Most valuable commodities

[BigMart]

No

The forum is poorer having Irrelevant posts about me that are opinion based and not sure who could care less

I
Question remains .... Is some one close because the made a short list, yet could be a mile off the winner? I suggest it's about winning the position.

If a person finished 6th in the final of a 100m Final are they close to winning a Gold ... Even if Usain Bolt wins by half a second? In essence finishing second is still a longway from finishing first

Whilst you are closer than 1000 professional sprinters around the world... You're a mile off the Gold

Whilst Jack is certainly in the AFLs top 50 IMO he is nowhere near the top two.... In that bracket you go from A Grade to elite... It a big jump

If you can't understand that argument... < Edited by mods. Poster warned for abusive language>

Old mate

Absolutely correct IMO of your rating of Jack's level and if we were a gun team .... He'd be our 3rd banana in the midfield and dominating like Beams and Sdebottom do...

[plugger66]

No

The forum is poorer having Irrelevant posts about me that are opinion based and not sure who could care less

I
Question remains .... Is some one close because the made a short list, yet could be a mile off the winner? I suggest it's about winning the position.

If a person finished 6th in the final of a 100m Final are they close to winning a Gold ... Even if Usain Bolt wins by half a second? In essence finishing second is still a longway from finishing first

Whilst you are closer than 1000 professional sprinters around the world... You're a mile off the Gold

Whilst Jack is certainly in the AFLs top 50 IMO he is nowhere near the top two.... In that bracket you go from A Grade to elite... It a big jump

If you can't understand that argument... Your low functioning IMO

Old mate

Absolutely correct IMO of your rating of Jack's level and if we were a gun team .... He'd be our 3rd banana in the midfield and dominating like Beams and Sdebottom do...

It doesnt matter where he is placed in the team because you can have one good year and be AA so thats out the door already. You said he wasnt close to AA. he was in fact in the top 40 so he may have been 23 or higher. he was very close and a positive saints supporter would have said he was very close to AA. BM did you pick the 22 AA because if you didnt that means players you rated 23 to 40 made the AA side. i guessing that is the case. Even if he was 40th he was close to AA because he made the final squad. An emergency is close to making a side. matter of fact some play after an injury in warm ups. Thats how close they are. I have no idea why they bother with second placings in any sport. they arent going to win.

[dragit]

The very point of having an AA squad, is to show which players are close…

Jack wasn't even close to AA...

This is just getting embarrassing for you now Marto, give it away.

[plugger66]

The very point of having an AA squad, is to show which players are close…

Jack wasn't even close to AA...

This is just getting embarrassing for you now Marto, give it away.

This year they are going to say the squad is 40 and of those 18 arent close to AA.

[BigMart]

Sorry

Meant to be top 20

Not

Top 2

How could this be embarrassing.... Two different POV .... Suggesting there Is proof Jack was close to knocking off one of the incumbent AA mids is purely an opinion... My opinion is that he is not in their ball park.

So whilst he's a long way in front of a lot of GOPs, good players, Fringe Player, and developing kids...... He's a long way off the the very best.

Ablett, Watson, Selwood, Michell, Pendlebury, Swan, Fyfe, Kennedy... Even Goddard, Bartel, Cotchin, Jack, Danger
These are the games proven elite imo

[dragit]

The very point of having an AA squad, is to show which players are close…

Jack wasn't even close to AA...

This is just getting embarrassing for you now Marto, give it away.

This year they are going to say the squad is 40 and of those 18 arent close to AA.

That's a good idea, like an encouragement award…

Squad rounded out by the likes of Savage, Renouf, Gawn, Van Unen & Taberner.

[BigMart]

Depends on the gap Dragit

ATM
If the last mid spot was between Tom Rocliff and Dane Beams.... It'd be a close call

If it was between
Josh Kennedy and Mark Murphy.... It would not be

[plugger66]

Sorry

Meant to be top 20

Not

Top 2

How could this be embarrassing.... Two different POV .... Suggesting there Is proof Jack was close to knocking off one of the incumbent AA mids is purely an opinion... My opinion is that he is not in their ball park.

So whilst he's a long way in front of a lot of GOPs, good players, Fringe Player, and developing kids...... He's a long way off the the very best.

