Membership concerns

[lloyd21]

What a load of poppycock from a pack of whingers.

We had a couple of cracks at a flag and had a slary cap distribution that made recruitment hard and a "top up" mentality. Tht, combined with some woeful selections and a little bad luck means there was a hole in our recruiting that you could drive a road train through - that is a matter of public record.

How do you all propose that is fixed? Reckon we can get some good early draft picks by trading Jay Lever or Tom Ledger? As far as our list goes, these are desperate times and they call for desperate measures. We have little of value to offer and so are using what we have and relying on the rat cunning of Chris Pelchen to get maximum value for trades.

If you want to know what we are up against, look at the filth - they just flogged off two 27 year olds, got a gun kid and will end up with two top ten picks. Are their supporters whining about top line players being traded ?? The cult of personality among our supporters is a millstone around our necks. I have no doubts the club have resisted advantageous trades in the past for fear of supporter backlash.

Players move through your club. You get them in, hopefully under their real value, they play the game, hopefully at a high and consistent standard and with minimal games lost to injury, and then they either retire or get traded out to another club, hopefully at more than their real value. We don't seem to want to accept the last part, which in this day and age, is the key to continually topping up your list with top quality youth. The more top end talent you bring in, the more high value trades you can make 3 or more years into a players development. It is a self propogating cycle and we need to start the cycle up, because there has been no cycle like that at our club until recently. How do you think the pies are able to constantly get access to high picks? They are prepared to trade players out and they keep turning over (aside from half a dozen core players). We don't want to let anyone go and expect to rebuild with one pickj in the top 25 every year - get over it people, player movement will only get more active from here........

f****** oath.

+1

[dragit]

Good call TB... enough with the woe... In the next 3 years we will add some of the best young footballers in the country. Exciting.

[SinCitySainter]

Sell your soul for a flag.
If winning is all that is important then why did you start supporting the saints to begin with?
Next year the compensation for free agency will be gone.
The following the qualification for free agency will lower to 5 years.
Then just when we are holding some nice kids and a bundle of cash to throw at a Dangerfield and ready to push up the table.
We will make a big offer to Dangerfield and he will still end up at Sydney or Collingwood etc...
Look at what happened with Buddy.
GWS to compete in the FA market need to pay Heath Shaw 750K a year, we will be in the same boat because we are not fashionable.
Shaw is a reasonable HBF and a trouble maker. He is not one of the top 20 players in the league but he is being paid that way.
We can no longer compete take off the rose coloured glasses.
Crameri is being offered 400K a year to go to the doggies.
It is crazy for the poorer less fashionable clubs.
The AFL wants a comp where the rich are permanently at the top and the poor at the bottom, it is good for revenue.
Don't worry though they won't let us die out they need 18 teams.
If we are successful it keeps a rich club away from the top which is bad for business. Us a rabble though, Oh happy day for the AFL.

[citywest]

Good call TB... enough with the woe... In the next 3 years we will add some of the best young footballers in the country. Exciting.

Exactly, and Pelican has set that up beautifully.

[stinger]

I think it may well be the straw for some but not this alone. Having had a membership for over 30 years I must admit the off field stuff around this club and the explanations I have had to try to explain to my young child has made me rethink for the first time ever about renewing . I grew up when we sucked and won 10 games per decade so performance is not a determining factor , nor even trading players whether i agree or not as a fan. Milne, Jones, Fisher and other off field incidents in the last few years however have made me question things - perhaps they were there but with young kids now i look at things differently

+ 1

As I stated in another thread, I have already renewed for next year (my 20th as a member), but living in SA with young kids, one is a 7yo boy who currently supports the Saints, it is getting extremely tough.
He loves footy, loves going to games, he's getting brainwashed at school & by two Port supporting Grandparents. He is also at that age where he wants to see his team win. That, along with all of the off field BS & trading away champions???????????

I love the Saints, but I also love my kids.

i know what i would be saying to those grandparents....

[stinger]

So wait people are not going to renew for two reasons?

1) because their fav player has gone..... can you buy a dal santo membership card? Rubbish, typical soft response. Players will come and go, the saints will go on. I support the saints.

2) because we might be crap for the next two - three years. Wow that's cool, save your money and buy one when we are back up in the finals..... unless we never get there because your SOFT and the club loses enough money to go to the wall. We wonder why we are not a Collingwood or Hawks??? Its because people do not stick fat!!

not just dal....it's big boy, bj, bally and all the rest..........poor recruiting decisions, bad behaviour., club turmoil, unrest, seaford......etc etc......we have flogged off too many of our players and disenfanchised our supporter base....i will probably calm down and renew as i have always done before...but the decision not too is becoming easier every year with every new drama and disappointments.......no other club has lost so many absolute champions to other clubs as we have...it has to stop........thomas was going to do that...but they even got him in the end......i've stuck so far for over 60 years so your comment about supporters not sticking fat is a bit unfair.....

