Lets Be Honest! Its the coaching.

[rodgerfox]

They tried desperately to deal with WCE last year for Brown and couldn't get the deal done. Let's not forget Fisher has been injured all year, Gilbert for most of the year, that's a lot of experience out of our defence.

Even the great Ross Lyon with Paul Roos as his assistant, could not win games with the defence that we currently have.

Seriously, those blaming the coach need to think back to their own careers and ask themselves how well they went when their FB left the club, their best CHB was out, arguably their best running back was out, and their only other key defender was out?

Seriously.

Watters could have brought Blake in. That might have pinched a win here or there and made his own resume look a bit better - but he didn't. He's copping one for the team and working towards the future.

Riewoldt is toast. Lenny is too. As is Milne.

So we're going to get worse before we get better.


Thosw freaking out because we get beaten, need to be realistic.

It is what it is.


We gave up two first round picks for an Irishman that never played a game, and squib from Essendon that never played a game. In addition to that, whilst we're were rolling to 19-0 we never blooded any new talent.

So now that the old guys are either gone or injured, surely no one can be surprised that we're horribly out of balance as a list.


Few complained when Lyon was coaching for the now. And those that didn't, surely can't be calling for Watters to start falling for the same mistakes and sacrificing the future for the short term satisfaction.

Especially given we have absolutely no hope of being top 4 for the at least 4-5 years.

[spert]

At this level of the game, you have to win, or be close to it if you need to attract sponsors and new members/ supporters. The club erred badly by not getting a coach with more experience- a bunch of inexperienced young players led by an inexperienced coach just spells disaster. I doubt if Watters will survive past next season and a higher profile coach will most likely be sought.

[plugger66]

I dont think we gave up a thing for the irishman. And rooy isnt toast yet. 4 weeks ago he was nearly a certain AA. he is injured. he will play next season and have a good year. lenny has had an interupted season but should be btter next year. having said that you are right, we will get worse before we get better. And you are also right about being at least 4 or 5 years for top 4 again. Im going with at least 7 or 8 so we may be having a lot of sack the coach threads in the next few years.

[3rd generation saint]

Lets not forget about confidence.
It's amazing how any team, suddenly discover their skills when they start getting some confidence.
Look at Stanley last night, he took that first grab, then took another, and even the way he attacked the ball when he got injured, that showed a player starting to get confident with his abilities. Tommy Lee is a much more confident player than he was earlier in the year, and we can see the potential that is there.
Armo and Jack are backing their abilities, and have been the shining lights for the next tier of player we have this year.
When your not confident, you tend to put more pressure on yourself, which makes you panic, which makes you make mistakes.
I must admit, I like Saunders, he gets the ball, he is going to have a break out game sometime next year, I am confident of that.

[rodgerfox]

At this level of the game, you have to win, or be close to it if you need to attract sponsors and new members/ supporters. The club erred badly by not getting a coach with more experience- a bunch of inexperienced young players led by an inexperienced coach just spells disaster. I doubt if Watters will survive past next season and a higher profile coach will most likely be sought.

With all due respect...

What absolute rubbish.


Supporters worrying about sponsors is ridiculous. I kept hearing this during the 'St Kilda school girl' thing. I heard it when players took drugs in NZ. I heard it when Milne and Montagna were investigated in 2004. Hell, I even heard it about Saad somewhere on this board last week!

It's just so naive it isn't funny.


Three things:

1) Why do supporters who follow footy give a s*** about sponsors?
2) Since when has a club never had a sponsor?
3) Who cares anyway? The AFL just prop clubs up anyway as they need 18 teams.


I for the life of me, do not understand why supporters stress themselves out over sponsors and the club's off-field welfare.

[rodgerfox]

And just to add to that, I'd be mortified if the football department even had the slightest thought in their head that they need to win games now in order to get sponsors.

[plugger66]

Its Jonny member.

[spert]

At this level of the game, you have to win, or be close to it if you need to attract sponsors and new members/ supporters. The club erred badly by not getting a coach with more experience- a bunch of inexperienced young players led by an inexperienced coach just spells disaster. I doubt if Watters will survive past next season and a higher profile coach will most likely be sought.

With all due respect...

What absolute rubbish.


Supporters worrying about sponsors is ridiculous. I kept hearing this during the 'St Kilda school girl' thing. I heard it when players took drugs in NZ. I heard it when Milne and Montagna were investigated in 2004. Hell, I even heard it about Saad somewhere on this board last week!

It's just so naive it isn't funny.


Three things:

1) Why do supporters who follow footy give a s*** about sponsors?
2) Since when has a club never had a sponsor?
3) Who cares anyway? The AFL just prop clubs up anyway as they need 18 teams.


I for the life of me, do not understand why supporters stress themselves out over sponsors and the club's off-field welfare.

With respect old chap- you do speak rot at times

[Wayne42]

SW stated in pre game interview that Saad was selected due to his form at Sandy.

