My Best Saints Team of the Last 50 Years

[Moorabbin Man]

B: Frawley Hudgton Peckett

HB: Barker Lawrence S Fisher

C: Winmar Stewart G McAdam

HF: G Young Riewoldt Baldock

F: Milne Lockett Hamill

Rucks: Ditterich & Hayes
Rover: Harvey


Inter: Burke, Everitt, Gehrig & R Smith

Coach: A Jeans

[stinger]

Would have John Mcintosh in there before about 6 or 7 of those players , he was an absolute star who was cut down in his prime, could nearly play anywhere!

yep...he was the first one to come to mind....although was listed as unlucky....joffa and burns would be my two inclusions...mad dog also at a pinch..on pure footballing ability....


interchange bench top heavy...i would drop neale and spider for joffa and burns....and find a way to include muintosh as the second ruck...maybe at lawrences expense....

[Old Mate]

As it would seem I'm a bit younger than most on here. I can't remember much before around 91....Grant and Barker I have little memory of.

Dempster unlucky to miss. I reckon if he hit his peak in our grand final years he would be a monty. He's only really come on the last 2-3 years IMO. Schnieder unlucky but couldn't find a spot in a packed forward line that is a little top heavy. Stewie on the bench as 2nd ruck/forward.

The best team I've seen: 1991 - Present

B: Baker Frawley Hudgton
HB: Goddard Fisher Jones
C: Winmar Hayes Dal Santo
HF: Montagna Riewoldt Hamill
F: Milne Lockett Gehrig
R: Everitt Harvey Burke
I: Loewe Peckett Ball Thompson

[Mr Magic]

I respect all opinions on this topic having posted my thoughts a few days ago. However, I would like to individualise on one player, Barry Lawrence. Nothwithstanding all the great players mentioned, Barry was a favourite of mine and I think commands a sport in the 22. He was one of the toughest hardest players I have seen, he had great skills, could play back pocket, CHB, CHF, FF, he captained the club in 74-75, and is officially named in the St Kilda and Tasmanian teams of the century.
It is said he played in the 71 Grand Final with a metal plate inserted in his arm from a break sustained in the prelim final.

Does anybody else remember Barry as I do?

A fantastic player was Barry (I had him in my 22)
Very unfortunate that he 'fell-out; with the Club.

[gringo]

As it would seem I'm a bit younger than most on here. I can't remember much before around 91....Grant and Barker I have little memory of.

Dempster unlucky to miss. I reckon if he hit his peak in our grand final years he would be a monty. He's only really come on the last 2-3 years IMO. Schnieder unlucky but couldn't find a spot in a packed forward line that is a little top heavy. Stewie on the bench as 2nd ruck/forward.

The best team I've seen: 1991 - Present

B: Baker Frawley Hudgton
HB: Goddard Fisher Jones
C: Winmar Hayes Dal Santo
HF: Montagna Riewoldt Hamill
F: Milne Lockett Gehrig
R: Everitt Harvey Burke
I: Loewe Peckett Ball Thompson

i'm from your era too. I can't remember much before then either. Barker I remember from footy cards when i was really young but that's it.

[MrCordz]

B Kevin Neale, Max Hudghton, Trevor Barker
HB Brendan Goddard, John McIntosh, Nick Dal Santo
C Nicky Winmar, Ian Stewart, Lenny Hayes
HF George Young, Nick Riewoldt (vc), Darrell Baldock (c)
F Stephen Milne, Tony Lockett, Stewart Loewe
R Carl Ditterich, Robert Harvey, Ross Smith
I/C Stewart Loewe, Verdun Howell, Nathan Burke, Fraser Gehrig

- Loewe because he could play as second ruck and also a much better forward than Everitt.
- Gehrig because he could play full-back (2nd in B&F in 2002) and led our goal-kicking for five years at a time when we already had Milne and Riewoldt.
- Hudghton, in my view, is the outstanding full-back of the club's history. Unbelievably underrated. Hardly ever monstered and beat nearly everyone.
- Dal Santo is a club great. Ninth on the list of all-time games. I hope nobody lets his trade to North colour a wonderful career. Ditto Goddard, another 200+ game great.
- Maybe you could only choose one of Ross Smith or Nathan Burke, but at the peak of his powers, Burke was an exceptionally tough, strong player and deserves his place. A warrior.

