Apparently we have reduced the offer to BJ

[Old Mate]

From bigfooty today...

BrianSpeaking said: ↑
This is a call to arms for all real Saints who want him to stay. These are facts as if 2 mins ago, he has been offered $475K per year by the Saints for 3 years, that is a $17,000 pay rise FFS.
If you are a member get these facts out in the marketplace, the reported $1.9 million dollar offer is bulls***.
Rooey also went to the Saints with a proposed 2 year contract extension, they laughed at him and said no one over 30 gets more than one year at a time.
I pay these Saints management peoples wages, as do you as fellow members, lets do something about it before its too late.
BJ was dirty when Bally left, but now know how he felt, not good!!!!!
He will take 4 years at 600 K, the club are screwing him.
What an unprofessional bunch of morons, no wonder Ross left.

How does that bloke know the finer details?

[Sobraz]

50% of our great players leave the Saints...

Normally due to the Saint and our (mis)management as opposed to the individual player desperately wanting out...

Our history is littered with losing those that define our club, and it seems to be happening again as we speak...

I don't care about $'s, length of contract, clauses, etc... It should never had come to this point, yet again...

[SainterK]

Not sure, but he often appears to

[SainterK]

Read the discussion yourselves if you like

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/b ... t-25833445

[Animal Enclosure]

Brian seems to be very well connected.

He's also added a few more posts since that last one... it's worth heading over to BigFooty to have a look for yourself;

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/b ... 01/page-56

[saintbrat]

My one query would be that-
saying ' the same stuff as Bally' is difficult to understand as it was a differant admin at that time..

[Dave McNamara]

From bigfooty today...

BrianSpeaking said: ↑
This is a call to arms for all real Saints who want him to stay. These are facts as if 2 mins ago, he has been offered $475K per year by the Saints for 3 years, that is a $17,000 pay rise FFS.
If you are a member get these facts out in the marketplace, the reported $1.9 million dollar offer is bulls***.
Rooey also went to the Saints with a proposed 2 year contract extension, they laughed at him and said no one over 30 gets more than one year at a time.
I pay these Saints management peoples wages, as do you as fellow members, lets do something about it before its too late.
BJ was dirty when Bally left, but now know how he felt, not good!!!!!
He will take 4 years at 600 K, the club are screwing him.
What an unprofessional bunch of morons, no wonder Ross left.

I do hope that the Brian who is speaking ain't Brian Wowee Taylor, and I do hope that he is correct!

BJ is nearly 27 and hasn't played to his potential, for whatever reason/s, for two full seasons. Yes he could pick up again, but objectively, the odds just have to be stacked the other way...

If we are to compete with the likes of the Skid Marks, Skunks and Puddy Tats, then it's imperative that we adopt a similar pay scale. No if's, no but's.

And if we cave-in to BJ's requests, what happens when others start reaching Free Agency status??? We won't have the space in our salary cap to meet their pay requests, so we will loose them also.

A utility who can pinch hit, but not hold down, a key position is not worth $650K plus. Didn't Beams just re-sign for ~$450K for three more years? (Can anyone confirm/deny?) Although everyone's friend Kim Duthie may disagree, Beams is playing much better than BJ...

Summary if BJ goes:
A chance to get a Caddy-type who's output wouldn't be far short of BJ's, is younger and has more upside, and would probably cost less than half of BJ's wage to the salary cap.
Free up salary cap space.
Introduce youth into an ageing list.
Not create a weight around the club's shoulders for future Free Agency negotiations.

Explain all this to BJ, so that if he goes it's amicable and win/win - we get the above, he gets more money and (maybe he thinks) a chance at a flag. Handling it all amicably and respectfully is the key IMHO!

BTW, some posters have expressed that BJ is getting ripped off at 'only' $475K. How many years worth of the average wage is that? I would assume that BJ has invested wisely (hopefully not with Ro$$y though) so should be very comfortable financially in later life.

Please St Kilda, handle things amicably and respectfully, but hold firm!


PS: Another advantage of the Girlong-style salary structure is that whilst the top blokes don't get as much as they could get elsewhere at a lower performing club, it means more money for everyone else on the list. So the kids and middle tier players are looked after better. This flows on to the club being able to have a stronger 'bottom six'... and we at St Kilda all know the upside/s of having a stronger 'bottom six'... starting with probable back-to-back premierships in 2009-10...

[Dr Spaceman]

Well my point is this.

I was told by a mate a couple of weeks ago that BJ was 100% gone. Apparently the source was someone inside the club.

From posts I've read here it seems that other people had heard similar stories.

Now 24 hours ago we hear rumours of offers being reduced.

Today its the "BrianSpeaking" revelations. 

Can all these things be true? If BJ was gone 2 weeks ago what's all this other stuff about?

Yes in a week or two's time we may find that Goddard's gone to another club. But until then I'm being very wary of what's being said. And that's regardless of how well connected the source may be, or how accurate they've been in the past.