[stinger]

stinger in Pelican we pray.

He'll either be a god or a villain but has a plan.

Maybe go support GWS. They need members and the fires won't help them either

that's really offensive....if i don't renew , doesn't mean that i will stop following them ffs....


the pelican may be our saviour...might also be our executioner......time will tell.....

[BigMart]

Oh good

The bottoming out strategy will see us win a second flag? It's worked well for some clubs recently, having a losing culture??

In this day and age, it'd be nice to draft a player, develop a player and keep hold of them.... Let alone build a list to compete with GWS, GC, Freo, Sydney in the next 8 years

We are not assured of anything, Pelchin has never DELIVERED a flag at StK.... In fact he is yet to deliver anything but unrest and trading down picks for mature age players and changing tact.

He's at odds with the coach, he is playing Russian roulette with a club, and may well take a job at another club at any given time... Like a recent messiah?

[ozrulestrace]

I am very concerned we will not reach 20,000 members in 2014.

With not a lot of hope on the horizon, the ongoing Drama that is the St.kilda FC and a few of our big names gone I have a feeling membership will drop off significantly again this year. Whilst many of us might see the BIG PICTURE the common saints supporter would be very apprehensive about spending $185 to watch a bunch of 'no name' kids?

Thoughts

well...they could be five down from my family alone...not happy jan......some of my tribe have been members their whole lives......three of us are/were social club members.....

And that's the problem with our fan base, nothing perosnal against you Stinger.
I reckon we follow players as much as the club.
Do we have more in our lives than other clubs that don't stay members when the going's tough or a player leaves?

Never have I purchased a membership based on the adoration of one particular player, it's always been about the St Kilda Football Club, a The Saints, a The Red Black and White.

And that's why my membership has already been rolled over and ready for Season 2014.

[stinger]

If you guys are angry - be angry at the Ross Lyon era. This era - where recruiting for the future took a backseat, is the reason why those in charge at the club now are getting rid of the Dal Santos and the like.

If we had a balanced list right now, then we would hang onto these guys - but we are NOT going to win a flag in the next couple of years. We need to recruit for the next few years.

Open your eyes, think a little & stop blaming the club for everything you don't currently like.

RENEW your membership because if you don't - you are actually contributing to the decline of the St.Kilda football club.

What goes down must come up (Unless you're Melbourne).

i hear what you are saying.......but in the end..the club did try to hang on to dal......which of course makes a mockery of the so called sound reasons for wanting to trade him in the first place........after shopping him around and telling everyone for months that he was on the trade table, dal just didn't want to stay....and if things are even 10% as finey paints them...who could blame him....bj also wanted to stay last year....all the saints had o do was match the stains bid....they couldn't be bothered......all over a forth year of a contract....bj went on to be the stains best player...as will dal with north last year......no...the current guys are the ones resonsible for us losing dal and bj....not lyin....sure he did his damage and started the rot...and for that i will always despise the mongrel....

[dragit]

Oh good

The bottoming out strategy will see us win a second flag? It's worked well for some clubs recently, having a losing culture??

In this day and age, it'd be nice to draft a player, develop a player and keep hold of them.... Let alone build a list to compete with GWS, GC, Freo, Sydney in the next 8 years

We are not assured of anything, Pelchin has never DELIVERED a flag at StK.... In fact he is yet to deliver anything but unrest and trading down picks for mature age players and changing tact.

He's at odds with the coach, he is playing Russian roulette with a club, and may well take a job at another club at any given time... Like a recent messiah?

Ablett
Franklin
Kennedy
Shaw
Thomas

Wake up its 2013.

[dragit]

Btw BigMart... You may have noticed that bottoming out has been the biggest factor in collingwood & hawthorn recent flags and our near misses.

[matrix]

pfft

first payment came out last week

harden up

[Cairnsman]

Btw BigMart... You may have noticed that bottoming out has been the biggest factor in collingwood & hawthorn recent flags and our near misses.

Absolutely! In actual fact if you are a positive type of person and half glass full type then you will be able to recognise the Saints are one of the few clubs to use the system to it's advantage like the Pies and Hawks have.

In actual fact if you spin it even further we should be able to draw on experience and in the early 2000s and repeat the cycle. People that keep suggesting we will go the way of Melbourne are clearly blinded by their own sadness and negativity.