Ablett, Watson, Selwood, Michell, Pendlebury, Swan, Fyfe, Kennedy... Even Goddard, Bartel, Cotchin, Jack, Danger
These are the games proven elite imo

I dont think you are getting this at all BM. its not whether he is better than these players, its whether he was better last season than some of these players. Cotchin did not make the squad so Jack was better and much close to making it than him. Same with bartel and BJ. He was closer than them as well. <atter of fact he was very close to making it. He was rated in the top 5% of players last year and because of midfield depth probably top 3%. Is Bartel, Cotchin and BJ only good players? And did you pick the 22 AA players?

[Bunk_Moreland]

No

The forum is poorer having Irrelevant posts about me that are opinion based and not sure who could care less

I
Question remains .... Is some one close because the made a short list, yet could be a mile off the winner? I suggest it's about winning the position.

If a person finished 6th in the final of a 100m Final are they close to winning a Gold ... Even if Usain Bolt wins by half a second? In essence finishing second is still a longway from finishing first

Whilst you are closer than 1000 professional sprinters around the world... You're a mile off the Gold

Whilst Jack is certainly in the AFLs top 50 IMO he is nowhere near the top two.... In that bracket you go from A Grade to elite... It a big jump

If you can't understand that argument... Your low functioning IMO

Old mate

Absolutely correct IMO of your rating of Jack's level and if we were a gun team .... He'd be our 3rd banana in the midfield and dominating like Beams and Sdebottom do...

Another rant and polemic.

Fact is Steven was in the squad of 40 for AA.

Any rational person can surmise from this that he was close to being named in the AA squad.

All you do is spin because you have been proven wrong.

But you will carry on and on and on and on with your straw man arguments that hold absolutely no water.

It is quite simple. You had no part in the selection, you have no idea where Steven was placed and how close he was.

You are making things up saying "he was not even close". You would not have a clue.

So stop spamming the forum with spin and straw man gibberish. You are lowering the standard of the forum and I will report you if you continue to troll.

[gringo]

Like I thought Goddard was a waste of the number one pick early on and that Jason Blake would be lucky to play 20 games sometimes you just call it wrong. Steven isn't a spud and Hickey looks okay. Trying to deny it sounds like some guy who refuses to admit the earth is round even after sailing all the way round. Cripps might still make it too. It doesn't matter it's past, make more outlandish statements and no one notices your bad calls previously. Works for me any way.

[The_Merchant]

In my opinion he was close BigMart regardless of which way you look at it. I think you are forgetting how good jack was last year. His year was quite comparable Dan Hannerbery, Kieran Jack, Ryan Griffen, Jared McVeigh and Sam Mitchell. I didn't see too much of Travis Boak, so can't comment on him. Remember AA is on one seasons performance, and in my opinion Jack was close to these guys who all made the final team. Maybe I am a little biased because I barrack for the saints.

[plugger66]

In my opinion he was close BigMart regardless of which way you look at it. I think you are forgetting how good jack was last year. His year was quite comparable Dan Hannerbery, Kieran Jack, Ryan Griffen, Jared McVeigh and Sam Mitchell. I didn't see too much of Travis Boak, so can't comment on him. Remember AA is on one seasons performance, and in my opinion Jack was close to these guys who all made the final team. Maybe I am a little biased because I barrack for the saints.

Actually looking at the stats he was even better than I thought. he must have been very close to AA based on last years form. He is caparable to everyone but the very best like Ablett, pendlebury, selwood and watson. There arent many who would be better than them

[BigMart]

Gringo

Maybe you are biased,

Or maybe that's your opinion and it may well be correct...

My opinion was he wasn't close to the level of last years AA mids.... I think some have rose coloured glasses, some give him votes most regardless, because he's their favourite player perhaps?

The problem is

I have my opinion, and people want me to change it? Or admit I'm wrong? Not sure how an opinion can be wrong, and why I should accept another's.

People are trying to prove me wrong, some are even getting personal, however the fact is .... I won't succumb to peer pressure like a 14yo girl
I've stated my arguments and have made my point several times... And been consistent on my argument.