Whilst the era didn't yield a premiership, it's impossible to overlook the richest run of wins in the clubs history - 2003-2012, a decade when we won more games than we lost every single season.

I do feel that, unfortunately, may of our recent crop are getting judged harshly on their final years, when they were unable to have much of an impact (Gehrig, Burke, Hudghton). They deserve to be remembered at their peak.

(If it was an actual game, looking at that bench, I would probably ditch Howell for Sam Fisher, because he would release Dal/BJ up into the midfield.)

My thoughts exactly regarding memories fading due to the latter years of champions being less than their peak - Harvey suffers from this on an AFL wide scale.

[BigMart]

Not sure about the 'oracle'

To suggest an all time great should be considered in any best of team

He made the team of the century FFS

Don't get shirty because I suggested he would be in MY best 10 players let alone 22.... FFS I'd put him in the forward pocket if need be?
Lenny Hayes.... How many games as an outside wingman?

Elphingston at HB was reliable but it was Moorwood as a HB who was a B&F and damaging in the 80s ..... Burns was possibly even more reliable as StK better players

Dunnell was a dual B&F as a BP and played for Victoria

But am sure that Nathan Burke could play BP if need be, as he played a lot there from 87-92... And was a state rep as a BP ..... But was too good a player to be stuck there and graduated to the midfield

FWIW

My best team

B: Frawley..... Murray..... Burke

HB Howell...... Fisher....... Barker

C: Winmar ...... Stewart ....

HF: Riewoldt...... Loewe ..... Baldock

F: Young......... Lockett ....... Milne

Foll: Ditterich..... Harvey .... Smith

Int
Lawrence.....


Mmm... Have to think more about the other wing and 3 more interchanges?

[stinger]

I respect all opinions on this topic having posted my thoughts a few days ago. However, I would like to individualise on one player, Barry Lawrence. Nothwithstanding all the great players mentioned, Barry was a favourite of mine and I think commands a sport in the 22. He was one of the toughest hardest players I have seen, he had great skills, could play back pocket, CHB, CHF, FF, he captained the club in 74-75, and is officially named in the St Kilda and Tasmanian teams of the century.
It is said he played in the 71 Grand Final with a metal plate inserted in his arm from a break sustained in the prelim final.

Does anybody else remember Barry as I do?

A fantastic player was Barry (I had him in my 22)
Very unfortunate that he 'fell-out; with the Club.

was very close to where he was sitting in the game against the filth at etihad.....crapuanos and barry's son's last game if i remember correctly.....he was very abusive towards the saints coaching staff on the night and didn't seem to care who heard him......

that was the game where crapuano squibbed it and was dragged.......goose went into the ruck...from memory our full back......troy maybe.... got really towelled up by one of the roccas....


great footballer was barry, but an uncouth tasmanian all the same.......cowboy once told me a story about barry opening the old long neck bottles of beer on the side of john bonney's new teak dinning room table.....barry was a lot harder than the teak it turned out.......think i've tod this story before too......

[stinger]

Not sure about the 'oracle'

To suggest an all time great should be considered in any best of team

He made the team of the century FFS

Don't get shirty because I suggested he would be in MY best 10 players let alone 22.... FFS I'd put him in the forward pocket if need be?
Lenny Hayes.... How many games as an outside wingman?

Elphingston at HB was reliable but it was Moorwood as a HB who was a B&F and damaging in the 80s ..... Burns was possibly even more reliable as StK better players

Dunnell was a dual B&F as a BP and played for Victoria

But am sure that Nathan Burke could play BP if need be, as he played a lot there from 87-92... And was a state rep as a BP ..... But was too good a player to be stuck there and graduated to the midfield

FWIW

My best team

B: Frawley..... Murray..... Burke

HB Howell...... Fisher....... Barker

C: Winmar ...... Stewart ....

