The Three Real Ladders

[minneapolis]

After Round 1.
------------------

The Top Ladder

These are truly significant games.
The top two play off for the flag.


Fremantle 1/1
Geelong 1/1
Collingwood 0/0
Sydney 0/0
Hawthorn 0/1
West Coast 0/1



The Middle Ladder

These are somewhat significant games.
This shows who is having a good year.
The top two play finals.

Essendon 1/1
Richmond 1/1
Western Bulldogs 1/1
North Melbourne 0/0
St Kilda 0/0
Adelaide 0/1
Brisbane 0/1
Carlton 0/1


The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 1/1
Greater Western Sydney 0/0
Gold Coast 0/0
Melbourne 0/1

[saintsRrising]

Not sure of your ladders rules....but the Saint's form is currently bottom third and not middle third.

[plugger66]

what does 0/0, 0/1 and 1/1 even mean? i am confused which isnt strange.

[minneapolis]

After Round 2.
------------------

The Top Ladder

These are truly significant games.
The top two play off for the flag.


Fremantle 1/1
Geelong 1/1
Collingwood 0/0
Sydney 0/0
Hawthorn 1/2
West Coast 0/2


The Middle Ladder

These are somewhat significant games.
This shows who is having a good year.
The top two play finals.

Richmond 2/2
Essendon 1/1
Western Bulldogs 1/1
North Melbourne 0/0
Adelaide 1/2
Carlton 0/1
St Kilda 0/1
Brisbane 0/2

The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 2/2
Greater Western Sydney 0/1
Gold Coast 0/0
Melbourne 0/1

[minneapolis]

what does 0/0, 0/1 and 1/1 even mean? i am confused which isnt strange.

Games won/games played against each other.

Its a different way of analyzing the ladder data.

Lets see if it shows true team ability as the season evolves.

[fingers]

what?

[FQF]

Are we "ahead" of Port just because of prior perception? Because last I checked they have won 100% of games played and we have won 0%.

[saintspremiers]

Are we "ahead" of Port just because of prior perception? Because last I checked they have won 100% of games played and we have won 0%.

Port have beaten two rubbish teams.

After About round 5 this sort of ladder is meaningful.

[FQF]

Sorry, but this ladder is totally skewed. The fact that the Saints are 0/1 might look better than Brisbane's 0/2 because you might think that we lost a game to a team in the higher bracket. But we lost a game to a team in the lower bracket and Brisbane have lost two games to a team in the same bracket. So there is no reason at all for us to be above them on the ladder.

[stevie]

Shouldn't Shitney be in the bottom ladder? They beat the Giants and the Suns: whoopie-f*****'-doo

[minneapolis]

Games

Richmond d Western Bulldogs
Hawthorn d Collingwood


After Round 3.
------------------

The Top Ladder

These are truly significant games.
The top two play off for the flag.


Fremantle 1/1
Geelong 1/1
Hawthorn 2/3
Sydney 0/0
Collingwood 0/1
West Coast 0/2

The Middle Ladder

These are somewhat significant games.
This shows who is having a good year.
The top two play finals.

Richmond 3/3
Essendon 1/1
Western Bulldogs 1/2
North Melbourne 0/0
Adelaide 1/2
Carlton 0/1
St Kilda 0/1
Brisbane 0/2

The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 2/2
Greater Western Sydney 0/1
Gold Coast 0/0
Melbourne 0/1

[minneapolis]

Games this week

Geelong d Sydney
Hawthorn d Freemantle
Essendon d St Kilda
Port d Gold Coast
Melbourne d GWS
Adelaide d West Bulldogs
North Melbourne d Brisbane

- 7 "real ladder" games this week

After Round 4.
------------------

The Top Ladder

These are truly significant games.
The top two play off for the flag.

Geelong 2/2
Hawthorn 3/4
Fremantle 1/2
Sydney 0/1
Collingwood 0/1
West Coast 0/2

The Middle Ladder

These are somewhat significant games.
This shows who is having a good year.
The top two play finals.

Richmond 3/3
Essendon 2/2
North Melbourne 1/1
Adelaide 2/3
Western Bulldogs 1/3
Carlton 0/1
St Kilda 0/2
Brisbane 0/3

The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 3/3
Melbourne 1/2
Gold Coast 0/1
Greater Western Sydney 0/2

[saintspremiers]

minnleapolous boy, you have St. Kilda in a tier above Port Adelaide still who are undefeated.

LOL!!!!

[felix]

Can a club move between tiers due to good form.

[plugger66]

This ladder is taking more drugs than Ben Cousins.

[amusingname]

What happens if Port win 20 games this year, is this ladder saying that they can't win the flag? (not saying they can, just this ladder is doing my head in!)

[Enrico_Misso]

minnleapolous boy, you have St. Kilda in a tier above Port Adelaide still who are undefeated.

