can someone tell me why...

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

6621104
Club Player
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed 14 Sep 2011 8:33pm
Location: not victoria
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 76 times

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343503Post 6621104 »

As we seem to be on the wrong end of the count every game, which by the way makes corruption unlikely, answers such as it is just the rub of the green can be discounted. We would not be such obvious outliers in the free kick differential. the systematic nature of t he differential makes only a few explanations plausible. 1. We do not know how to tackle and the free kicks are there to the opposition as are those paid to us. They misss getting just as many as we do and the location of the frees should be random over the ground and proportional to the time spent forward or back. 2. There is a true bias against the saints which may be unconscious - what Explains the bias? Our jumper somehow makes it hard to see when we are held, tackled high, pushed in a marking contest etc, our game style makes us prone to giving away free kicks tho I don't know why, we just don't know how to "play" for frees. I am sure there are other explanations. The ones we can control- Tackle properly, do not scrag just because you are smaller and outmatched, kick to advantage , figure out from data over the years whether it is an optical effect ( if the differential is occurring only now the jumper is an unlikely cause), AND most importantly if it is an unconscious bias from the umpires POINT IT OUT!


the invisible and the non existent look very much alike
gringo
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12421
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 296 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343509Post gringo »

Didn't help that they called one new rule the sam Fisher rule and one the Ahmed saad rule no other players were singled out.

If you showed a terrorist video to soldiers with one racial group the ones featured it will give them a biased impression. I'm still for the umpires guaranteeing the margins.


It often happens that we are better value than we deserve and then get hammered by umpires. it was interesting in the North game that we got a few frees back and piled on the goals then the frees dried up.


User avatar
stinger
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 38126
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:06pm
Location: Australia.

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343539Post stinger »

Iceman234 wrote:Have a mate who umpired VFL and AFL - good standard umpire and reasonably well known. Has told me on numerous drinking occasions that he grew up supporting Geelong and hated Saints, pretty much we were his "Collingwood". Said it was natural that those biases were brought into games and loved every chance to crucify us.
something i hinted at in an earlier post.....


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"

However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
User avatar
stinger
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 38126
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:06pm
Location: Australia.

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343542Post stinger »

6621104 wrote:As we seem to be on the wrong end of the count every game, which by the way makes corruption unlikely, answers such as it is just the rub of the green can be discounted. We would not be such obvious outliers in the free kick differential. the systematic nature of t he differential makes only a few explanations plausible. 1. We do not know how to tackle and the free kicks are there to the opposition as are those paid to us. They misss getting just as many as we do and the location of the frees should be random over the ground and proportional to the time spent forward or back. 2. There is a true bias against the saints which may be unconscious - what Explains the bias? Our jumper somehow makes it hard to see when we are held, tackled high, pushed in a marking contest etc, our game style makes us prone to giving away free kicks tho I don't know why, we just don't know how to "play" for frees. I am sure there are other explanations. The ones we can control- Tackle properly, do not scrag just because you are smaller and outmatched, kick to advantage , figure out from data over the years whether it is an optical effect ( if the differential is occurring only now the jumper is an unlikely cause), AND most importantly if it is an unconscious bias from the umpires POINT IT OUT!
maybe...personally i go for the corrupt rather than the bias/hatred road......maybe someone put the umpires holiday funds on the saints scoring the least free kicks for the year.......on track to collect big time if that were so.......


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"

However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
User avatar
8856brother
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed 14 Sep 2011 2:58pm
Location: Twin Peaks
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343544Post 8856brother »

Iceman234 wrote:Have a mate who umpired VFL and AFL - good standard umpire and reasonably well known. Has told me on numerous drinking occasions that he grew up supporting Geelong and hated Saints, pretty much we were his "Collingwood". Said it was natural that those biases were brought into games and loved every chance to crucify us.
Thoughts Plugger? :?


_______________________________________________________________________
"Don't argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343546Post plugger66 »

joffaboy wrote:
plugger66 wrote: Yes i am saying that and yes you maybe able to bet on the frees but I doubt it. Are you actually saying umpires know how many frees they will give in a game?
If the biggest sports in the world, baseball, cricket, soccer can have corrupt officials, how can you blanket deny that umpires in Australian Rules, especially ones that are so protected and the rules intrepretations so ambigious, that they cant be corrupted? Why is Aussie Rules so different to every other sport and every other aspect of life that can easily be corrupted.

If you know anything about spot fixing, it would be easy for them to say, NOT GIVE A FREE KICK IN THE FIRST QUARTER TO ONE TEAM. Easy to do that. I am sure that may have even happened in a game recently.

