pains me put Goddard in that side with some decent form and they will be a real threat to the flag next year ... God I hate that !!

i dont think so... cats where 100 times better in 09 then now... we were a much better side in 09 then freo now. ladder backs that up.

but i agree whating freo in the 1st half last night was like watching saints game plan in 09 ... freo did get a little lose in second half something we didn't do in 09.

[joffaboy]

Yep, he can coach alright and Freo are going to be thereabouts for the next few years.

He had run his race at St Kilda, though.

With ageing stars and no absolutely idea of how to rebuild a list he did us a favour by moving on.

We are on the right track with Watters.

Also think this is correct as well.

[WellardSaint]

Just on last night's game. Freo did not appear to have anyone who was a liability, e.g. CJ poor kicking, Gilbo one-side only getting trapped on his left, Blake miskick, Kosi no second effort or recovery. But that's just my take on last night.
The Crows would have gone WTF , and all their coaches would now be watching endless repeats of last nights game until their eyes go square, to find out how the Shockers did it- and then how to stop them.
Next week will reveal whether Lyon is still a one-trick pony.
He never had a Plan B with us. He and his team will be found out.
"Travel + 6 day break cost us dearly" will be the post-match mantra.
I cant see the Crows losing, look at their ladder possie.
They show sustainability and adaptability. Learn, adapt, implement.
Freo cant win next week imho.

[Moorabbin Man]

This was amazing tonight - I just laughed when I heard Pavlich (who is a star) say at games end "as long as we give great effort......and everyone plays there role..."..........now where have I heard that before? super player and kicks goals when it counts it has to be said.

Lyons a great coach - Freo first ever big win in Melbourne and already this side has a harder,tougher edge..........gone are the soft marshmellow easy beats in Melb.

IMO we have to learn fron Freo this season and get back to introducing team defence when the opposition have the ball. I watched the Cats dismantle us at Etihad a few weeks back cause we allowed them way to much time/space whih they love to hit up targets........Freo hassled them, hurried them and they crumbled.

We are improving our scoring which has been great - but we've got to get better defensively. We've done it before so we can again and if we get that balance right we'll improve dramatically.

Spot on.

[Austinnn]

If Fremantle win a GF with Lyon I think I might just about give football away. Not because I hate either Fremantle or Lyon, but just because I can't deal with the jealousy and bitterness and hopelessness.

If they win it this year I might even cry. I think I'd prefer the Pies to win for the next 10 years straight.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I can Definatly see the crows losing next week ... The crows are over rated and used their soft draw to get in the top 4 they are very beatable the swans beat them with relentless presure Freo last night showed they can not only match the swans relentless pressure but take it up a notch then hit hard with the big firepower in the forward line !! Freo can beat the crows in South Australia I reckon quietly they would be crapping themselves in crows town at the moment there is a heap of pressure on them to succeed especially at home and with a recent history of chokeing in finals they are ripe for Freo to pick off

[joffaboy]

I can Definatly see the crows losing next week ... The crows are over rated and used their soft draw to get in the top 4 they are very beatable the swans beat them with relentless presure Freo last night showed they can not only match the swans relentless pressure but take it up a notch then hit hard with the big firepower in the forward line !! Freo can beat the crows in South Australia I reckon quietly they would be crapping themselves in crows town at the moment there is a heap of pressure on them to succeed especially at home and with a recent history of chokeing in finals they are ripe for Freo to pick off

the big minus for the Dockers is the 6 day break and travelling twice in two weeks.

Really will be difficult

[st_Trav_ofWA]

They won't win it this year .... They might get to a prelim against hawthorn but they will run out of tickets and the hawks will beat them on the way to their flag ( sound familure to us of 2008) next year if they land a jig fish like a Goddard or even a Cloke and they stay reasonably fit they will be right up to their eyeballs in the chance for the flag ... Mark my words the powers that be at Freo are going to be going all out for a flag they know now with the expansion clubs if they don't strike now then it's possible they will have to wait another generation before they get their first flag so they have spent up big getting the best finals coach they could find and will go hard after the best players they can get to pinch a flag while they still have the blue chips of Pav and Sandi .... Sucks to be us but hey those with money can buy chances like that we need to rebuild and hope a superstar to build the team around emerges in the next couple of years or we might end up like Richmond

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Sure it will be hard for them ... All finals games are hard but the crows are not that good and they would be carrying some physiological baggage of expectation into the game next week ... Freo really have nothing to lose they have the luxury of just turning up and giving it their best and try and get the win ... The crows have the stigma of straight sets exits over their heads ... Plus with Talia maybe missing ... Freo will be every chance to cause the upset

[Saints43]

jealousy and bitterness and hopelessness...

That's about all that's keeping me going at this stage.

[saintsRrising]

With ageing stars and no absolutely idea of how to rebuild a list
l

I am obviously against the masses here but in my view:

* Lyon took on a good list (better than most coaches get to start with, but some have gained better as in Scott and Buckley)), but one with some clearly obviously flaws, and signs of going backwards
* The recruiting team on his arrival was pretty dismal and was in a period of poor decision, after poor decision
* Only saving grace was that some pretty handy trading was done that addresses some flaws
* The recruiting of good kids remained dismal up until the final draft period where we finally after many years of dismal drafting of kids made overall good selections: and surprise surprise (not) Lyon was then playing new kids till most of the best got injured. Was this a coincidence? No IMO it was that just that Lyon was pretty firm in his views and if he assessed that players were not good enough, that he would rather play others that he deemed better...and this included high use of trades and rookies over the recruited kids that were by and large a poor lot.

Lyon was at the Saints in an era of poor drafting of kids. Just look at the Dees for example who have squandered ample low picks on poor choices., and who constantly made poor choices.

This hypothesis proposed by the masses that Lyon did us wrong by not playing more kids, is in my view deeply flawed by the reality that by and large that we simply had a shocking group of kid selected over many years. In my view Lyon was a hard-nosed pragmatist that picked the best available player, and who knew the value of hard-bodies and discipline. The rose-colour glasses brigade have any kid drafted as a superstar.

Romance is all very well but this simplistic notion of playing kids and all shall be right, is just nonsense.

IMO Lyon did a very good job of making the most out of a reasonable list. Not a great list. But a reasonable one.


As for not developing kids. Please detail a list of players who did not make it in the Lyon era. By and large there is simply not much there at all. The good to ok ones are still playing...and the many, many poor ones have good no where either at the Saints or elsewhere. If a kid was good enough he got a game under Lyon. Look at Allen picked for an important final against the Hawks when still very raw (though cruelly injured in the opening minutes).

Ball is the main demerit point. But even there Ball's body was not any good at the Saints....and it was noticeable that after he left that his body came good, and that he started to do more run and spread which Lyon demanded, but Ball could not deliver.....except later at the Pies.

The irony of the situation, and my speculation, is that when Pelchen was brought in above Lyon to fix our playing stocks, and recruiting, that it got Lyon offside and so fixed one problem while creating another.

I am hopeful about Watter's but he is an apprentice, while Lyon is at the top of his game.

On the plus side, if Pelchen can continue last years momentum (which was mainly good....apart from losing Zac, though the salary cap may have limited his ability to prevent him going) we may end up in overall better shape.

[older saint]

Best tactical coach in the AFL. I may be in the minority but ugly and winning is better than attractive and sometimes winning.

RL is gone though and Waters is the future, cant look back but just because RL left people should still recognise his expertise