HF: Riewoldt...... Loewe ..... Baldock

F: Young......... Lockett ....... Milne

Foll: Ditterich..... Harvey .... Smith

Int
Lawrence.....


Mmm... Have to think more about the other wing and 3 more interchanges?

i think you mean dunne....

[stinger]

Very Good team Mr Magic, for me I have David Grant fractionally ahead of Rob Elphingstone

I think I might be able to find a spot for Max Hudgston, probably at CHB and Sam Fisher to the back pocket replacing Roger Head.

Also would have Jeff Sarau on the bench instead of Spider Everitt, can you imagine the mayhem with Big Carl and Pup Sarau on the ground at the same time

well they did play together...along with gary sidebottom , jimmy o'dea and mad dog....the dopers called them a pack of animals......

jimmy gyatt and darly griffith were much better half back flankers that david grant and robbie was a cetre half back....


just goes to show how many true champion players the saints have had over time....

[stinger]

, I quite like Mr Magic;s team, but I would have Burkey in there instead of Roger Head, and Darrel Griffith on the flank instead of Eel. I would be one of the few that have seen all of these players play. Stiff to miss out would be Glenn Elliott. Jeff Sarau, David Grant, Greg Burns, Super Duper, and many others.

joffa....

[Mr Magic]

Not sure about the 'oracle'

To suggest an all time great should be considered in any best of team

He made the team of the century FFS

Don't get shirty because I suggested he would be in MY best 10 players let alone 22.... FFS I'd put him in the forward pocket if need be?
Lenny Hayes.... How many games as an outside wingman?

Elphingston at HB was reliable but it was Moorwood as a HB who was a B&F and damaging in the 80s ..... Burns was possibly even more reliable as StK better players

Dunnell was a dual B&F as a BP and played for Victoria

But am sure that Nathan Burke could play BP if need be, as he played a lot there from 87-92... And was a state rep as a BP ..... But was too good a player to be stuck there and graduated to the midfield

FWIW

My best team

B: Frawley..... Murray..... Burke

HB Howell...... Fisher....... Barker

C: Winmar ...... Stewart ....

HF: Riewoldt...... Loewe ..... Baldock

F: Young......... Lockett ....... Milne

Foll: Ditterich..... Harvey .... Smith

Int
Lawrence.....


Mmm... Have to think more about the other wing and 3 more interchanges?

Sorry, but you don't 'suggest'
IMHO you arrogantly 'sneer'.

And in that vein I take exception to your 'sneering post' at my opinion.
FFS (to use your vernacular) the thread heading states that it is 'MY BEST SAINTS TEAM OF THE LAST 50 YEARS.
Surely that's not too difficult a proposition to make that it is MY OPINION, and ONLY MY OPINION.

Why you couldn't , like the rest of us, just post 'your team' I don't understand.
Its like you need to 'prove' your superiority over the rest of us by making sneering remarks to all and sundry whenever anybody posts something that you don't agree with..

Now maybe I'll get a warning from the mods for being 'abusive' to you but so be it.
I've had just about enough of your smarmy, baiting posts and then your predictable 'I'm a victim' response when your baits elicit your desired responses.
You're no fool, You know exactly what you're doing.
I recognize it.
Others recognize it.
And as for your 'tactic' of not quoting who you're responding to so you can then 'feign innocence' when the natural shytestorm erupts, all I can say is that it is transparent and boring.

It's only my opinion but the forum would be far better off if the mods had recognized your role in the P66/BigMart stoushes and banned you for a month as well.
The banning of plugger66 is, again IMHO, much like the old tribunal system where often the retaliator copped the suspension whilst the 'instigator' gets off unscathed.

[Trev from the Bush]

[quote="Dave McNamara"][quote="Mr Magic"]Having read the Hun's latest version of the 'Greatest AFL Team' and beig 'gobsmacked' again at the failure to put the playe I consider to be The Saints best ever (the Doc) in the team I decided to sit down and work out the best Saints players I've seen in the last 50 years.