Now of course I am not saying the umpires were paid off on a spot fix bet, but it would be easy for it to happen. Easier in cricket with balls and overs, but still can occur.

but hey you say it cant happen. You give absolutely no reason for WHY it couldn't happen, but apparently because you have umpired you know that it cant happen.

Well thats all the proof we all need then :roll:

All I will say JB is one thing. When did I say it cant happen? I said I doubt it which IMO is reasonable enough. Each to their own. If people want to follow a game where they think it happens then good on them. Id rather think it probably doesnt happen.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343548Post plugger66 »

8856brother wrote:
Iceman234 wrote:Have a mate who umpired VFL and AFL - good standard umpire and reasonably well known. Has told me on numerous drinking occasions that he grew up supporting Geelong and hated Saints, pretty much we were his "Collingwood". Said it was natural that those biases were brought into games and loved every chance to crucify us.
Thoughts Plugger? :?

My thoughts are if this was true then the pies would get the most free kicks every year. Cant remember one year that has happened. And why would we be hated more than any other clubs. Over my life I have known 4 AFL/ VFL umpires and have never heard anything like that. And I reckon if an umpirte showed bias to a side they would be dropped unless of cause the coaches are in on it. And that makes so much sense.


User avatar
SaintPav
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18647
Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
Location: Alma Road
Has thanked: 1544 times
Been thanked: 1900 times

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343551Post SaintPav »

8856brother wrote:
Iceman234 wrote:Have a mate who umpired VFL and AFL - good standard umpire and reasonably well known. Has told me on numerous drinking occasions that he grew up supporting Geelong and hated Saints, pretty much we were his "Collingwood". Said it was natural that those biases were brought into games and loved every chance to crucify us.
Thoughts Plugger? :?

Like in the 2009 GF when Schneider didn't get the free when he had his jumper clearly pulled but Ablett gets the same free 5 min before which ends up a goal.

Muppets like Mark Fine don't help the cause. He never wants to talk about umpiring decisions unless it goes for the Saints.

Case point: his show on Friday night after the 2010 qualifying final was all about the umpires and how he thought the free against Mooney which saved the game for us was a disgrace. I lost any respect I had for him after that show and have not listened to him since as he is a phoney.


Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343555Post plugger66 »

SaintPav wrote:
8856brother wrote:
Iceman234 wrote:Have a mate who umpired VFL and AFL - good standard umpire and reasonably well known. Has told me on numerous drinking occasions that he grew up supporting Geelong and hated Saints, pretty much we were his "Collingwood". Said it was natural that those biases were brought into games and loved every chance to crucify us.
Thoughts Plugger? :?

Like in the 2009 GF when Schneider didn't get the free when he had his jumper clearly pulled but Ablett gets the same free 5 min before which ends up a goal.

Muppets like Mark Fine don't help the cause. He never wants to talk about umpiring decisions unless it goes for the Saints.

Case point: his show on Friday night after the 2010 qualifying final was all about the umpires and how he thought the free against Mooney which saved the game for us was a disgrace. I lost any respect I had for him after that show and have not listened to him since as he is a phoney.

Finey is now an umpire and guess who he umpires with?


User avatar
SaintPav
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18647
Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
Location: Alma Road
Has thanked: 1544 times
Been thanked: 1900 times

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343556Post SaintPav »

no idea.


Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343557Post plugger66 »

SaintPav wrote:no idea.

Neither do I but I have heard him say he now umpires. Probably means he now understands how hard and how boring the topic is.


User avatar
SaintPav
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18647
Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
Location: Alma Road
Has thanked: 1544 times
Been thanked: 1900 times

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343560Post SaintPav »

plugger66 wrote:
SaintPav wrote:no idea.

Neither do I but I have heard him say he now umpires. Probably means he now understands how hard and how boring the topic is.
Yours truly?

It's boring when he says it's boring but controversial when he says its controversial and suits his show and his agenda.


I've spoken to him in real life. He's not a bad person but he loves the sound of his own voice and there's never a break in the conversation.


Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
CURLY
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9620
Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
Location: WARBURTON
Has thanked: 135 times
Been thanked: 1221 times

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343582Post CURLY »

Umpires like players want to be involved in finals and more so Grand Finals. To do this they need to create as little as controversy as possible. Upsetting a Collingwood or Essendon creates far more controversy and bad media than against StKilda its that simple.


NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
User avatar
stinger
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 38126
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:06pm
Location: Australia.

Re: can someone tell me why...

Post: # 1343633Post stinger »

CURLY wrote:Umpires like players want to be involved in finals and more so Grand Finals. To do this they need to create as little as controversy as possible. Upsetting a Collingwood or Essendon creates far more controversy and bad media than against StKilda its that simple.
makes sense to me....


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"

However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
Post Reply