I thought it was ordinary, but , i'd like Bernard to confirm, he is an expert, did you know that..

You have a lot to say about other people but dont have a lot to say about footy. You are the type of poster some other club could use of their footy forum.

Funniest thing I've ever read

[samuraisaint]

Lets be honest, our coaching sucks. Of all the coachable skills, such as getting goal side of your man, chasing and running hard forward and back, keeping possession rather than bombing long, forward pressure, kicking to an even contest rather than on on two, etc etc. These are the things that we used to do....when we had the same players....its the coaching....

Not the coach's fault.
But I agree with your point about getting goal side of your man. I have no idea how many goals they got in the square last night. So many times a defender on the goal line could have prevented that from happening. The blind bombing into the forward line straight to opposition defenders was starkly obvious last night. But it is not the same players mate. Take the likes of Fisher, Gram, Goddard, Dawson and Luke Ball out of any side, then add Gilbert, Gwilt, and in the forward line, Schneider, then replace those players with guys who have played less than ten games and you can see where the real problem lies. Guys like Raph Clarke and Blake, although not champions are also no longer there (nor is Maguire). On track for our worst season since 2000 unless we can beat one of GC or Freo, which is highly unlikely I will admit.

Add to this poor recruiting for five years which has bequeathed us with an embarrasing lack of depth and we are really up against it. I hope this academy idea takes off. The recruiters need to be extremely aggressive as Watters suggested earlier this year. Time to earn your money boys.

[samuraisaint]

At this level of the game, you have to win, or be close to it if you need to attract sponsors and new members/ supporters. The club erred badly by not getting a coach with more experience- a bunch of inexperienced young players led by an inexperienced coach just spells disaster. I doubt if Watters will survive past next season and a higher profile coach will most likely be sought.

With all due respect...

What absolute rubbish.


Supporters worrying about sponsors is ridiculous. I kept hearing this during the 'St Kilda school girl' thing. I heard it when players took drugs in NZ. I heard it when Milne and Montagna were investigated in 2004. Hell, I even heard it about Saad somewhere on this board last week!

It's just so naive it isn't funny.


Three things:

1) Why do supporters who follow footy give a s*** about sponsors?
2) Since when has a club never had a sponsor?
3) Who cares anyway? The AFL just prop clubs up anyway as they need 18 teams.


I for the life of me, do not understand why supporters stress themselves out over sponsors and the club's off-field welfare.

Blight was experienced. How good was he for the young players again? I think Thomas, Alves, Sheldon and Lyon all did pretty good jobs.

[samuraisaint]

I dont think we gave up a thing for the irishman. And rooy isnt toast yet. 4 weeks ago he was nearly a certain AA. he is injured. he will play next season and have a good year. lenny has had an interupted season but should be btter next year. having said that you are right, we will get worse before we get better. And you are also right about being at least 4 or 5 years for top 4 again. Im going with at least 7 or 8 so we may be having a lot of sack the coach threads in the next few years.

Get worse before we get better. Mmm interesting. We will only win 3 games this year and have had a few hidings. It's like 1979 all over again. On course for our worst year since 2000, which was our worst year since 86, which was our worst year since 79. All shocking years which veterans remember. I don't think we will get worse. We are in hell now. The rebuild starts yesterday.

[3rd generation saint]

Lets be honest, our coaching sucks. Of all the coachable skills, such as getting goal side of your man, chasing and running hard forward and back, keeping possession rather than bombing long, forward pressure, kicking to an even contest rather than on on two, etc etc. These are the things that we used to do....when we had the same players....its the coaching....

come up with an alternative coach before you throw s...out there

For starters

1: Nathan Bassett- Norwood Premiership coach
2: Gary Ayers - Port Melbourne Premiership coach, Geelong GF coach
3: Shaun Rehn - West Adelaide Premiership coach
4: Matthew Knights - Geelong VFL Premiership coach

Nathan Basset - untried at AFL level, no different to Watters who won premierships in the WAFL.
Gary Ayres - failed at both Geelong and Adelaide
Shaun Rehn - good ruck coach, again no different in experience as Watters
Matthew Knights - the reason Essendon tried drugs.

Hell why didn't we recruit the coach from Vermont Football Club a few years back, think they won a swag of premierships in a row and were virtually unbeatable in their league for years.
Then there's Harvs, the fairy tale, yes it would be a dream if he came back and was successful, but what if he isn't, what if doesn't get results, how many here will turn on him and demand he be sacked as an incompetent coach?

[The Fireman]

Let's be honest...we have won 3 games...Likely to stay that way.
We are about to lose our veteran champs.
we have a couple of good kids...only a couple ...who need to improve.
we are up s*** creek for at least 3 yrs and maybe..just maybe we may improve our standing and that certainly looks far from a given.
Honesty is a tough thing in footy but if you don't embrace it you will only have heartache.