John McIntosh definitely... even with only 50-odd games. (I didn't seen Carl's earlier career, so don't rate him like many others do, and Spider could have been anything... and that's the problem. Jeff Sarau very unlucky to miss too IMHO.)

More controversy... I'd have Graham Gellie and Bruce Duperouzal ahead of the very unlucky Tipper. (I realise that only one season before the knee went can be held against Gellie.)

Barry Lawrence, Bob Murray and probably Darryl Griffiths ahead of Spud and Elphinstone.

Wayne Judson?

Great gets in mentioning George Young and Glenn Elliott.

I'd add Greg Burns, John Bonney, Rod Owen and David Grant to the unluckies.


So that'd be...
INS: B. Lawrence, Bob Murray, John McIntosh, Graham Gellie, Owen.
OUTS: Elphinstone, Frawley, Ditterich, Everritt, Milne.
EMERG: Super Duper, Burns, Billings.

No Shadow? Come off it Dave! A young Carl today would have every club tanking to get him as #1 draft pick. The prototype of the running ruckman and fearsome to boot.

Bob Murray a lock for full back, I watched every game he ever played. The only time I ever saw him lower his colours was at Glenferrie Oval when one P Hudson booted 6 in the last quarter after an entralling battle for the first three.

John McIntosh was already a great in the WAFL when he came (4 years after we signed him). He was an inital failure as a ruckman but thrived and showed his true class when switched to the half-forward and half-back lines. Ask any player who was on the receiving end of one of his swinging left-footed stab passes how good he was. A tragedy when he broke down.

Gellie, one great debut season and a few very good games a few seasons later does not make him a great of the past 50 years. Likewise, Rod Owen will only ever rate as a coodabeen. A lay down mazaire, though, should we ever select a Heartbreak Team of the Century.

Daryl Griffiths was an absolutely great player who was only 23 when he left the club (that wouldn't happen now!). I saw him play his first 2 minutes at Windy Hill as a 17 year old in 1963 as a full forward. A goal with his first kick in the first minute then stretchered off after being on the receiving end of a Bluey Shelton animal act. He came back 2 years later and was a star from then on.

Duperouzel, Burns, et al, were good players in the clubs darkest days. No place in my team for being the best of a rabble. Barry Lawrence was a great warrior in a once mighty team on the wain and had enough skills to play admirably in any position. Deserves his place.

But no Ditterich? Really Dave, go have a cold shower and put on some old videos. Preferably from the 1968 season when Shadow was unstoppable. Then, tell me if you'd prefer Carl to Tom Hickey in your team.

[BigMart]

Magic, if you want to post it, put it out there... Surely you can handle some debate about it? Otherwise, why tell us?... It's a discussion forum?!

Or weren't we allowed to... Critique your opinion?!

Did you want everyone to blow smoke up your arse?! And say how great your opinion was?

IMO Nathan Burke is a StK great... And walks into any StK 'greatest team' and argue why.... You can argue why not

But don't f***ing whinge about being questioned on a public forum....

Don't pot kettle black
You have absolutely put me to the sword over the years on MY opinion.... So learn to take some critique if you're going to dish it!! And you don't sneer at me... You're down right nasty.

I still remember and won't forget!!

Hypocrite

[Dave McNamara]

No Shadow? Come off it Dave! A young Carl today would have every club tanking to get him as #1 draft pick. The prototype of the running ruckman and fearsome to boot.

Bob Murray a lock for full back, I watched every game he ever played. The only time I ever saw him lower his colours was at Glenferrie Oval when one P Hudson booted 6 in the last quarter after an entralling battle for the first three.

John McIntosh was already a great in the WAFL when he came (4 years after we signed him). He was an inital failure as a ruckman but thrived and showed his true class when switched to the half-forward and half-back lines. Ask any player who was on the receiving end of one of his swinging left-footed stab passes how good he was. A tragedy when he broke down.

Gellie, one great debut season and a few very good games a few seasons later does not make him a great of the past 50 years. Likewise, Rod Owen will only ever rate as a coodabeen. A lay down mazaire, though, should we ever select a Heartbreak Team of the Century.

