Josh Saunders 11 possies and a goal in 1st half!

[BigMart]

It's not that we don't have enough mids.... We don't have enough quality young mids

Won't get them if Hayes, Dal, Joey, CJ are continually fronting up in the centre square...

Need 100 into Jack, Armo, Geary
50 into Ross, Wright, Newnes, Murdoch, Saunders
And trial Ledger, Curran
ASAP

[Richter]

Saunders and others need the experience in the heat of the battle in the seniors - not at Sandy

completely in stkfc interests fro Lenny to go round again.
Otherwise we end up developing like Melbourne with no senior players to lead.
All younger players stood up today, i wonder why?

Completely agree Mav. Saunders, Murdoch, Newnes all played well today ALONGSIDE Lenny. They need more of that sort of experience. And who is to say that next season has to be his last? Banger went on until he was 37. Lenny is only 33.

I'd rather drop Jones or Ray before Lenny if we're looking to create spots for a young mid.

[Sainter93]

Loved his effort!!

[Sainternist]

Frenchy Saunders - doing the #35 proud.

Loved that goal in the first quarter.

[plugger66]

It's not that we don't have enough mids.... We don't have enough quality young mids

Won't get them if Hayes, Dal, Joey, CJ are continually fronting up in the centre square...

Need 100 into Jack, Armo, Geary
50 into Ross, Wright, Newnes, Murdoch, Saunders
And trial Ledger, Curran
ASAP

You told us Ross and Lenny couldnt play together but that was wrong. We dont have enough quality mids. That is true so there is no point in telling Lenny to retire to give guys a go when the club know they arent quality. Lenny hasnt played for around 10 weeks but still Curran and ledger dont play so Lenny isnt stopping them. Pretty sure all others have been given games when Lenny has played. And some of those you have claimed as mids arent ready to play midfield yet. They should play HF or HB so instead of worrying about retiring Lenny worry about playing 3 small forwards who cannot rotate through the middle. And instead of retiring Lenny out of the 4 you mentioned maybe think of retiring CJ. Neither are likely to be there in 2015 anyway so which would be best for the club in 2014? Who would help the younger players?

[spert]

I'm all for Lenny going around next year for several reasons but the main one being Lenny is a special case.

But I'm really tiring of people saying we need to keep all our ageing players because we don't want to be like Melbourne.
Firstly Melbourne are s*** for a whole host of reasons . Way too many to try and list or analyse here .

But really this 'fear' is totally unfounded . There is no way we are going to suddenly find ourselves without experience next year even if we tried it is impossible.

Can I just remind you of how many old or experienced players we have on our list .

Lenny
Milney
Roo
Kosi
Nds
Joey
Fisher
Dempster
Gwilt
Gilbo
Schneider
Ray
Geary

That is 13 old or experienced players.
So the idea of us all of a sudden having no experience is crap.
Sure keep Lenny because he's Lenny and deserves another year but don't throw up this Melbourne excuse as a reason.

Let's look at our list - we have too many small fwd and mid sized defenders and not enough midfielders .

On that logic I'd keep Lenny dal and joey but I think SOME of fisher dempster gilbo Schneider and Gwilt are tradable.
Milne and kosi are retiring. Ray is just a GOP so probably neither here nor there.

Looking at that list and their contribution to this season, Roo great, Montagna good, and the rest just haven't done enough either through injury or just plain ordinary form. So really we have a 2 out of 13 pass rate with the experienced group

[SAAD]

Not that it means anything but a couple months ago heard Timmy Watson saying Saunders was going to be a player. Great endeavour yesterday.

[Dr Spaceman]

Another product of BT's "Geelong Falcons Football Factory"

[ShanghaiSaint]

It's not that we don't have enough mids.... We don't have enough quality young mids

Won't get them if Hayes, Dal, Joey, CJ are continually fronting up in the centre square...

Need 100 into Jack, Armo, Geary
50 into Ross, Wright, Newnes, Murdoch, Saunders
And trial Ledger, Curran
ASAP

You told us Ross and Lenny couldnt play together but that was wrong. We dont have enough quality mids. That is true so there is no point in telling Lenny to retire to give guys a go when the club know they arent quality. Lenny hasnt played for around 10 weeks but still Curran and ledger dont play so Lenny isnt stopping them. Pretty sure all others have been given games when Lenny has played. And some of those you have claimed as mids arent ready to play midfield yet. They should play HF or HB so instead of worrying about retiring Lenny worry about playing 3 small forwards who cannot rotate through the middle. And instead of retiring Lenny out of the 4 you mentioned maybe think of retiring CJ. Neither are likely to be there in 2015 anyway so which would be best for the club in 2014? Who would help the younger players?

P66 you're spot on.

[gringo]

Farren would be my choice of the guy to trade out. He isn't going to get anything else out of himself but is just a little messy with kicking and less adaptable than a few of the others.

[plugger66]

Farren would be my choice of the guy to trade out. He isn't going to get anything else out of himself but is just a little messy with kicking and less adaptable than a few of the others.

Sounds like a guy who we wont get anything for then.

