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dragit wrote:Why don't we just start with 4 mids in the centre?
3 vs 4 when their ruckman palms the ball down.
Because if you didnt contest they would kill you.
Exactly - therefore having a ruckman who can compete is VERY important. McEvoy is playing well at the hawks but up until this week they weren't doing well at the clearances.
I agree that merely winning a tap out means stuff all. But if you are winning tap outs so convincingly that you can virtually set-up offensively at every clearance, and not worry about losing the tap, then your team becomes VERY dangerous. I feel that Big Ben was becoming like that last year for us. (in reverse) I am very happy with Hickey so far
dragit wrote:Why don't we just start with 4 mids in the centre?
3 vs 4 when their ruckman palms the ball down.
Because if you didnt contest they would kill you.
Exactly - therefore having a ruckman who can compete is VERY important. McEvoy is playing well at the hawks but up until this week they weren't doing well at the clearances.
I agree that merely winning a tap out means stuff all. But if you are winning tap outs so convincingly that you can virtually set-up offensively at every clearance, and not worry about losing the tap, then your team becomes VERY dangerous. I feel that Big Ben was becoming like that last year for us. (in reverse) I am very happy with Hickey so far
So am I because he is getting the ball around the ground and kicking the occassional goal. He is getting smashed in the actual hit out stat.
To me it doesn't really seem like we are in a worse position with the exchange of Ben and hickey as first ruck. To me Hickey has a bit more potential due to age and experience. So we are no worse off in the now and possibly better off in the future. Time will tell. Contested possession and hitouts are both not very accurately recorded because both have plenty of nuance that can make them vary. Clarke Keating smashing the ball forward 40 meters is recorded the same as grazing a finger tip on the way through to a midfielders hands.
plugger66 wrote:Sandilands smashed the Hawks in the ruck last GF but they lost.
That is a stupidly simplistic view, p66...and you're better than that.
Fremantle didn't take their opportunities when they had them...that's why they lost. I would suggest that Sandilands help set up most of those opportunities...not his fault that his team mates missed simple set shots.
plugger66 wrote:Sandilands smashed the Hawks in the ruck last GF but they lost.
That is a stupidly simplistic view, p66...and you're better than that.
Fremantle didn't take their opportunities when they had them...that's why they lost. I would suggest that Sandilands help set up most of those opportunities...not his fault that his team mates missed simple set shots.
I didnt give a reason why they lost. You are exactly right as to why they lost. And if you look at why I said that then its totally relevant. And I dont think people are actually getting what I am saying. Unless you are a champion ruckman and there is bugger all of them then you need to have what is the next best thing and IMO I would sacrifice hits for around the ground work and goal kicking because there is no correlation between winning hit outs and winning games. Sure every side would love a Cox but there inst many of them going around. Hickey has been a revelation this year and it isnt because of hit outs because he is getting smashed in that area.
plugger66 wrote:
Fremantle didn't take their opportunities when they had them...that's why they lost. I would suggest that Sandilands help set up most of those opportunities...not his fault that his team mates missed simple set shots.
Sandilands wins a lot of indiscriminate hitouts - some go to his team''s advantage, but a fair few go straight to the opposition midfielders - or his team's disadvantage.
He sets up a lot of opportunities for the opposition, too.
Three years ago, at Docklands - Sandilands kept winning the hitouts, and we kept winning the ball out of the centre - to the extent that I was barracking for him to win every hitout - but he was effective around the ground.
samoht wrote:sorry, I quoted the wrong person in my previous post - the highlighted post I was referring to was written by lifelong saint - not plugger.
samoht wrote:sorry, I quoted the wrong person in my previous post - the highlighted post I was referring to was written by lifelong saint - not plugger.
Sure there are times when Ruckman get an extremely good tap to advantage ( mostly from set play in the forward goal area) but the majority of the game is won and lost in the heat of the kitchen.
Not sure where I read it but I think when teams win possession, centre clearances and contested footy, they win 9 times out of 10. (I'm also guessing that the three benchmarks we are aiming to win)
That's why ruckman need to be good elsewhere around the ground. The days of the lumbering tsp out only dinasours are numbered,particularly with the lessening interchanges.
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
supersaints wrote:Sure there are times when Ruckman get an extremely good tap to advantage ( mostly from set play in the forward goal area) but the majority of the game is won and lost in the heat of the kitchen.
Not sure where I read it but I think when teams win possession, centre clearances and contested footy, they win 9 times out of 10. (I'm also guessing that the three benchmarks we are aiming to win)
That's why ruckman need to be good elsewhere around the ground. The days of the lumbering tsp out only dinasours are numbered,particularly with the lessening interchanges.
