Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371038Post Dis Believer »

plugger66 wrote:It would implode though. The VFL was going to implode before they made it national. Good players wont take pay cuts so the poor players will just not play AFL anymore when we lose clubs which would happen under a random draw which still isnt fair.
Good players wont take pay cuts hey, what, they gonna peddle their wares in another elite Aussie rules comp somewhere else are they?

What pishtosh.

The current fiasco exists because those in power say it must. And you, being an apologist, agree with them.

As far as it is possible teams should play each other an even amount of times. The approximate outcome on a long term plan to have everyone play each other an equal number of time would be that every team would only have a "return fixture" (that is play another team twice in the one season) once every three years. It's not exact, but it would mean that in 22 rounds you would play five teams twice. The following year your would play a different set of 5 teams twice, and likewise in the third year. You could lock in the remaing two teams as must plays in a fourth year with three random return fixutres to round out the sequence on a four year cycle.

On top of this make it home/away on a rotational basis. Instead we get certain teams locked in to return fixtures every year, with certain games locked into certain rounds and even home/away status locked in on some games. Bulltish. Scrap that and go to an equitable rotating draw as much as we can. If I play you once this year and it's at home for me, next year it's at home for you.

At one stage we hadn't played Port in Victoria for about four seasons. At one stage, the Pies didn't leave Victoria for 22 consecutive home & away rounds (was it 2011/2012 or 2010/2011). Anyway, it's bulltish. It's almost drawn up now like a fight card for a night at the WWE. We constantly saw some Vic teams travelling interstate six times a year and the Pies doing it 3 or 4 times a year. That is NOT equitable. All it does in make systemic the probblems that some clubs face.

How can a club permanently stuck in the graveyard PayTV slot of 4:40pm Sunday ever expect to attract the sponsorship of someone like a Collingwood , who are locked in to a day game at the G on Anzac Day and just about every game on Free to air?

And to make the comment "we need to get better to get more Friday nights", what exactly do you think will be the reduction in primetime TV exposure for Collingwood when they fall in a hole on field? Don't deny me access to the fishing grounds and give me a handout of a bucket of fish to keep me going, give me equal rights to the fishing grounds to let me fend for myself.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371047Post Life Long Saint »

dragit wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Seems very fair on North. But who cares about them. lets swap North and the saints and then see how fair people think it is.
Yes I actually laughed out loud…

It's not the worst format I have seen, but it would need only 9 victorian teams to work… easily arranged, send essendon to tassie…

also, not sure about literal divisions… the draw could be set out that way, but they should all play on the same ladder… otherwise you end with inferior sides playing finals… richmond would miss out for wce this year - they are 4 wins apart at the moment.
Easy fixed...

Ditch the whole final 8 concept.
Have a play off in each conference with only the top 2 going through.
Fair chance they'd be worth of a GF shot.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371053Post dragit »

Life Long Saint wrote:
dragit wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Seems very fair on North. But who cares about them. lets swap North and the saints and then see how fair people think it is.
Yes I actually laughed out loud…

It's not the worst format I have seen, but it would need only 9 victorian teams to work… easily arranged, send essendon to tassie…

also, not sure about literal divisions… the draw could be set out that way, but they should all play on the same ladder… otherwise you end with inferior sides playing finals… richmond would miss out for wce this year - they are 4 wins apart at the moment.
Easy fixed...

Ditch the whole final 8 concept.
Have a play off in each conference with only the top 2 going through.
Fair chance they'd be worth of a GF shot.
What if the best 6-8 sides are in one division…?
Sorry, no deal from me on divisions, though I don't mind the draw concept…


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371054Post plugger66 »

True Believer wrote:
plugger66 wrote:It would implode though. The VFL was going to implode before they made it national. Good players wont take pay cuts so the poor players will just not play AFL anymore when we lose clubs which would happen under a random draw which still isnt fair.
Good players wont take pay cuts hey, what, they gonna peddle their wares in another elite Aussie rules comp somewhere else are they?

What pishtosh.

The current fiasco exists because those in power say it must. And you, being an apologist, agree with them.

