Our 15 Veterans in 2014

[SaintPav]

Fisher was a very good defender under Lyon.
He took on the #1 forward who was usually taller,

Fisher did not take the no 1 forward under Lyon. That was usually left to Max or Zac.

Lyon would usually free up Fisher which would help us launch attacks. It was part of our winning game plan.

[Con Gorozidis]

[q


We need to stop making decisions based on 2009.

There is a myth about Melbourne getting rid of experienced players leading to them being no good - which is a complete nonsense. It never actually happened.
And noone wants to talk about Port who are doing bloody well without any experienced players.
We need to look fwd and not back.

[Con Gorozidis]

No 2009 fantasies of how good certain people used to be.

But I dont know how good Fisher, Schneider and Gwilt would be, hardly saw any of them this year.

How could you get rid of them or want to?

The game at Geelong would be a weekly occurance under your destruction.

You didnt see Schneider or Fisher because their bodies are no longer capable of playing AFL footy.

If the game v Geelong is where we are at - then thats where we are it. Young teams have some big losses from time to time. Thats how it is. Suck it up.
Better to know where we are than live in a fantasy. Our older players didnt help much that day did they. 2 years ago port were getting flogged and look at em now. Why? Because they understood where they were and rebuilt form the ground up.

It seems people are actually making up myths to keep older players for their own comfort. e.g the Melbourne myth.

The other classic myth doing the rounds is that we can 'do a Sydney' and not rebuild.

[plugger66]

No 2009 fantasies of how good certain people used to be.

But I dont know how good Fisher, Schneider and Gwilt would be, hardly saw any of them this year.

How could you get rid of them or want to?

The game at Geelong would be a weekly occurance under your destruction.

You didnt see Schneider or Fisher because their bodies are no longer capable of playing AFL footy.

If the game v Geelong is where we are at - then thats where we are it. Young teams have some big losses from time to time. Thats how it is. Suck it up.
Better to know where we are than live in a fantasy. Our older players didnt help much that day did they. 2 years ago port were getting flogged and look at em now. Why? Because they understood where they were and rebuilt form the ground up.

It seems people are actually making up myths to keep older players for their own comfort. e.g the Melbourne myth.

The other classic myth doing the rounds is that we can 'do a Sydney' and not rebuild.

Fisher has had one bad year injury wise. When you get on a topic you go for it but we all know you will get bored. wasnt Ferguson going to be a superstar?

[dragit]

It seems people are actually making up myths to keep older players for their own comfort. e.g the Melbourne myth.

The other classic myth doing the rounds is that we can 'do a Sydney' and not rebuild.

But Con, what if Blake & Kosi get back to their very best… hey? You haven't thought of that…

If CJ's kicking continues to improve, he should be ripe for a brownlow in 2018.

Memo to everybody: we are very close to being as bad as Melbourne already, with a single win more… playing older guys will not improve us… believe it or not, Melbourne are probably closer to rising up the ladder than us… Hogan, Watts, Toumpas, Viney, Trengrove, Frawley, Clarke, Howe… they could form a very good side in the not too distant future.

[plugger66]

It seems people are actually making up myths to keep older players for their own comfort. e.g the Melbourne myth.

The other classic myth doing the rounds is that we can 'do a Sydney' and not rebuild.

But Con, what if Blake & Kosi get back to their very best… hey? You haven't thought of that…

If CJ's kicking continues to improve, he should be ripe for a brownlow in 2018.

Memo to everybody: we are very close to being as bad as Melbourne already, with a single win more… playing older guys will not improve us… believe it or not, Melbourne are probably closer to rising up the ladder than us… Hogan, Watts, Toumpas, Viney, Trengrove, Frawley, Clarke, Howe… they could form a very good side in the not too distant future.

I beleive and posted it about 6 weeks ago but that doesnt mean we need to get rid of the likes of Fisher. Happy for Kosi, Blake, CJ and Milney to go but that is where it should stop this year. Then next year 3 or 4 more can go and the following year pretty much the rest of the over 30's. There is no point getting rid of to many. We need to pay the salary cap for a start and pick 130 wont get it done.

[Con Gorozidis]

Fisher has had one bad year injury wise. When you get on a topic you go for it but we all know you will get bored. wasnt Ferguson going to be a superstar?

I said all along Ferg was worth a look at it - and I sure as heck arent going to sell him out based on a first game where the other side had about 30 inside 50s in the first quarter! Id give players 5 games to make any decision! And I want Shenton to get a game or 5 as well while im at it.

Churn and learn. Churn and learn. Thats my philosophy and I am more than happy to stick by it. Some youngsters will sink and some will swim - we need to know which ones are which.

We learn nothing by playing guys who are past it just to what - lose by a bit less?
Its pathetic.

So yeah - If we play kids and occasionally get flogged Ill suck it up and keep supporting the side and looking to learn more while looking forward.
I wont be stuck in the past hoping some old blokes recovers from a 3 years injury and we all get in a time machine and head back to 2009 - because that aint happening.

So slag me all you like plugger - But your 'back to the future' ideas arent going to fly.
If we have to go back to go fwd - I can take it! It seems some dont have the balls to confront the ugly truth!

When you are in a rebuild - you need to churn through a lot of players to find out who is in and who is out. By slowing that process we are just slowing down getting a new side together.

Specifically in regards Sam - Id need to know the true medical situation - if we truly believe his body is capable of returning to normal - then thats cool but if not then thats footy. We cant become a MASH unit for old veterans.

