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Toy Saint wrote:Plugger, Formula 1 racing is a business, and so is boxing and wrestling. Outcomes may be fixed.
US baseball teams, and British soccer teams are privately owned, and there is a governing body. But the governing body's charter is to ensure fairness and equality.
The AFL 'draw' is designed to maximise profit, it advantages the big drawing clubs like Essendon and Collingwood. Strategically inpotrant clubs in Perth and Sydney are important for the business of AFL. Teams like Nth Melbourne and Footscray are not treated well. This 'inequality' does not happen in US baseball or British soccer because the owners have legal rights, and are bound by the legal system.
Nth Melbourne and Footscray will never get the exclusive Anzac Day game, because the AFL is not a neutral governing body, it is a business designed to maximise revenue.
The AFL paid Plugger to move to Sydney, and the umpires stopped reporting him, pretty much the same with Barry Hall. Don't you remember they let him off when he hit Matt McGuire? The AFL was desperate for Sydney to win the flag because it is great for business.
The employees of the AFL need to understand it's business goals and behave appropriately.
Yep and everything you said is public knowledge. Cheating in a game isnt public knowledge and if true would be the biggest story in the history of the game. And i think Plugger stopped hitting players and that is why he was reported less. Umpires do not cheat. And the AFL dont tell them to cheat. And umpires dont feel the need to cheat. Happy for you to show stats where there is proof of cheating.
And if you think the soccer is equal then I am really confused. They may have an equal draw but only 5 sides can really ever win the competition out of 20. Every side can win the GF as shown by who has made the prelim over the last 5 years. Obviously baring new sides.
Humm..........you are correct.....I have no HARD evidence that umpires cheat....but there are examples where we may reasonably suspect cheating......for example Milne vs Harry O'Brien last year. The AFL have a race policy and the umpire may have formed the view that Milne breached that policy...for the remainder of the game Milne was penalised each and every time he went near the ball, and an incorrect decision ultimately cost St Kilda the 4 points.
With regard to soccer, I agree with you, only about 5 teams can win. That is because of private ownership and the power of money. I'm happy for you to argue that the AFL is a better system, and I may agree with you, but that is not my point. My point is that the AFL is motivated to grow the game, maximise TV rights and attendance, it has no charter to demonstrate equailty or fairness.
Don't think there was deliberate cheating at work with NM v WCE and I doubt very much that there is deliberate cheating at work by umpires in any games.
More likely just the home crowd factor influencing the umpires at crucial times.
The stats support that playing at Subiaco gives the Wee Girls a significant advantage when it comes to umpiring decisions.
In their 22 home games in 2011 and 2012 the frees for and against WCE at Subiaco were :
For 531. Against 399.
30% more free kicks for West Coast over those 22 games.
Toy Saint wrote:Humm..........you are correct.....I have no HARD evidence that umpires cheat....but there are examples where we may reasonably suspect cheating.......
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
st.byron wrote:Don't think there was deliberate cheating at work with NM v WCE and I doubt very much that there is deliberate cheating at work by umpires in any games.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Toy Saint wrote:Plugger, Formula 1 racing is a business, and so is boxing and wrestling. Outcomes may be fixed.
US baseball teams, and British soccer teams are privately owned, and there is a governing body. But the governing body's charter is to ensure fairness and equality.
The AFL 'draw' is designed to maximise profit, it advantages the big drawing clubs like Essendon and Collingwood. Strategically inpotrant clubs in Perth and Sydney are important for the business of AFL. Teams like Nth Melbourne and Footscray are not treated well. This 'inequality' does not happen in US baseball or British soccer because the owners have legal rights, and are bound by the legal system.
Nth Melbourne and Footscray will never get the exclusive Anzac Day game, because the AFL is not a neutral governing body, it is a business designed to maximise revenue.
The AFL paid Plugger to move to Sydney, and the umpires stopped reporting him, pretty much the same with Barry Hall. Don't you remember they let him off when he hit Matt McGuire? The AFL was desperate for Sydney to win the flag because it is great for business.
The employees of the AFL need to understand it's business goals and behave appropriately.