[Old Mate]

Dave and Doc, both extremely sensible posts.

[loris]

I would assume that BJ has invested wisely (hopefully not with Ro$$y though) so should be very comfortable financially in later life.

I just hope he wouldn't have invested it in his step father's or half brother's investment schemes
.

[SainterK]

Doc, Brian has kept everyone updated the whole time, not just today...been consistent up until now that BJ was desperately trying to deal, but club was making it very hard.

[SaintPav]

So what about Scotty's comment: "we've offered BJ a very good deal"?

[SaintPav]

From bigfooty today...

BrianSpeaking said: ↑
This is a call to arms for all real Saints who want him to stay. These are facts as if 2 mins ago, he has been offered $475K per year by the Saints for 3 years, that is a $17,000 pay rise FFS.
If you are a member get these facts out in the marketplace, the reported $1.9 million dollar offer is bulls***.
Rooey also went to the Saints with a proposed 2 year contract extension, they laughed at him and said no one over 30 gets more than one year at a time.
I pay these Saints management peoples wages, as do you as fellow members, lets do something about it before its too late.
BJ was dirty when Bally left, but now know how he felt, not good!!!!!
He will take 4 years at 600 K, the club are screwing him.
What an unprofessional bunch of morons, no wonder Ross left.

I do hope that the Brian who is speaking ain't Brian Wowee Taylor, and I do hope that he is correct!

BJ is nearly 27 and hasn't played to his potential, for whatever reason/s, for two full seasons. Yes he could pick up again, but objectively, the odds just have to be stacked the other way...

If we are to compete with the likes of the Skid Marks, Skunks and Puddy Tats, then it's imperative that we adopt a similar pay scale. No if's, no but's.

And if we cave-in to BJ's requests, what happens when others start reaching Free Agency status??? We won't have the space in our salary cap to meet their pay requests, so we will loose them also.

A utility who can pinch hit, but not hold down, a key position is not worth $650K plus. Didn't Beams just re-sign for ~$450K for three more years? (Can anyone confirm/deny?) Although everyone's friend Kim Duthie may disagree, Beams is playing much better than BJ...

Summary if BJ goes:
A chance to get a Caddy-type who's output wouldn't be far short of BJ's, is younger and has more upside, and would probably cost less than half of BJ's wage to the salary cap.
Free up salary cap space.
Introduce youth into an ageing list.
Not create a weight around the club's shoulders for future Free Agency negotiations.

Explain all this to BJ, so that if he goes it's amicable and win/win - we get the above, he gets more money and (maybe he thinks) a chance at a flag. Handling it all amicably and respectfully is the key IMHO!

BTW, some posters have expressed that BJ is getting ripped off at 'only' $475K. How many years worth of the average wage is that? I would assume that BJ has invested wisely (hopefully not with Ro$$y though) so should be very comfortable financially in later life.

Please St Kilda, handle things amicably and respectfully, but hold firm!


PS: Another advantage of the Girlong-style salary structure is that whilst the top blokes don't get as much as they could get elsewhere at a lower performing club, it means more money for everyone else on the list. So the kids and middle tier players are looked after better. This flows on to the club being able to have a stronger 'bottom six'... and we at St Kilda all know the upside/s of having a stronger 'bottom six'... starting with probable back-to-back premierships in 2009-10...

Sounds great in theory but we'll take a hit in the short to medium term. I hope he stays.

[8856brother]

Am I thinking what everyone else is thinking, but too affraid to say? I think it's now pretty obvious to all and sundry bar us. We're trying to hang onto anything we can. It's going to be painful. This place will go crazy.

If it smells like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Hope I'm wrong. Happy to be.

[SaintPav]

Am I thinking what everyone else is thinking, but too affraid to say? I think it's now pretty obvious to all and sundry bar us. We're trying to hang onto anything we can. It's going to be painful. This place will go crazy.

If it smells like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Hope I'm wrong. Happy to be.

[8856brother]

Am I thinking what everyone else is thinking, but too affraid to say? I think it's now pretty obvious to all and sundry bar us. We're trying to hang onto anything we can. It's going to be painful. This place will go crazy.

If it smells like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Hope I'm wrong. Happy to be.

I knew it.

[markp]

Diabolical if true.

WTF....

[Dr Spaceman]

Most people would agree, even though none of us really have all the information, that our Salary Cap has been a problem for a while now.

What we are seeing now appears to be an attempt to get that under control going forward. So we can keep players and so we can look to pick up "good" players; players that may help us to achieve what we have so far failed to achieve.

With that there will be pain. 

If that is indeed what the club is trying to achieve then I fully support it. Just so long as the strategy is applied across the board and players are treated respectfully.