Daryl Griffiths was an absolutely great player who was only 23 when he left the club (that wouldn't happen now!). I saw him play his first 2 minutes at Windy Hill as a 17 year old in 1963 as a full forward. A goal with his first kick in the first minute then stretchered off after being on the receiving end of a Bluey Shelton animal act. He came back 2 years later and was a star from then on.

Duperouzel, Burns, et al, were good players in the clubs darkest days. No place in my team for being the best of a rabble. Barry Lawrence was a great warrior in a once mighty team on the wain and had enough skills to play admirably in any position. Deserves his place.

But no Ditterich? Really Dave, go have a cold shower and put on some old videos. Preferably from the 1968 season when Shadow was unstoppable. Then, tell me if you'd prefer Carl to Tom Hickey in your team.

Hi Trev, hard to argue with your points. That's why I put in the caveats re lack of games played due to serious injury working against certain blokes being selected. (I'd still pick Graham Gellie, regardless. )

And you're right re Carl... again I mentioned that I never saw his best. The younger Carl highlights and stories remind me of a (way) more aggressive NickNat... very athletic, but ball handling skills nothing to write home about. But yes, I'd take Carl ahead of Hickey.

I did see some of those Murray/Hudson battles... IMHO Hudson was a freak, and how good he was seems to have been somewhat forgotten.



PS: I note you let me keep Billings in the side. (I expect to be adding Acres shortly as well.)

[BackFromUSA]

Lawrence over Fisher for mine.

As for Judson's opponents ... Matthews, Bartlett to name two from memory.

[BigMart]

Wow

Fisher
All Australian and twice B&F, twice B&F runner up and a Third.... In perhaps our consistently best era?

I rate Fisher only behind the two obvious ones since 2000.... He is a star defender

[Mr Magic]

[

quote="BigMart"]Magic, if you want to post it, put it out there... Surely you can handle some debate about it? Otherwise, why tell us?... It's a discussion forum?!

Or weren't we allowed to... Critique your opinion?!

Did you want everyone to blow smoke up your arse?! And say how great your opinion was?

IMO Nathan Burke is a StK great... And walks into any StK 'greatest team' and argue why.... You can argue why not

But don't f***ing whinge about being questioned on a public forum....

Don't pot kettle black
You have absolutely put me to the sword over the years on MY opinion.... So learn to take some critique if you're going to dish it!! And you don't sneer at me... You're down right nasty.

I still remember and won't forget!!
Hypocrite

I don't believe you are an idiot so therefore it only leaves the one possibility - you are deliberately avoiding addressing my complaint.

I'll spell it out for you (and everyone else) to see.
I have no objection to you voicing your opinion - I actually welcome you voicing your opinion.
What I object to is the manner you post your opinion.

And you are correct about 1 thing at least.
You have been doing it this way for years and I have been objecting to it for years.

So are we clear now?
It's your belittling, baiting and bullying posting style I object to
Not your opinion.

But in saying that, I freely admit that I rarely agree with your opinion on Football in general and St Kilda specifically.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

I rate John Mcintosh extremely high,I have followed the saints since 68 and he was a brilliant player who really had the ability to play in most positions , could kick just as well either foot ,top 4 or 5 Brownlow finish in 2 out of 3 seasons just absolute quality utility !

[evertonfc]

I think people get a little bit romantic about our 1980s players (lovable larrikans who battled the odds) and a little too crude about the recent crop (promised to deliver multiple flags but couldn't get one).

I'd find it terribly hard to include anyone from outside Barker, Lockett and Frawley. When Winmar, Burke, Loewe and Harvey emerged at the end of that era, I think it showed what a dramatic difference in class existed. They weren't streets but whole suburbs ahead.

I mean, the skill of Gilbert McAdam - some of the players mentioned in this thread couldn't lace his boots. If we looked at a one-season wonder, his 1991 campaign was so electrifying that I almost picked him on that alone.

Just an observation.

[White Winmar]

I'd like to throw in a couple of "coodabeens". Maurice O'Keefe and Russell Tweeddale. Both highly skilled Ballarat boys. Flashes in the pan.