It may well be wrong? But in my mind, it is the opinion I have formed.... I don't let others tell me what I think

Especially anonymous people, no offence... But I have no idea why someone who for all I know has little experience .... Form my opinion. I will defend my opinion... Purely by explaining the rationale... Don't like it, that's completely fine
Try to tell me I have to accept your viewpoint and mine is 'pathetic'

P66
I'm used to your typical attempts to redirect, ridicule, patronise, personalise and in particular attack credibility.
But it is a waste of effort
Whilst I'll reply... I do take little notice

Bunk
I have never argued that Steven was in the squad of 40
Nor, that. Those players are closer to AA selection than the rest of the comp... But who was the 41st player?
Fact is
You don't know if he was 39th ranked or 23rd?
I suggest he is a fair bit from the 22nd
That is what I believe
He is not in the same level as the games elite.

And no one gives a rats clacker what you think of me. Argue the point

[plugger66]

Gringo

Maybe you are biased,

Or maybe that's your opinion and it may well be correct...

My opinion was he wasn't close to the level of last years AA mids.... I think some have rose coloured glasses, some give him votes most regardless, because he's their favourite player perhaps?

The problem is

I have my opinion, and people want me to change it? Or admit I'm wrong? Not sure how an opinion can be wrong, and why I should accept another's.

People are trying to prove me wrong, some are even getting personal, however the fact is .... I won't succumb to peer pressure like a 14yo girl
I've stated my arguments and have made my point several times... And been consistent on my argument.

It may well be wrong? But in my mind, it is the opinion I have formed.... I don't let others tell me what I think

Especially anonymous people, no offence... But I have no idea why someone who for all I know has little experience .... Form my opinion. I will defend my opinion... Purely by explaining the rationale... Don't like it, that's completely fine
Try to tell me I have to accept your viewpoint and mine is 'pathetic'

P66
I'm used to your typical attempts to redirect, ridicule, patronise, personalise and in particular attack credibility.
But it is a waste of effort
Whilst I'll reply... I do take little notice

Bunk
I have never argued that Steven was in the squad of 40
Nor, that. Those players are closer to AA selection than the rest of the comp... But who was the 41st player?
Fact is
You don't know if he was 39th ranked or 23rd?
I suggest he is a fair bit from the 22nd
That is what I believe
He is not in the same level as the games elite.

And no one gives a rats clacker what you think of me. Argue the point

BM you take plenty of notice. You put me on ignore because you said you couldnt handle my posts but you still looked. You took me off ignore because you couldnt handle not looking at my posts. The problem you have is you make statements which is fine. Everyone is allowed them but when proven the statement is wrong you can never say you are wrong and if anything go even further to try and make an incorrect statement correct. When it was proven here that jack was very close to AA you came up with some other method why he wasnt. i suggest you look at stats from some of the mids that made AA last year to see how really close he was. And that first line you wroye about me is incorrect. I gather you did it in front of a mirror.

[bergholt]

I have my opinion, and people want me to change it? Or admit I'm wrong? Not sure how an opinion can be wrong...

Of course an opinion can be wrong. It's my "opinion" that Jason Blake should have won a Brownlow Medal. That's objectively and provably false. All opinions aren't equal, some are completely unsupported by fact which makes them more like trolling.

[Cairnsman]

[quote="BigMarthe's ingo

Maybe you are biased,

Or maybe that's your opinion and it may well be correct...

My opinion was he wasn't close to the level of last years AA mids.... I think some have rose coloured glasses, some give him votes most regardless, because he's their favourite player perhaps?

The problem is

I have my opinion, and people want me to change it? Or admit I'm wrong? Not sure how an opinion can be wrong, and why I should accept another's.

People are trying to prove me wrong, some are even getting personal, however the fact is .... I won't succumb to peer pressure like a 14yo girl
I've stated my arguments and have made my point several times... And been consistent on my argument.

It may well be wrong? But in my mind, it is the opinion I have formed.... I don't let others tell me what I think

Especially anonymous people, no offence... But I have no idea why someone who for all I know has little experience .... Form my opinion. I will defend my opinion... Purely by explaining the rationale... Don't like it, that's completely fine
Try to tell me I have to accept your viewpoint and mine is 'pathetic'

P66
I'm used to your typical attempts to redirect, ridicule, patronise, personalise and in particular attack credibility.
But it is a waste of effort
Whilst I'll reply... I do take little notice

Bunk
I have never argued that Steven was in the squad of 40
Nor, that. Those players are closer to AA selection than the rest of the comp... But who was the 41st player?
Fact is
You don't know if he was 39th ranked or 23rd?
I suggest he is a fair bit from the 22nd
That is what I believe
He is not in the same level as the games elite.