The other thing to note is that a poorer club like the Saints have little option but to use the system available to them because we don't have the luxury of being as flush with funds/membership like the richer clubs are.

[stinger]

Sell your soul for a flag.
If winning is all that is important then why did you start supporting the saints to begin with?
Next year the compensation for free agency will be gone.
The following the qualification for free agency will lower to 5 years.
Then just when we are holding some nice kids and a bundle of cash to throw at a Dangerfield and ready to push up the table.
We will make a big offer to Dangerfield and he will still end up at Sydney or Collingwood etc...
Look at what happened with Buddy.
GWS to compete in the FA market need to pay Heath Shaw 750K a year, we will be in the same boat because we are not fashionable.
Shaw is a reasonable HBF and a trouble maker. He is not one of the top 20 players in the league but he is being paid that way.
We can no longer compete take off the rose coloured glasses.
Crameri is being offered 400K a year to go to the doggies.
It is crazy for the poorer less fashionable clubs.
The AFL wants a comp where the rich are permanently at the top and the poor at the bottom, it is good for revenue.
Don't worry though they won't let us die out they need 18 teams.
If we are successful it keeps a rich club away from the top which is bad for business. Us a rabble though, Oh happy day for the AFL.

unfortunately, i think you are on the money there....

[Wayne42]

I am very concerned we will not reach 20,000 members in 2014.

With not a lot of hope on the horizon, the ongoing Drama that is the St.kilda FC and a few of our big names gone I have a feeling membership will drop off significantly again this year. Whilst many of us might see the BIG PICTURE the common saints supporter would be very apprehensive about spending $185 to watch a bunch of 'no name' kids?

Thoughts

well...they could be five down from my family alone...not happy jan......some of my tribe have been members their whole lives......three of us are/were social club members.....

And that's the problem with our fan base, nothing perosnal against you Stinger.
I reckon we follow players as much as the club.
Do we have more in our lives than other clubs that don't stay members when the going's tough or a player leaves?

I follow the club, not the players, it's why i don't get cut when they go

[Eastern]

I'm on board for 2014

Roll-Over thingy kicked in a few ays ago !!

[andrewg]

I think it may well be the straw for some but not this alone. Having had a membership for over 30 years I must admit the off field stuff around this club and the explanations I have had to try to explain to my young child has made me rethink for the first time ever about renewing . I grew up when we sucked and won 10 games per decade so performance is not a determining factor , nor even trading players whether i agree or not as a fan. Milne, Jones, Fisher and other off field incidents in the last few years however have made me question things - perhaps they were there but with young kids now i look at things differently

+1

[andrewg]

To be honest we need something to happen off field....some type of solidarity for our supporters. Again I reiterate, probably all of us on this forum will renew but it's not 'us' I am talking about. Its the every day supporter I am concerned about. Even in our successful years of late we we're bombarded with controversy.....it was talked about on this site, the money we lost for sponsors because off all the rubbish was a disaster.

I just think we have to secure a Major sponsor. A company that is a big name
Coke Zero
LinFox
Apple
Etc

Then make a strong decision on Morrabin. Either sell Seaford and move back or build a culture that embraces the Seaford move....no more talk of this, it should not be an issue. If Seaford is here to stay promote our move to a stand alone reserves team at Moorabin, maybe even move to play games there against GWS, Gold Coast etc, just like the cats have done.

Trade for pick 2. We need to give GWS pick 18, 25 and a player for pick 2. Welcome Aish and Kelly to the club big pictures and interviews of them on our website a day after they have been recruited with our new sponsor all over their chest.

Make sure we get Delany and Bruce just so we can show supporters we can identify a trade target and actually achieve it.

Then the kicker, secure Billy Longer.

We would then have
Picks 2, 3 and 24
Savage
Delany
Bruce
Longer

And a big sponsorship deal



I believe all this wouldn't hurt so much if we had one a GF in 2009-2010. The passion is wearing thin I feel, but if all of the above were to happen, hope will start to creep back into the red white and black and membership would reach 30,000+

[plugger66]

Oh good

The bottoming out strategy will see us win a second flag? It's worked well for some clubs recently, having a losing culture??

In this day and age, it'd be nice to draft a player, develop a player and keep hold of them.... Let alone build a list to compete with GWS, GC, Freo, Sydney in the next 8 years

We are not assured of anything, Pelchin has never DELIVERED a flag at StK.... In fact he is yet to deliver anything but unrest and trading down picks for mature age players and changing tact.

He's at odds with the coach, he is playing Russian roulette with a club, and may well take a job at another club at any given time... Like a recent messiah?