[Trev from the Bush]

No Shadow? Come off it Dave! A young Carl today would have every club tanking to get him as #1 draft pick. The prototype of the running ruckman and fearsome to boot.

Bob Murray a lock for full back, I watched every game he ever played. The only time I ever saw him lower his colours was at Glenferrie Oval when one P Hudson booted 6 in the last quarter after an entralling battle for the first three.

John McIntosh was already a great in the WAFL when he came (4 years after we signed him). He was an inital failure as a ruckman but thrived and showed his true class when switched to the half-forward and half-back lines. Ask any player who was on the receiving end of one of his swinging left-footed stab passes how good he was. A tragedy when he broke down.

Gellie, one great debut season and a few very good games a few seasons later does not make him a great of the past 50 years. Likewise, Rod Owen will only ever rate as a coodabeen. A lay down mazaire, though, should we ever select a Heartbreak Team of the Century.

Daryl Griffiths was an absolutely great player who was only 23 when he left the club (that wouldn't happen now!). I saw him play his first 2 minutes at Windy Hill as a 17 year old in 1963 as a full forward. A goal with his first kick in the first minute then stretchered off after being on the receiving end of a Bluey Shelton animal act. He came back 2 years later and was a star from then on.

Duperouzel, Burns, et al, were good players in the clubs darkest days. No place in my team for being the best of a rabble. Barry Lawrence was a great warrior in a once mighty team on the wain and had enough skills to play admirably in any position. Deserves his place.

But no Ditterich? Really Dave, go have a cold shower and put on some old videos. Preferably from the 1968 season when Shadow was unstoppable. Then, tell me if you'd prefer Carl to Tom Hickey in your team.

Hi Trev, hard to argue with your points. That's why I put in the caveats re lack of games played due to serious injury working against certain blokes being selected. (I'd still pick Graham Gellie, regardless. )

And you're right re Carl... again I mentioned that I never saw his best. The younger Carl highlights and stories remind me of a (way) more aggressive NickNat... very athletic, but ball handling skills nothing to write home about. But yes, I'd take Carl ahead of Hickey.

I did see some of those Murray/Hudson battles... IMHO Hudson was a freak, and how good he was seems to have been somewhat forgotten.



PS: I note you let me keep Billings in the side. (I expect to be adding Acres shortly as well.)

Oh! BillingS! My mistake, I thought you meant Kevin Billing - specialist 20th man. Wore the dressing gown with great aplomb; not sure that Yabby ever knew e existed. 27 games in 8 seasons suggests he'd be a certainty in the Most Determined Team of the Past 50 Years!

G. Gellie would be a great mature-aged rookie in today's game. Think a Clinton Jones who could kick but had no knees. Good connect comparing Carl to NicNat except the latter would have an attack of the runs if he had to battle The Shadow

[Trev from the Bush]

I'd like to throw in a couple of "coodabeens". Maurice O'Keefe and Russell Tweeddale. Both highly skilled Ballarat boys. Flashes in the pan.

O'Keefe a good blast from the past. Tweedale, if I remember correctly, was a ginger-haired graduate of the Clinton Jones Kicking Academy. As such, NO!

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Backs:Burke,Murray,Howell
Half/B:Barker,Roberts,Goddard
Centre:Winmar,Stewart,Cunningham
Half Fwds:Young,Roo,Doc
Forwards:Milne,Plugger,Loewe
Rucks:Ditterich,Harvey,Steven
Res:Mcintosh,Hayes,Smith,Neale
Emg:Burns,Dal Santo,Griffith,Fisher,Gehrig,G.Mcadam

[bergholt]

Backs:Burke,Murray,Howell
Half/B:Barker,Roberts,Goddard
Centre:Winmar,Stewart,Cunningham
Half Fwds:Young,Roo,Doc
Forwards:Milne,Plugger,Loewe
Rucks:Ditterich,Harvey,Steven
Res:Mcintosh,Hayes,Smith,Neale
Emg:Burns,Dal Santo,Griffith,Fisher,Gehrig,G.Mcadam

Steven on the field ahead of Lenny! Controversial.