And no one gives a rats clacker what you think of me. Argue the point

BM you take plenty of notice. You put me on ignore because you said you couldnt handle my posts but you still looked. You took me off ignore because you couldnt handle not looking at my posts. The problem you have is you make statements which is fine. Everyone is allowed them but when proven the statement is wrong you can never say you are wrong and if anything go even further to try and make an incorrect statement correct. When it was proven here that jack was very close to AA you came up with some other method why he wasnt. i suggest you look at stats from some of the mids that made AA last year to see how really close he was. And that first line you wroye about me is incorrect. I gather you did it in front of a mirror.[/quote]

Whether they love you or hate you, you are compelling reading.

[Cairnsman]

[quote="BigMart]

Maybe you are biased,

Or maybe that's your opinion and it may well be correct...

My opinion was he wasn't close to the level of last years AA mids.... I think some have rose coloured glasses, some give him votes most regardless, because he's their favourite player perhaps?

The problem is

I have my opinion, and people want me to change it? Or admit I'm wrong? Not sure how an opinion can be wrong, and why I should accept another's.

People are trying to prove me wrong, some are even getting personal, however the fact is .... I won't succumb to peer pressure like a 14yo girl
I've stated my arguments and have made my point several times... And been consistent on my argument.

It may well be wrong? But in my mind, it is the opinion I have formed.... I don't let others tell me what I think

Especially anonymous people, no offence... But I have no idea why someone who for all I know has little experience .... Form my opinion. I will defend my opinion... Purely by explaining the rationale... Don't like it, that's completely fine
Try to tell me I have to accept your viewpoint and mine is 'pathetic'

P66
I'm used to your typical attempts to redirect, ridicule, patronise, personalise and in particular attack credibility.
But it is a waste of effort
Whilst I'll reply... I do take little notice

Bunk
I have never argued that Steven was in the squad of 40
Nor, that. Those players are closer to AA selection than the rest of the comp... But who was the 41st player?
Fact is
You don't know if he was 39th ranked or 23rd?
I suggest he is a fair bit from the 22nd
That is what I believe
He is not in the same level as the games elite.

And no one gives a rats clacker what you think of me. Argue the point

BM you take plenty of notice. You put me on ignore because you said you couldnt handle my posts but you still looked. You took me off ignore because you couldnt handle not looking at my posts. The problem you have is you make statements which is fine. Everyone is allowed them but when proven the statement is wrong you can never say you are wrong and if anything go even further to try and make an incorrect statement correct. When it was proven here that jack was very close to AA you came up with some other method why he wasnt. i suggest you look at stats from some of the mids that made AA last year to see how really close he was. And that first line you wroye about me is incorrect. I gather you did it in front of a mirror.[/quote][/quote]

Whether they love you or hate you, you are compelling reading.

[BigMart]

I put you on ignore because you stalked me

Unfortunately when you are quoted, or when I went on SS before I made a reply and was asked to lo in....

Who proved that Jack was close to being picked over any incumbent 2013 AA.... You stated it was proved...

Am of of the opinion he is, and was not at the level of any of the players picked and a few more not pick, thus me forming an opinion in my mind he is a little bit off elite.... I don't give a toss if you think otherwise

Stats... Wonder how many of those mids you mentioned were not tagged most weeks? NDS or Joe Montagna and even Lenny were tagged before Jack for the majority of last year, and he was generally head to head... He has sloppy disposal which is obvious and his decision making (ie kicking short to a contest or playing on under pressure) is not at a high stand in comparison to more composed players...

[plugger66]

I put you on ignore because you stalked me

Unfortunately when you are quoted, or when I went on SS before I made a reply and was asked to lo in....

Who proved that Jack was close to being picked over any incumbent 2013 AA.... You stated it was proved...