As far as it is possible teams should play each other an even amount of times. The approximate outcome on a long term plan to have everyone play each other an equal number of time would be that every team would only have a "return fixture" (that is play another team twice in the one season) once every three years. It's not exact, but it would mean that in 22 rounds you would play five teams twice. The following year your would play a different set of 5 teams twice, and likewise in the third year. You could lock in the remaing two teams as must plays in a fourth year with three random return fixutres to round out the sequence on a four year cycle.

On top of this make it home/away on a rotational basis. Instead we get certain teams locked in to return fixtures every year, with certain games locked into certain rounds and even home/away status locked in on some games. Bulltish. Scrap that and go to an equitable rotating draw as much as we can. If I play you once this year and it's at home for me, next year it's at home for you.

At one stage we hadn't played Port in Victoria for about four seasons. At one stage, the Pies didn't leave Victoria for 22 consecutive home & away rounds (was it 2011/2012 or 2010/2011). Anyway, it's bulltish. It's almost drawn up now like a fight card for a night at the WWE. We constantly saw some Vic teams travelling interstate six times a year and the Pies doing it 3 or 4 times a year. That is NOT equitable. All it does in make systemic the probblems that some clubs face.

How can a club permanently stuck in the graveyard PayTV slot of 4:40pm Sunday ever expect to attract the sponsorship of someone like a Collingwood , who are locked in to a day game at the G on Anzac Day and just about every game on Free to air?

And to make the comment "we need to get better to get more Friday nights", what exactly do you think will be the reduction in primetime TV exposure for Collingwood when they fall in a hole on field? Don't deny me access to the fishing grounds and give me a handout of a bucket of fish to keep me going, give me equal rights to the fishing grounds to let me fend for myself.

Seriously do you really think what you actually write. The pies are the biggest club in Australia and it doesnt matter how good or bad they are going they still rate and still get huge crowds to games so they would still get friday night. We dont have any of that luxury so we need to be a top side to get the big time slots. the same as North, melbourne and the WB. That is just how it is. We were given good time slots when we were a top side yet still never got 40K members. Thats the facts.

And yes obviously players cant go and play footy in another comp but if the AFL are seen to pay less to players in the future the AFL wont be the game that all the young kids want to become the best at. Yep many will still play it but more and more will play soccer. Its short term thinking to actually think a drop in players wages would have no effect.

And how is it fair that sides play each other at least twice every 3 or 4 years. last year you could play Adelaide and this year you dont get them twice. In 3 years most sides are no where near where they were at the start of the 4 year cycle. And the 2 sides in each state must play each other twice. You must have derbies to grow the game. The draw is still uneven but what is worse is clubs will fold. if people cant see that then I am amazed at their thinking.

You know why I am an apologist for the AFL. Its because I currently like the AFL wanting to keep every side in the competition. Yes many want AD to go but nothing will change if he goes. Well actually one thing could. The next in charge may decide 18 sides is to many and we maybe the one in the gun.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371056Post stevie »

We haven't played the Lions in Melbourne since Round 9 2009


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371107Post st.byron »

dragit wrote:...........
At some stage you have to forgo some revenue for the integrity of the competition. Hopefully in the end you build 18 healthy, viable teams, not a handful that fight over crusts from the force-fed obese…

Not going to happen I reckon Dragit. They'll never forego any revenue. It's their primary interest. And it's not just an AFL problem. Cricket Australia are also run by lying corporate spin meisters who's dominant objective is the mighty dollar and TV rights, whatever the impact on the quality of our teams. And of course the players pay has also increased hugely so they're not going to complain. Turns out the Packer revolution in 70's cricket was the beginning of TV dominating our major sports and it's developed so much that now we have Channel 9 trying to dictate team selection. With footy and cricket there's no going back......the TV dollar is God.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371115Post starsign »

mr six o'clock wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Seems very fair on North. But who cares about them. lets swap North and the saints and then see how fair people think it is.
Using this system , geelong should be in the other group as they are not part of metro area !
How about until we get one relocating to Tas or even heaven forbid one in NZ that Vic team rotates each year or better still the highest finishing one goes into the other group the following season


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371118Post St Plugger »

I think its on the money with conferences or whatever term is used. The AFL has been working toward this for a while now.

By having 2 teams from each non Vic State, you can structure up conferences.