[plugger66]

Fisher has had one bad year injury wise. When you get on a topic you go for it but we all know you will get bored. wasnt Ferguson going to be a superstar?

I said all along Ferg was worth a look at it - and I sure as heck arent going to sell him out based on a first game where the other side had about 30 inside 50s in the first quarter! Id give players 5 games to make any decision! And I want Shenton to get a game or 5 as well while im at it.

Churn and learn. Churn and learn. Thats my philosophy and I am more than happy to stick by it. Some youngsters will sink and some will swim - we need to know which ones are which.

We learn nothing by playing guys who are past it just to what - lose by a bit less?
Its pathetic.

So yeah - If we play kids and occasionally get flogged Ill suck it up and keep supporting the side and looking to learn more while looking forward.
I wont be stuck in the past hoping some old blokes recovers from a 3 years injury and we all get in a time machine and head back to 2009 - because that aint happening.

So slag me all you like plugger - But your 'back to the future' ideas arent going to fly.
If we have to go back to go fwd - I can take it! It seems some dont have the balls to confront the ugly truth!

When you are in a rebuild - you need to churn through a lot of players to find out who is in and who is out. By slowing that process we are just slowing down getting a new side together.

Con the thing is you never have thought like this until about 4 weeks ago. You talk as if this has always been your thinking but it hasnt. For some reason it has just come into your head. We are on the rebuild but you can only have so many picks in the draft and you must pay 95% of the salary cap Con.

And tell me this. What are my back to the future ideas. Wanting to keep Fisher. Wow. Thats real back to the future stuff.

[dragit]

you on the angry peptides today con?

[Con Gorozidis]

you on the angry peptides today con?

Sorry I have gone a bit overboard!

I hate Mondays

[dragit]

you on the angry peptides today con?

Sorry I have gone a bit overboard!

I hate Mondays

it's alright mate, I'm enjoying it.

churn & learn… that's my new motto

[Con Gorozidis]

Con the thing is you never have thought like this until about 4 weeks ago. You talk as if this has always been your thinking but it hasnt. For some reason it has just come into your head. We are on the rebuild but you can only have so many picks in the draft and you must pay 95% of the salary cap Con.

And tell me this. What are my back to the future ideas. Wanting to keep Fisher. Wow. Thats real back to the future stuff.

I agree - the salary cap is a fair point to consider - and one i haven't fully ruled in to my rant.

I think that is possibly the reason that put the Dees in their 'trap'.
People have said it is the lack of experience and getting rid of experience (which didnt really ever happen) but if you look at the Aussie cricket team - I think there is a big issue when young players get paid big coin before they have every done anything. With the 95% rule - I think this is really a big danger and one that is present at Melbourne. You get all sorts of hacks and kids getting paid well above what they deserve. So - thats a trap I dont want us to fall in.

But keeping up the 'churn' should minimise risk of this. I think one thing Melbourne did wrong was that their 'internal' view of players was completely warped. They thought some of their players were way better than they really were.

[Con Gorozidis]

The main point is we should more blokes in the 23-28 category but we dont.
That is the real story and the one that has us in this awkward situation.

[borderbarry]

It is not only a few of our veterans that will be in danger of getting moved in on this year. Decisions will have to made on Lever, Ledger and anyone else on the senior list who has not been able to get a game in the side this year. Also al of our rookies have had two years at least. We did not introduce a rookie at the last draft. We need to this year.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Hayes, Lenny - I would like him to stay but I think he's gone.
Milne, Stephen - Gone.
Blake, Jason - Gone.
Fisher, Sam - Stay until the end of 2015
Koschitzke, Justin - Gone.
Riewoldt, Nick - stay until the end of 2015
Montagna, Leigh - Stay for as long as possible.
Dempster, Sean - Stay until the end of 14'
Jones, Clinton - Stay until the end of 14'
Dal Santo, Nick - Stay for as long as possible.
Schneider, Adam - Stay for 14' if his body is right now (finally)
Maister, Beau - Stay for 14' if we can't nab a defender in the off-season.
Ray, Farren - Gone (I think he'll request to be traded again)
Gwilt, James - Stay
Gilbert, Sam - Stay

[Saint wagga]

Not sure if Maister is contracted for next year, but I'd be moving him on. Lee has shown more than enough to warrant a genuine first crack for as much of next season as health permits. Likewise for Stanley up forward. I see these guys as our next forward combo once rooey retires. Throw in Siposs, markworth, spencer white and the resting ruckman and I really think that there is enough kp forward depth there, keeping in mind the youth focus...he would be a list block to development. We've got 3 rucks on the list, and Maister can't play defence, so I think we should let him go. Been serviceable and unlucky this year with injury, but IMO that would be best for the list...thoughts?

[saint6709]

Not sure if Maister is contracted for next year, but I'd be moving him on. Lee has shown more than enough to warrant a genuine first crack for as much of next season as health permits. Likewise for Stanley up forward. I see these guys as our next forward combo once rooey retires. Throw in Siposs, markworth, spencer white and the resting ruckman and I really think that there is enough kp forward depth there, keeping in mind the youth focus...he would be a list block to development. We've got 3 rucks on the list, and Maister can't play defence, so I think we should let him go. Been serviceable and unlucky this year with injury, but IMO that would be best for the list...thoughts?

Agree big Beau can go