Am of of the opinion he is, and was not at the level of any of the players picked and a few more not pick, thus me forming an opinion in my mind he is a little bit off elite.... I don't give a toss if you think otherwise

Stats... Wonder how many of those mids you mentioned were not tagged most weeks? NDS or Joe Montagna and even Lenny were tagged before Jack for the majority of last year, and he was generally head to head... He has sloppy disposal which is obvious and his decision making (ie kicking short to a contest or playing on under pressure) is not at a high stand in comparison to more composed players...

BM it was proved because he was rated 23rd to 40th. I know that maybe hard to understand but it means you are close. Closer than Cotchin BJ and another player you mentioned for some reason i dont understand. I have asked you many times BM but I will ask again did you pick the 22 AA. I doubt it as i doubt any of us did but it does mean that players you rated 23 to 40th got in the side. Does that mean you would have also said they werent close even though they actually made the side. Why do they bother with a final 40. My guess is they are the 40 best players for positions in the AA side and that would also mean they are very close to selection. Anyone who continues to argue that you arent close to AA but make the final 40 is surely just having a lend and is baiting and just cant say they were wrong for making a comment that they werent close to AA. zGot no idea was elite has to do with it either. Can you explain that. And I think you give a toss because you cant stop replying. Unlike you i care what you say because you usually have a go at our club and the players. Thats why I care. I can admit it.
BM I never stalked you by the way. if you posted crap IMO like Jack wasnt close to AA I called you out on it. I still havent worked out why you dont still have me on ignore. Not all my posts are quoted. matter of fact many arent. You should try it again. And finally Jacks kicking and decision making improved rapidly over the season. maybe your bias just cant see it.

[BigMart]

I put you on ignore because you stalked me... You are the one whom replies generally. And immediately it must be noted...

Unfortunately when you were on ignore, every time you were quoted, or when I went on SS before I made a reply and was asked to lo in.... Your constant replies were visible... Even though you were aware you were on ignore? Strange?

Oh,
And probably get over the god complex... Your assumption that someone couldn't handle not reading your gripping yet predictable, devils advocate, apologist, antagonistic, sarcastic garb on SS is dripping with misplaced arrogance... I love talking StK... You are a necessary evil...

Btw
Who proved that Jack was close to being picked over any incumbent 2013 AA.... You stated it was proved...

Am of of the opinion he is, and was not at the level of any of the players picked and a few more not pick, thus me forming an opinion in my mind he is a little bit off elite therefore not close to AA.... I don't give a toss if you think otherwise. But in the next group
My opinion remains, not sure that you proved too much?!

Stats... Wonder how many of those mids you mentioned were not tagged most weeks? NDS or Joe Montagna and even Lenny were tagged before Jack for the majority of last year, and he was generally head to head... He has sloppy disposal which is obvious and his decision making (ie kicking short to a contest or playing on under pressure) is not at a high stand in comparison to more composed players...

Jack had a great 2013, no doubt... IMO the others better in better teams...

How can you prove Jack was close to the level of say Travis Boak?
He was the leader of the most improved team... He averaged over 25 a game, often tagged, with 20 goals... Was runner up B&F in a finals team, the winner was also AA

And on that, more than stats are necessary when deciding the value of a player... Otherwise Kane Cornes has been a better player career wise than Lenny?

Jack stood out more in our struggling team, got more midfield minutes, was the target at stoppages quite often and he played well.

Greg Burns was a standout for StK in the mid 80's possibly played state of origin? But was not an elite player.

Anyways,
I'll leave it there... CBF

[dragit]

Anyways,
I'll leave it there... CBF

Oh don't stop now, you've nearly won everyone over in that being in the AA squad of 40 of does not make you close to AA.

[plugger66]

I put you on ignore because you stalked me... You are the one whom replies generally. And immediately it must be noted...

Unfortunately when you were on ignore, every time you were quoted, or when I went on SS before I made a reply and was asked to lo in.... Your constant replies were visible... Even though you were aware you were on ignore? Strange?

Oh,
And probably get over the god complex... Your assumption that someone couldn't handle not reading your gripping yet predictable, devils advocate, apologist, antagonistic, sarcastic garb on SS is dripping with misplaced arrogance... I love talking StK... You are a necessary evil...

Btw
Who proved that Jack was close to being picked over any incumbent 2013 AA.... You stated it was proved...