Maybe all umpires (AFL employees) have just figured it out...they're not stupid.
They know the AFL would rather have WA teams winning at home because it means more revenue and more memberships, but the AFL doesn't want to be seen as 'assisting' in the outcomes..............or do they?
Remember the uproar when the AFL was assigning WA based umpires at nearly all their home games?
Apparently Paul Chapman approached Andrew Demetriou this week to ask umpires to 'let the game go'. So the biggest flopping, head-throwing, diving, academy-award-winning pr!ck, who has spent an entire career playing for free kicks, actually wants less free kicks in the game.
Last night's result was affected by the umpiring, whether it was intentional or not.
Crowd noise and a certain bias or expectation about which team will or should win must psychologically play at least some sort of a part.
The AFL makes little pretence about the imperative for certain clubs to be successful on the field... particularly interstate clubs.
There may even be a preference for certain clubs to struggle and need a lifeline or reason to relocate....
It's also funny with all the talk about drugs in sport and players being put in compromising positions that could open them up to game fixing... if I was going to try fix games I wouldn't be working on the players.
But Geishcan was a dud of a footy coach... maybe it's just long past time someone else was given a go.
Because no matter why or how, norf were blatantly dudded last night.
suss wrote:Apparently Paul Chapman approached Andrew Demetriou this week to ask umpires to 'let the game go'. So the biggest flopping, head-throwing, diving, academy-award-winning pr!ck, who has spent an entire career playing for free kicks, actually wants less free kicks in the game.
Hmmm ... he must be close to retirement.
Um, I think you have Chappy mixed up with Joel Selwood
suss wrote:Apparently Paul Chapman approached Andrew Demetriou this week to ask umpires to 'let the game go'. So the biggest flopping, head-throwing, diving, academy-award-winning pr!ck, who has spent an entire career playing for free kicks, actually wants less free kicks in the game.
Hmmm ... he must be close to retirement.
Wasnt he the bloke that said the Cats were better than the Saints?
Sobraz wrote:
That's an astonishing stat... Obviously the AFL would be aware of the numbers, yet the trend continues...
I'm in the 'let the game go' brigade, and IMO they're better of missing the 70/30 ones, let alone pay the 50/50's..
Last night is perfect example of the disastrous influence it can have on an evenly balanced game..
One of the reasons I can't stand WCE, second only to Carlton, is exactly that. The huge advantage that WCE have from playing half their games in that environment. And Weagles fans, when I lived in Perth, were mostly adamant that they were hard done by in the AFL draw and should have more home games to compensate for having to travel every second week. WA is such a bloody fish bowl. They have no idea that going to games at the MCG or Etihad is nothing like going to a game at Subiaco. Many of them assume that Victorian clubs have the same advantage in Melbourne that they have in Perth and it's just not so. As a supporter group they're just intolerable with their incredibly one eyed crap. Can't stand 'em.
I must admit I cringed with those last two free kicks to WC in the final minute. It was obvious that Shuey and Selwood collapsed to 'milk' a free kick. And even with the players cheating (my opinion) a free still wasn't warranted. The in the back wasn't even 50/50 (def shouldn't warrant a free) and the high tackle wasn't even high....The umpire was blindsided and guessed. My first reaction was "how much money do the umps have on this game." As a neutral I was disgusted with the decisions.
There may be something in the push to remove Gieshen. If, following years of data showing that the home crowd effect in the west is resistant to attempts by the umpire coaches to redress, and I am presuming they are trying, then just as in the world of the clubs unsuccessful coaches get the boot. If the umpires coaches cannot help their colleagues to become resistant to the roar of the crowd then they are failing their charges and leaving them exposed to some of the zany nonsense on here and elsewhere. I do not know for sure but it is likely that just as for players there is data on individual umpires as decision makers, and it should include data on clangers, when they occur, where they occur etc. I suspect it will also show that some individuals are more likely to be influenced by the crowd than others. What I would like to know is, that presuming this is known, do they keep those away from the west?? If not, why not. And if they dont have this data why not?
the invisible and the non existent look very much alike