LOL!!!!

I think that is the whole point - Port are inflated because 3 of their wins are against the perceived bottom 4 sides.

The only flaw is that the initial prejudice about who the top 6 / bottom 4 is may change as the season evolves.

But having said that, I think the top 6 still looks spot on.
Re the bottom 4 - you could reasonably argue that Port should be elevated and the Bulldogs dropped.

Other than that I think it looks reasonable and is a good way of highlighting the degree of difficulty of the draw.
It shows that Hawthorn at 3/4 have had a really difficult draw for month 1 and done very well.

Will be interesting to see how this ladder looks in 6 weeks time.
Looking forward to your updates minneapolis.

[fingers]

I still don't understand what this is.

[amusingname]

I kind of get up until this point:

The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 3/3
Melbourne 1/2
Gold Coast 0/1
Greater Western Sydney 0/2

Why do you move up in 2 years time if you are losing these games?

[minneapolis]

I kind of get up until this point:

The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 3/3
Melbourne 1/2
Gold Coast 0/1
Greater Western Sydney 0/2

Why do you move up in 2 years time if you are losing these games?

Hi Amusing ,

In the off season I was pondering how much hope every team had. In my mind all of the clubs were really in one of three groups. Those who could win the flag. Those that would win some games but not really challenge. And those that were looking beyond this year. The groups would be obvious after the season finished but I had a stab at the teams. That's footy right? The lower teams have no hope. If they loose enough games then the lower draft picks could improve them enough to move up a ladder.

Of course an exception will be quoted but I believe the original idea is solid.

Nice to talk to you.

[minneapolis]

minnleapolous boy, you have St. Kilda in a tier above Port Adelaide still who are undefeated.

LOL!!!!

I think that is the whole point - Port are inflated because 3 of their wins are against the perceived bottom 4 sides.

The only flaw is that the initial prejudice about who the top 6 / bottom 4 is may change as the season evolves.

But having said that, I think the top 6 still looks spot on.
Re the bottom 4 - you could reasonably argue that Port should be elevated and the Bulldogs dropped.

Other than that I think it looks reasonable and is a good way of highlighting the degree of difficulty of the draw.
It shows that Hawthorn at 3/4 have had a really difficult draw for month 1 and done very well.

Will be interesting to see how this ladder looks in 6 weeks time.
Looking forward to your updates minneapolis.

Hi Enrico,

thanks. Some people get it and some don't. It's just another way to look at the data.

[minneapolis]

Can a club move between tiers due to good form.

No.

It is my prediction for the team's season before it starts.

Then the ladders show its veracity.

[minneapolis]

Sorry, but this ladder is totally skewed. The fact that the Saints are 0/1 might look better than Brisbane's 0/2 because you might think that we lost a game to a team in the higher bracket. But we lost a game to a team in the lower bracket and Brisbane have lost two games to a team in the same bracket. So there is no reason at all for us to be above them on the ladder.

Hi FQF,

thanks for your comment.

It is three different ladders. The teams in the groups play each other. Like playing like.

That is the point of it all.

Hey that sounds like a book title to me.

[minneapolis]

Games this week

Gold Coast d GWS
Carlton d Adelaide

- 2 "real ladder" games this week
- not much action this week

After Round 5.
------------------

The Top Ladder

These are truly significant games.
The top two play off for the flag.

Geelong 2/2
Hawthorn 3/4
Fremantle 1/2
Sydney 0/1
Collingwood 0/1
West Coast 0/2

The Middle Ladder

These are somewhat significant games.
This shows who is having a good year.
The top two play finals.

Richmond 3/3
Essendon 2/2
North Melbourne 1/1
Adelaide 2/4
Western Bulldogs 1/3
Carlton 1/2
St Kilda 0/2
Brisbane 0/3

The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 3/3
Melbourne 1/2
Gold Coast 1/2
Greater Western Sydney 0/3

[minneapolis]

Games this week

None.

- no "real ladder" games this week
- never expected that to happen

After Round 6.
------------------

The Top Ladder

These are truly significant games.
The top two play off for the flag.

Geelong 2/2
Hawthorn 3/4
Fremantle 1/2
Sydney 0/1
Collingwood 0/1
West Coast 0/2

The Middle Ladder

These are somewhat significant games.
This shows who is having a good year.
The top two play finals.

Richmond 3/3
Essendon 2/2
North Melbourne 1/1
Adelaide 2/4
Western Bulldogs 1/3
Carlton 1/2
St Kilda 0/2
Brisbane 0/3

The Bottom Ladder

These games have no significance.
If you loose enough of these games,
in two years you may move up to
the Middle Ladder.


Port Adelaide 3/3
Melbourne 1/2
Gold Coast 1/2
Greater Western Sydney 0/3