[gringo]

Farren would be my choice of the guy to trade out. He isn't going to get anything else out of himself but is just a little messy with kicking and less adaptable than a few of the others.

Sounds like a guy who we wont get anything for then.

more saying trade him so he can extend his career not because I would expect anything but a third rounder or something. He is a contributor just not a star and isn't going to lead us any further into the future but at a club like Freo or even GWS or somewhere he would be a good bloke to play along side.

[matrix]

Future midfield rotation..love it

[saintspremiers]

Farren would be my choice of the guy to trade out. He isn't going to get anything else out of himself but is just a little messy with kicking and less adaptable than a few of the others.

Sounds like a guy who we wont get anything for then.

more saying trade him so he can extend his career not because I would expect anything but a third rounder or something. He is a contributor just not a star and isn't going to lead us any further into the future but at a club like Freo or even GWS or somewhere he would be a good bloke to play along side.

We'd be very lucky to get a third rounder for him. Agree he's no superstar but there are plenty on the chopping block before Faz. Depends how deep SW and Pelch want to cut this year. I'd keep him for 2014 and reassess season by season.

[BigMart]

Perhaps Lenny will hang around and be a part of our 2017 campaign?

[busso mick]

Perhaps Lenny will hang around and be a part of our 2017 campaign?

Banger played till he was 37, Lenny is young in comparison. Another year would surely be in the best interest of the club? But ultimately it is Lenny's call, however the press conference after the game showed Scott Watters' opinion on the matter.

[Wayne42]

Farren would be my choice of the guy to trade out. He isn't going to get anything else out of himself but is just a little messy with kicking and less adaptable than a few of the others.

Sounds like a guy who we wont get anything for then.

more saying trade him so he can extend his career not because I would expect anything but a third rounder or something. He is a contributor just not a star and isn't going to lead us any further into the future but at a club like Freo or even GWS or somewhere he would be a good bloke to play along side.

Ray is a good bloke, Siposs loves the club, how come our players don't stand out for their football ability, maybe that's why we are heading for the bottom.

The Saints have never finished lower than 16th, that may change soon.

[plugger66]

Perhaps Lenny will hang around and be a part of our 2017 campaign?

That is clearly a stupid comment. Sounds like baiting. Most want him for one more year and that is 2014. Why would you mention 3 years further unless it was designed to upset posters.

[BigMart]

There is a huge difference between the style of play of Lenny and Harves...

Robert Harvey, like his namesake Boomer... A hard running transition link midfielder, and very offensive.

Lenny Hayes, predominantly contested ball and defensive pressure.

If Lenny can sustain a high level output for the rest of 2013 and his body/mind is feeling OK then there should be a spot open for him on the senior list.

[maverick]

There is a huge difference between the style of play of Lenny and Harves...

Robert Harvey, like his namesake Boomer... A hard running transition link midfielder, and very offensive.

Lenny Hayes, predominantly contested ball and defensive pressure.

If Lenny can sustain a high level output for the rest of 2013 and his body/mind is feeling OK then there should be a spot open for him on the senior list.

How very generous.
Lenny can play mid, mid forward, defensive forward, he could tag, he is adaptable.
If Lenny says he wants to go on, there's a spot open for him.
Simple as that.

[BigMart]

It's never up to the player....

It's up to the club and its best interests, this has been a problem at StK in its history.... It's about individuals and not teams.

Mention the 90's and the thing that comes to mind.... Individual names, no successful teams...

He's a champion, no doubt. But all champions move on.... We need to think about Life after Lenny, Roo, Fisher, Dempster and others... They will not play in another final at StK... When we move them on is the only question.

It's actually that simple


BTW
When has Lenny ever played as a tagger, defensive fwd.... Or any other position other than a target mid??

I think he played HFF in 99/2000 and occasionally wing in 2001?

[maverick]

Lenny always puts the club first, that's the point.
When a player is team orientated like he is, the player gets to decide.

[BigMart]

Again,

Player never gets to make any decision.... Even if they are empowered, it's by the COACH.

The tail should never wag the dog, and players are servants of the club, not the other way around. If there is a benefit of a 34yo going around again next year, it may happen. If he is taking a position of a developing player, who needs game time... He steps aside....

Kosi is team oriented? Can he decide?
Bakes and Max were team oriented, did they decide?
Where is the line drawn? Again we are talking individuals aren't we?

[gringo]

Again,

Player never gets to make any decision.... Even if they are empowered, it's by the COACH.

The tail should never wag the dog, and players are servants of the club, not the other way around. If there is a benefit of a 34yo going around again next year, it may happen. If he is taking a position of a developing player, who needs game time... He steps aside....

Kosi is team oriented? Can he decide?
Bakes and Max were team oriented, did they decide?
Where is the line drawn? Again we are talking individuals aren't we?

There are some players bigger than the coach- I heard rumours that Harves was kept on over Ross Lyons head. Lenny would probably be allowed to play on if he wanted to even if Scott wanted him to retire.

[stinger]

we didn't have the ultimate success in 1997...but the team made the grandfinal...which is a hell of a lot better than we have done on 130 odd other occasions.....91 wasn't too bad either....

that's what comes to my mind when someone mentions the 90's.....