IE Each Group has half of the Vic clubs plus ONE of each from W.A., S.A. Qld and NSW.

So you could have for example.

Group 1
Melb
Carl
Geel
Ess
Nth
WC
PA
GWS
Bris

Group 2
Coll
Haw
Rich
St K
W B
Freo
Adel
Syd
GC

The odd No of teams give the players a bye.

Finals can then be played across the 2 groups like suggested above or a final 4 format with the 2 winners of each group playing off in the Grand Final similar to the US Superbowl.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371120Post plugger66 »

St Plugger wrote:I think its on the money with conferences or whatever term is used. The AFL has been working toward this for a while now.

By having 2 teams from each non Vic State, you can structure up conferences.

IE Each Group has half of the Vic clubs plus ONE of each from W.A., S.A. Qld and NSW.

So you could have for example.

Group 1
Melb
Carl
Geel
Ess
Nth
WC
PA
GWS
Bris

Group 2
Coll
Haw
Rich
St K
W B
Freo
Adel
Syd
GC

The odd No of teams give the players a bye.

Finals can then be played across the 2 groups like suggested above or a final 4 format with the 2 winners of each group playing off in the Grand Final similar to the US Superbowl.

They will never split up sides from the same states.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371131Post BigMart »

Memberships..... Stats on that are rubbish....

Counting 3 game memberships, country memberships, memberships given away to reach 50 000 as was the case for one club this year, so they could publish/advertise big numbers... A clever but bulls*** strategy


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371137Post plugger66 »

BigMart wrote:Memberships..... Stats on that are rubbish....

Counting 3 game memberships, country memberships, memberships given away to reach 50 000 as was the case for one club this year, so they could publish/advertise big numbers... A clever but bulls*** strategy

Every club has those types so it matters little if they count or not. Its basic maths.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371145Post 3rd generation saint »

Yes I can just see WCE, Fremantle, Adelaide, Port Adelaide and Sydney supporters throwing away their memberships because they will only play the other team in their city twice.
How did WCE and Adelaide survive before those clubs existed, hell Sydney weren't keen on GWS entering the comp because they felt it might take some of their supporters.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371147Post plugger66 »

3rd generation saint wrote:Yes I can just see WCE, Fremantle, Adelaide, Port Adelaide and Sydney supporters throwing away their memberships because they will only play the other team in their city twice.
How did WCE and Adelaide survive before those clubs existed, hell Sydney weren't keen on GWS entering the comp because they felt it might take some of their supporters.
That has nothing to do with it. No one will throw away memberships from those clubs but will many more buy them who follow GWS or GC. No i doubt it. Why do you think the A league want 2 sides in melbourne? To hopefully grow the game and that is the reason they need to games in the developing states. And they will always have the derbies in WA and SA.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371206Post Cairnsman »

I think more boutique grounds like Geelong's and GCS's would provide a balance. You can have your block busters at the mega stadiums and the clubs that draw the smaller crowds can play at grounds that create a more intimate experience. Best of both worlds.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371274Post dragit »

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/e ... 6691645749
Safe to say the AFL know very well they aren't doing enough to bridge a fast widening gap… pity they didn't get onto this 5-10 years ago.


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Re: Loyalty at breaking point - The Age

Post: # 1371439Post GoSaintersGo »

The OtherThommo wrote:There as an article published last week about a big drop in MCG profit. The analysis was a bit murky, but AFL crowd size was deemed a significant contributor to the fall.
The "Powerbrokers", the Toorak Group, have just been to the US to see if there are other ways they can increase their ownership of the game via Collingwood, Essendon (they might have to take a back seat for a year or two), Carlton, maybe Richmond, West Coast, Adelaide, Hawthorn, Bulldogs (Peter Gordon latching on), Geelong and maybe Sydney - maybe they are the "inner sanctum".
Our financial future together with the Dees, Kangas, Brisbane, Freo (tho they are independently strong), Port, Gold Coast and GWS will be dictated to by the AFL and the " inner sanctum "because there is no way the "inner Sanctum" clubs will relinquish their favoured positions, Block Busters, prime time TV games etc at our expense - we will be expected to continue to pick up the bits and pieces.


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