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Con Gorozidis wrote:Hawks also picked up max bailey in that 2005 draft.
Also playing right now.
Of course we need to keep some senior mature players.
The question is how many ?
I reckon ideally you need 4 good senior players as a minimum. Every year.
So you could say in 2014 it's Lenny, Roo, Joey and Dempster
What about 2015 ? .. Lenny will be gone and possibly Roo. So maybe you still need Dal to fill that hole.
Then 2016 is probably the last year for the remaining champs.
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
Con Gorozidis wrote:Hawks also picked up max bailey in that 2005 draft.
Also playing right now.
Of course we need to keep some senior mature players.
The question is how many ?
The question isn't just "how many" it's also who??
We need to grow kids also and not be a Melbourne basket case - we also aren't blessed with super foot skills and Dal offers both
Con Gorozidis wrote:Hawks also picked up max bailey in that 2005 draft.
Also playing right now.
Of course we need to keep some senior mature players.
The question is how many ?
I reckon ideally you need 4 good senior players as a minimum. Every year.
So you could say in 2014 it's Lenny, Roo, Joey and Dempster
What about 2015 ? .. Lenny will be gone and possibly Roo. So maybe you still need Dal to fill that hole.
Then 2016 is probably the last year for the remaining champs.
Ok but in 2015 we will have veterans like Ray Gilbert Schneider and Gwilt as well.
I'm more than happy to keep dal but we need to keep our ears open for a trade because most of all we need more good young players and they don't come in cabbage patches or get delivered by storks.
We need to either finish last or trade to get them
Most people don't want to do either of those things.
So for all the keep dal or I'm quitting the club crew like stinger - that's all well and good but tell me your plan to get new good young players ? How do you plan to win new young fans and sponsors back to our club ?
You all whinge but you are silent on that issue.
Would you trade your grandmother? -- No.
There are some players at a club that keep the character and continuity of the 'family' as it is.
No one ever talked of trading Harvey, or Lenny -- so I think everyone, even the hardened 'realists', has to subscribe to this concept.
Dal and Joey, for me, are definitely in this 'club champion' category, and should not be traded. We shouldn't even think about trading them. They're the family silver, and I don't care -- we shouldn't sell them.
It's a fuzzy line, I agree.
Fisher, who's won a club B+F, I don't find so unacceptable as trade bait.
Better be a good return though.
I don't want to barrack for a club whose character and continuity have been completely reduced to the market.
Fisher and McEvoy are my preferred trades. We can lose Fisher and replace him with 2 KPDs and although not a perfect scenario we have Stanley and Hickey for the ruck. Dal IMO is needed in the centre our weak spot along with KPD. Although my gut tells me Dal is gone.
I'm not convinced about the character flaws argument against Fisher when it comes to trading out just the fact that we have more cover in his position.
Out of interest does TDL currently have a contract?
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
avid wrote:Dal and Joey, for me, are definitely in this 'club champion' category, and should not be traded. We shouldn't even think about trading them. They're the family silver, and I don't care -- we shouldn't sell them.
I agree. Strength through loyalty anyone?
One minute we're all saying how great the Kosi/Blake/Milne send off was, next minute the remaining players are listed on ebay.
Well we can keep the old guys and slowly build up the list but you'd better rejig the date to be competing for a flag to be around 2022. In the mean time we can have lots of send off games at the end of the season whilst sitting on the bottom of the ladder.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
PJ wrote:Well we can keep the old guys and slowly build up the list but you'd better rejig the date to be competing for a flag to be around 2022. In the mean time we can have lots of send off games at the end of the season whilst sitting on the bottom of the ladder.
2022 isn't that far away.
I understand the need to get quality players in, but I am concerned we will create an environment where players are mercenaries, rather than playing for the club. They are all professionals, but I feel there is still some pride in the jumper, and camaraderie.
If we sell Dal, does that mean that in 5 years time Jack Steven will be looking to leave (at his peak) because he knows we will cut him in a couple more years?
Agree totally on the few posts above - can't keep selling the family jewels (NDS in this case).....we need skill while retaining some experience and he provides both.
Fisher as mentioned can be covered with what we have or can garnish from trades and will be superseeded by the end of 2014 anyway.
What we really need to do is make sure our selections in this years and next years draft are spot on and soup up the development of those currently at the club'and who will be incoming
in the next 14 months.
It's a tricky one and part of the new world order unfortunately. I actually don't think we need to trade Dal unless we are going to get a top 20 pick. He is, as you said, pretty important to our list and staying competitive but you can't ignore opportunities. You'd hope that Pech and co only move on a trade if we come out of it with a real upgrade chance. We are actually in a really good position to sit back and say well if you want Dal you're going to have to offer something pretty special or we are happy to keep him. I'd be more concerned about how Dal is going through all of this but you'd think the club is keeping him made aware and in a position of control over his destination if he does go.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
My preferred trades are Mcevoy for a top 10 pick and Fisher for anything.
Happy to keep dal and joey.
If someone offers a top 20 for dal I'd probably take it though.
Probably wont happen anyways.
But with Big Mac I reckon Hickey and Stanley could make a good ruck duo.
maverick wrote:We will always feel shafted in trade deals when we overvalue our players.
If we get anything better than pick 20-25 for Dal, Pelchen is very, very good.
As i have said before, I reckon its as much about Dal's trade value as it is about salary cap relief.
Just like the Dogs moving Lake on.
Big price contracts hurt the list balance as much as list cloggers.....
Why would we need Salary cap relief at the moment, and I assume Dal is or could be on the Vet list.
The vets would be Nick R. and Lenny
Vets list has changed. Not just two Players any more, basically have as many as you like.
maverick wrote:We will always feel shafted in trade deals when we overvalue our players.
If we get anything better than pick 20-25 for Dal, Pelchen is very, very good.
As i have said before, I reckon its as much about Dal's trade value as it is about salary cap relief.
Just like the Dogs moving Lake on.
Big price contracts hurt the list balance as much as list cloggers.....
Vets list has changed. Not just two Players any more, basically have as many as you like.
No but having more doesn't give you more relief it just spreads the benefit
Con Gorozidis wrote:My preferred trades are Mcevoy for a top 10 pick and Fisher for anything.
Happy to keep dal and joey.
If someone offers a top 20 for dal I'd probably take it though.
Probably wont happen anyways.
But with Big Mac I reckon Hickey and Stanley could make a good ruck duo.
Trading McEvoy would be plain stupid. He has just reaching the maturity to become one of the best ruckmen -look at long it took for Minson to be a very good player. Hickey has potential but is miles away from being first ruck and Stanley has not shown much as a ruckman and should be a forward only.