Dont agree with how we are doing it but how has all our other options gone in the last 140 years? Stop looking for every single fault at the club. Sure there could be Hawks finding some.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

Retaining all the old favourite players may help keep faith with the old fans who believe the game is changing. Unfortunately those old fans will gradually die off; quite literally.

The approach Pelchen and Co are attempting now may cause some of those old fans to drop off. But it may eventually see the Saints win a 2nd flag; then maybe a 3rd. And if that does happen then our membership will be far healthier, with an influx of groovy young supporters (perhaps even a few from the Bayside and Mornington Peninsula areas ), than if we simply continue to appeal to the rusted ons.

As someone who has attended games since the early 70s, I don't particularly like where the game is going. And I don't particularly like Dal leaving.

But nothing else has brought us the ultimate success and therefore I'm prepared to back our team in what they are trying to achieve, even if from time to time there's a little sadness involved.

I want a flag and to finally be able to shove it up the opposition supporters! If I want nostalgia I'll go to Sovereign Hill.

Wish I was a groovy young supporter!

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

I support the St. Kilda football club not the Nick Dal Santo or Brendan Goddard Football Club. Players come and go the club is forever. Enough of this hero worshipping BS! It's embarrassing!

[Dr Spaceman]

I support the St. Kilda football club not the Nick Dal Santo or Brendan Goddard Football Club. Players come and go the club is forever. Enough of this hero worshipping BS! It's embarrassing!

You sound like a groovy supporter

[Dis Believer]

Oh good

The bottoming out strategy will see us win a second flag? It's worked well for some clubs recently, having a losing culture??

In this day and age, it'd be nice to draft a player, develop a player and keep hold of them.... Let alone build a list to compete with GWS, GC, Freo, Sydney in the next 8 years

We are not assured of anything, Pelchin has never DELIVERED a flag at StK.... In fact he is yet to deliver anything but unrest and trading down picks for mature age players and changing tact.

He's at odds with the coach, he is playing Russian roulette with a club, and may well take a job at another club at any given time... Like a recent messiah?

You're so full of piss and wind it makes me ill. Bottoming out is not a strategy - it's the reality of where our list is at. Pelchen and Watters did not "try" to get us here, we landed here courtesy of the previous regime. The current regime is trying to use it to our advantage to secure a way back up. They inherited a list full of aging stars and few middle tier players and an age profile that's laughable. Do you think there were other options? WE could of hung onto those aging stars, and continued to be hampered by a badly skewed salary distribution, and bought in one first one pick of (hopefully) quality youth every year and waited three years for that pick to develop (or not).... where would that have got us??

The whining about BJ and Dal going is indicative of myopic supporters who are caught in the mire of the cult of personality and don't even realise it. Do you want to follow a strong, vibrant aggressive club that takes it's future into it's own hands, or do you want to follow a club that continues to wallow in mediocrity because we can't bear to part with our aging stars? Let me tell you, the guys at the top are not following the second model. Geelong just pensioned off premiership[ heroes who want to play on. Can you imagine the gnashing of teeth and sackcloth and ashes routine that would descend on this place if we had done been in the position to do that??

As a club we have a long history of finding new ways to shoot ourselves in the foot, and a supporter base who constantly wail about that fact. We finally have people running the show who seem to be saying "no more" and putting strategies and actions into place to change that, and still the supporter base want to wail about it.

You may not agree with the player choices, but at least support the fact that they have a plan for a change, and that it is based in the reality that if you have jack s*** of value in the trade market then you simply have to take your medicine and trade the things you have that are of value if you want to make any progress.

You can continue to fluff around the edges and not upset the apple cart and all stay in your comfortable little ruts, or you can make a step change and actually make a difference. The irony is that had they hung on to the grim end with BJ, Dal etc , in three years time everyone would be whinging "why did't we offload them three years ago when they still had some sort of value"......

[BigMart]

Why is the list there? Because we made a couple of GFs?? Do better....

"We finally" ??? GT, Ross.... Did they not enact change? Cultural and Managerial??

Do you know why the incumbents are defended.... Because they are there ATM.... When they're are gone, they will be absolutely smashed for getting us in this mess....Like Ross, GT and TW were.... TW a more correct example, but GT ruined players and couldn't coach, Ross left us in this mess... Blah, blah....

There was no need to HAVE to drop down the ladder?.... Other clubs managed not to

There is NO GUARANTEE of a rise either? Melbourne have been rebuilding since 08

Lets see how the forum reacts to the two blokes who don't get on after a year or so.... Watters will have a <30% record and Pelchin will get rid of him, StK will go after a big name coach.... Who will piss Pelchin off IMO