Am of of the opinion he is, and was not at the level of any of the players picked and a few more not pick, thus me forming an opinion in my mind he is a little bit off elite therefore not close to AA.... I don't give a toss if you think otherwise. But in the next group
My opinion remains, not sure that you proved too much?!

Stats... Wonder how many of those mids you mentioned were not tagged most weeks? NDS or Joe Montagna and even Lenny were tagged before Jack for the majority of last year, and he was generally head to head... He has sloppy disposal which is obvious and his decision making (ie kicking short to a contest or playing on under pressure) is not at a high stand in comparison to more composed players...

Jack had a great 2013, no doubt... IMO the others better in better teams...

How can you prove Jack was close to the level of say Travis Boak?
He was the leader of the most improved team... He averaged over 25 a game, often tagged, with 20 goals... Was runner up B&F in a finals team, the winner was also AA

And on that, more than stats are necessary when deciding the value of a player... Otherwise Kane Cornes has been a better player career wise than Lenny?

Jack stood out more in our struggling team, got more midfield minutes, was the target at stoppages quite often and he played well.

Greg Burns was a standout for StK in the mid 80's possibly played state of origin? But was not an elite player.

Anyways,
I'll leave it there... CBF

BM there seems to be a repeat of most things. The new one that interests me is the personal attack, one you often say i do to you. i have never thought anyone is interested in what i read but common sense suggests that if you keep replying like you do but then saying you dont care is all very weird. If I dont care what people say, as you claim about my posts, then I couldnt be stuffed replying but you keep replying. And nearly everything else you said it that sentance seems very much like you. i can assure you I aint arrogant and dont post arrogantly. i even do the right thing and quote people. Now if i as going to talk arrogance then maybe I wouldnt quote or even mention names. No idea on the Travis Boak thing. Only probably saw him 6 or 7 times and couldnt remember him getting tagged. I dont take notes to remeber that stuff. I do remember you saying you didnt watch the opposition much if at all. Interesting. And if stats mean nothing then I expect you wont quote them again. Interesting that they even bothered putting them in the article on the top 40 list.

Anyway back on topic. jack is a valuable commodity and last season was very close to AA as he made the final 40. maybe he even was in the last 23. He even had a better year than BJ and Cotchin who are both rated very highly. And BJ won a B&F in a finals side that was later put down to 9th. Amazing what words can do.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Anyways,
I'll leave it there... CBF

Oh don't stop now, you've nearly won everyone over in that being in the AA squad of 40 of does not make you close to AA.

THis is the crux of the matter.

FACT Jack was in the AA squad of 40

By definition he therefore was close to AA selection

FACT BigMart made a definitive statement that Jack was "not even close" to being selected, even though he was in the squad of 40.

FACT BigMart was not on the AA selection committee so has no idea if Jack was "note even close" to being in the final AA squad

FACT as someone above said, everyone can have an opinion, but when the said opinion is refuted by logic and facts, the holder of said opinion cant whine like they have been victimised.

FACT this forum and many of its toxic posters have not learned the new regime and rules.

[whiskers3614]

Amazing that we have new rules more moderators and yet a thread like this can go round in circles for two or three days and still remain on the main board!

[BigMart]

Fact
I made a Statement... Definitive?? That's your take on it?!

Fact
Never said that he wasn't in the list of 40... Said he is not close to those picked IMO

Fact
You were not on the AA committee either

Fact

Fact is your reply is personnel, derogatory and your last 10 replies have been about how you disregard my opinion. You can do that of course, but to boast about it and beat your chest is a bit silly. Again, just stay on topic.

If the forum is as you say has toxic posters, why join in?

It's interesting

You know a lot about the forum and me? For a recent joiner, I've never come across you before... Or have I? An old buddy of mine threw the towel in, and I've been awaiting his return.

If you are new?
History lesson, been posting since 2001, not that means too much, but have encountered many tough responders in the past... Legendary Saintsationalists... They often put me to the sword on issues... But never (well except one or two who mentioned my family) has one intimidated me, or successfully patronised me with any effect.

I post exactly what I want, it's not always right or easy to hear... Because of its frankness or emotive tone. But at the end of the day... My opinion is exactly as rightful as yours and
COUNTS FOR NOTHING