I feel better already.

[Johnny Member]

Get worse before we get better. Mmm interesting. We will only win 3 games this year and have had a few hidings. It's like 1979 all over again. On course for our worst year since 2000, which was our worst year since 86, which was our worst year since 79. All shocking years which veterans remember. I don't think we will get worse. We are in hell now. The rebuild starts yesterday.

It started early last year in my opinion.

Or really, it started the moment we got rolled by the Swans in the final before Lyon left.

Infact, it probably started before that.

[perfectionist]

...In fact, it probably started before that.

1 second after the siren in GF1.

[Dis Believer]

Well something's gone seriously wrong. Just 2 years ago our structures and ability to create and win contests made us one of the most, if not the most feared team in the competition. The one no one wanted to play. Now they're lining up. Seriously, watching spuds like Hanley strolling into open goals, 20 metres in the clear, is symptomatic of what's wrong. Very little structure, very little effort, poor skills, pathetic fitness levels. Who is to blame? The players? The coaches? Both? One thing's for sure, we've fallen to unacceptably low level, with an unacceptable level of haste.

The thing that has gone seriously wrong (besides a significant injury list) is that those structures are now being executed by first and second year kids. And if you reckon Hanley is a spud, then you shouldn't be allowed on the interwebs.

Seriously, I put a couple of posts up in a thread a week or two back that showed the average games played for our team and the impact it had to take two or three veterans out of that list. We have just about the youngest list in the league, but that fact is masked by the presence of a couple of guys in their twilight. People see GWS getting flogged and go "wow, they'll be awesome once those kids get to fifty games", but expect totally different outcomes from a team that at one stage had 5 kids in it that had less than 10 games each !!

[rodgerfox]

Let's be honest...we have won 3 games...Likely to stay that way.
We are about to lose our veteran champs.
we have a couple of good kids...only a couple ...who need to improve.
we are up s*** creek for at least 3 yrs and maybe..just maybe we may improve our standing and that certainly looks far from a given.
Honesty is a tough thing in footy but if you don't embrace it you will only have heartache.

I feel better already.

Very true.

It's just reality.

[dragit]

Well something's gone seriously wrong. Just 2 years ago our structures and ability to create and win contests made us one of the most, if not the most feared team in the competition. The one no one wanted to play. Now they're lining up. Seriously, watching spuds like Hanley strolling into open goals, 20 metres in the clear, is symptomatic of what's wrong. Very little structure, very little effort, poor skills, pathetic fitness levels. Who is to blame? The players? The coaches? Both? One thing's for sure, we've fallen to unacceptably low level, with an unacceptable level of haste.

The thing that has gone seriously wrong (besides a significant injury list) is that those structures are now being executed by first and second year kids. And if you reckon Hanley is a spud, then you shouldn't be allowed on the interwebs.

Seriously, I put a couple of posts up in a thread a week or two back that showed the average games played for our team and the impact it had to take two or three veterans out of that list. We have just about the youngest list in the league, but that fact is masked by the presence of a couple of guys in their twilight. People see GWS getting flogged and go "wow, they'll be awesome once those kids get to fifty games", but expect totally different outcomes from a team that at one stage had 5 kids in it that had less than 10 games each !!

One important difference is that GWS have about 20 top 10 draft picks (including 5-6 top 3) coming through... Whereas we have... None.

[rodgerfox]

Clearly.

And that can't be controlled by the current coach.

[Junction Oval]

Coaching prowess needs to be backed up by good delivery skills, of which we collectively have none!

We also looked very tired last night in the last quarter. After a good first 3 quarters, you can expect that of Monty, Dal and Lenny, but there is clearly a maturity/fitness issue with our young guys.

[plugger66]

...In fact, it probably started before that.

1 second after the siren in GF1.

Im unsure if you mean the Geelong or Pies GF but it certainly started one second after the pies GF.

[joffaboy]

...In fact, it probably started before that.

1 second after the siren in GF1.

Thats when it started for me.

If we had have scored 1 more point all this rebuild and the risk strategy would have been worth it.

As it turned out, it didn't eventuate.

C'est la vie, it is what it is, no use complaining, it is years to recovery.

[St.Roly]

We also looked very tired last night in the last quarter. After a good first 3 quarters, you can expect that of Monty, Dal and Lenny, but there is clearly a maturity/fitness issue with our young guys.

I note that SW has been quoted post-match as saying that a "good shot" (or words to that effect) of gastro had gone through the squad in the 24-48 hrs before the game - hence the inclusion of Saad over others such as Ross.

[MC Gusto]

How many times this season when we are getting done be it by a few or by many the camera flashes to the coaches box and scotty has the phone to his ear but just looks blank...almost vacant. No talking no nothing. Doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence for game day tactics...
And although this may sound anecdotal I have seen it a number of times this season