What is it about the 'forward goal area' that produces so many great taps from ruckman? Mostly in this area? Is it that you just havnt noticed, or can't measure the same good taps elsewhere around the ground?
Ones that had no impact besides ball ups and around the ground didn't win their own ball.... He said its like playing with 17 men
In his time as a coach he had
Capuano, Knobel, Blake, Ackland, Stone, Rix, Van Reehnan,
I would suggest Blake was head and shoulders the best player there... And indeed the best Ruckman. He actually invigorated Blakes career by putting him into the ruck and Blakes best 5 games are in the ruck.
And to say he didn't try and recruit Ruckman is also a fallacy
Besides the ones the list mgt team got for him
They through heaps at D.Cox, J,White, T. Simmons, B.McDonald
The Warnock article suggests that Hit Outs are insignificant .... If they are under pressure, planned against and the player is then exposed around the ground.
BigMart wrote:One of the biggest fallacies in football
That GT didn't rate ruckmen?!
He didn't rate sh*t ruckmen!
Ones that had no impact besides ball ups and around the ground didn't win their own ball.... He said its like playing with 17 men
In his time as a coach he had
Capuano, Knobel, Blake, Ackland, Stone, Rix, Van Reehnan,
I would suggest Blake was head and shoulders the best player there... And indeed the best Ruckman. He actually invigorated Blakes career by putting him into the ruck and Blakes best 5 games are in the ruck.
And to say he didn't try and recruit Ruckman is also a fallacy
Besides the ones the list mgt team got for him
They through heaps at D.Cox, J,White, T. Simmons, B.McDonald
supersaints wrote:Sure there are times when Ruckman get an extremely good tap to advantage ( mostly from set play in the forward goal area)
What is it about the 'forward goal area' that produces so many great taps from ruckman? Mostly in this area? Is it that you just havnt noticed, or can't measure the same good taps elsewhere around the ground?
Is the grass thicker in the f50? Surely not.
The good and the bad are accentuated in the F50 - the sword/hitout cuts both ways, only deeper!
Let's not forget that some of the worst tapouts (to disadvantage) also happen in set play in the forward goal area .. that clear tap out from our ruckman to Wanganeen in the clear, in that Port Adelaide final. Wanganeen kicked a goal at a critical stage - and that piece of set play, and our ruckman, cost us the game (not the people running on the ground).
Attackers all drag their opponents boundary side, open up space inside and the put on a block for a player who does a flyby.
Around the ground this player is called the sweeper... He runs through a clearance
Stk possibly have the current best in the AFL... Jack Steven... Dal and Len play this role occasionally
IF50 Stephen Milne was often used in this role
Watch a tape of an old stk f50 stoppage and watch Milney circle the ruck contest.
He will stand fat side of his Opp, or get a block As the umpire is about to throw it up he bumps off and at the balls highest point is accelerating around to the inside of the contest... Right foot snap!
It's a set play
Jolly did it well, and his best example was to Nick Davis in a prelim... But he did it often
Nat tries it now, with less success
It takes both rucking and roving though.... Which has an element of innate touch and timing
Bluthy wrote:Have you ever tried to give a chip to a particular seagull eg. the one with one leg? Damn difficult.
IMHO that's one of the-great-posts Bluthy!
Deep. Pertinent. Damn funny.
And a bloody funny response from Dragstar too.
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jan 2024 8:07pmCongrats to Dave McNamara - hereby dubbed the KNOWINGEST KNOW IT ALL of Saintsational
supersaints wrote:Sure there are times when Ruckman get an extremely good tap to advantage ( mostly from set play in the forward goal area) but the majority of the game is won and lost in the heat of the kitchen.
Not sure where I read it but I think when teams win possession, centre clearances and contested footy, they win 9 times out of 10. (I'm also guessing that the three benchmarks we are aiming to win)
That's why ruckman need to be good elsewhere around the ground. The days of the lumbering tsp out only dinasours are numbered,particularly with the lessening interchanges.
What is it about the 'forward goal area' that produces so many great taps from ruckman? Mostly in this area? Is it that you just havnt noticed, or can't measure the same good taps elsewhere around the ground?
Is the grass thicker in the f50? Surely not.
So much to gain from the attacking side a tap to a clear forward, in retrospect if it goes the defending side it's unlikely to result in a hurried attempt to clear it out of the danger area. Probably forward clearances from a ball up, or throw in, close to the goal are one of the most practiced.
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