And just on that last point, it is possible to treat loyal players respectfully while still offering them a lot less than they're expecting or hoping for. There's a big difference between saying:

 "$450,000 a year and you should count yourself lucky to be getting that", or

 "$450,000 a year, take or leave it, we'd be happy to get a comp pick"

and

"We need to get our Salary Cap under control Brendon. The club has paid some ridiculous figures in the past and it's essential for its survival that we put an end to that. We really value you as a player and would love you to stay a Saint for life. Unfortunately the most we can offer is $450,000 a year for 3 years. We understand other clubs may be in a position to offer substantially more and we appreciate you need to make the best decision for you as an individual. We hope that decision will be to stay but will understand it if you elect to continue your career elsewhere"

All 3 scenarios could see BJ in opposition colours next year but at least the 3rd is treating the player with respect. 

At the end of the day respect is more than just chucking $$$ at someone.

[whiskers3614]

Am I thinking what everyone else is thinking, but too affraid to say? I think it's now pretty obvious to all and sundry bar us. We're trying to hang onto anything we can. It's going to be painful. This place will go crazy.

If it smells like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Hope I'm wrong. Happy to be.

"You will be waiting a long time for a roast duck to fly into your mouth"
-M.Malthouse

[dragit]

Im guessing that the club has just about already spent pick 13, maybe on Caddy?

I for one have been bitching and moaning constantly at the way our contracts have been handled in the past, Kosi, gram etc... Now is definitely the time to straighten everything up, stop writing up ridiculous contracts,

Riewoldt may have bled for the club, but has also been more than looked after by the club too, not sure why he would expect the club to effectively guarantee him 3 more years... A 30 year old with degenerative problems should definetly only be on one year contracts, 3 more years would be insane, no wonder they laughed.

Brendon had a super contract on the table, wanted to fish for more cash, good luck to him... I don't blame the club for finally looking towards a sustainable pay structure.

[markp]

Oh ok, it's not a f*** up.

Just like Lyon wasn't a f*** up.

But I guess we cant really accuse BJ of being selfish and greedy... (or can we?)

So it's all part of a cunning and bold plan.

That's reassuring.

Here I was thinking we may be letting a club champion walk away for the sake of an extra (fourth) year and possibly another $50k a year on a contract.

[Bardon Saint]

If the original Bigfooty post is true then I'm happy at the management of the situation. If we want a premiership winning team we need to reward our players well ($475k is nothing to sneeze at) but also have the money to afford players of a higher standard overall. From what I understand Kosi and Gram were paid considerably more than what they are worth. We've also learned from offering long contracts - Hamill. If we have a model like Geelong (from what I understand) and more evenly distribute the beans, we may afford that extra player or two who will make a difference. I like to think of it in terms of turning a Brett Peake or a Robert Eddy into a player worth $150-200k more then them because we've scraped some of the cream off the higher salaries. I think we (through the work of Pelchen) are better managing our list and cap overall but the challenge is to create a 'team' culture whereby individuals accept less is more.

[Dave McNamara]

"We need to get our Salary Cap under control Brendon. The club has paid some ridiculous figures in the past and it's essential for its survival that we put an end to that. We really value you as a player and would love you to stay a Saint for life. Unfortunately the most we can offer is $450,000 a year for 3 years. We understand other clubs may be in a position to offer substantially more and we appreciate you need to make the best decision for you as an individual. We hope that decision will be to stay but will understand it if you elect to continue your career elsewhere"

All 3 scenarios could see BJ in opposition colours next year but at least the 3rd is treating the player with respect. 

At the end of the day respect is more than just chucking $$$ at someone.

Go Doc!

I realise that the Newtown Institute of Saintology is a long way from the Seaford cafe strip, but I'd love to see you get down there to make sure these negotiations are handled in the correct manner - for all concerned!



Hi St Pav, with the huge proviso that we handle these things in the correct manner, I can't see the short or medium term pain that you fear. I'm confident of that. However, I may well be overlooking something significant???


Hi Bardon, I reckon that "...but the challenge is to create a 'team' culture whereby individuals accept less is more" is also a very important point. That shall be the second item on the good Doctor's brief.

[SainterK]

How are we like Geelong, Hawks or Pies though?

They all have premiership medallions, makes it an easier sell I would of thought.

We're either not in contention and have the money to spend, or in contention and need Brendon.

[dragit]

Oh ok, it's not a f*** up.

Just like Lyon wasn't a f*** up.

But I guess we cant really accuse BJ of being selfish and greedy... (or can we?)

So it's all part of a cunning and bold plan.

That's reassuring.

Here I was thinking we may be letting a club champion walk away for the sake of an extra (fourth) year and possibly another $50k a year on a contract.

You don't think 1.9 mil for 3 years was a good offer from the club?

Not sure what else you expect them to do, if he is going to sook and test out how much we love him by demanding an extra year then he has failed.

Beams just signed a 3 year deal worth around 1 mil and at the moment he is miles in front of BJ plus has another 7-8 years in him. Of course he could also get twice as much elsewhere too.