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BigMart wrote:I really rate ruckmen if they are good footballers....
I think the litmus test is, would they be a good player without their height... Or are they good at using their height
Players who are 6'6" or more, but are really only on an AFL list because they are tall... Are useless IMO
They need strings to their bow.
I know what you're getting at Marto, but it just doesn't work like that.
If you took 8-10 inches off the top 20 ruckmen in the comp, I'm not sure if any would get a game.
It's an unusual highly specialised role, primarily there to set-up play from stopages… if you can get a player to do this and also play well around the ground, even better… Going forward, I'm sure all clubs will be aiming to have key position types playing in the ruck, with mad skills and agility.
Total football Mart, you be able to do it all to some degree. Lucky we don't have any 6 6 nothing's,. Our tall young have some sort of potential about them.
Longer is my preference ATM as he appears to have the footy smarts. Our other rucks aren't as one dimensional as Warmock so I assume you think our list management is on the right path by not having warnock?
BigMart wrote:I really rate ruckmen if they are good footballers....
I think the litmus test is, would they be a good player without their height... Or are they good at using their height
Players who are 6'6" or more, but are really only on an AFL list because they are tall... Are useless IMO
They need strings to their bow.
I know what you're getting at Marto, but it just doesn't work like that.
If you took 8-10 inches off the top 20 ruckmen in the comp, I'm not sure if any would get a game.
It's an unusual highly specialised role, primarily there to set-up play from stopages… if you can get a player to do this and also play well around the ground, even better… Going forward, I'm sure all clubs will be aiming to have key position types playing in the ruck, with mad skills and agility.
I don't think their WAG's would like it either!
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
Interesting BM that you bring this up with your romance with Longer and your seemingly hatred of Hickey. You still seem to bang on about Longer who has taken one mark in the last 3 games but have this hatred of Hickry. Its all very incosistant from a supporter without bias for either.l
Anyone else think Longer was pretty unlucky not to get paid a couple of big contested grabs Friday night? One in the goal square was clearly controlle long enough.
I don't hate Hickey... Why do you suggest such a thing? I don't know him whatsoever?!
I don't rate him, that a different thing...
Billy is 18 months younger and has been on an AFL list two years less.... But even with that, he is playing poorly... But I like his aggression. His lack of confidence to demand the ball, and go for a clunk or two, or kick when in possession will get better as time goes by... But the boy is in over his head a bit ATM.
Longer is a bash and crash Ruckman.... As a kid a tougher gig
Hickey is a jumping Ruckman .... More loose ball posession which o
plugger66 wrote:Interesting BM that you bring this up with your romance with Longer and your seemingly hatred of Hickey. You still seem to bang on about Longer who has taken one mark in the last 3 games but have this hatred of Hickry. Its all very incosistant from a supporter without bias for either.l
plugger66 wrote:Interesting BM that you bring this up with your romance with Longer and your seemingly hatred of Hickey. You still seem to bang on about Longer who has taken one mark in the last 3 games but have this hatred of Hickry. Its all very incosistant from a supporter without bias for either.l
I don't hate Hickey... Why do you suggest such a thing? I don't know him whatsoever?!
I don't rate him, that a different thing...
Billy is 18 months younger and has been on an AFL list two years less.... But even with that, he is playing poorly... But I like his aggression. His lack of confidence to demand the ball, and go for a clunk or two, or kick when in possession will get better as time goes by... But the boy is in over his head a bit ATM.
Longer is a bash and crash Ruckman.... As a kid a tougher gig
Hickey is a jumping Ruckman .... More loose ball posession which o
BM hate in a football term. Obviously you dont know him. I dont think anyone who knows him would constantly bag him even if he isnt the subject. Have no idea what the 18 months younger means. We are talking now. Longer may make a good ruckman as may Hickey but as of now Hickey is better around the ground IMO and helps our side more than Longer. God knows how both could ever play in the one side though.
I havent been following BMs rant on ruckmen but last time I looked he was still claiming McEvoy was a champion and future Captain etc etc.
Is still the case?
Cos I notice McEvoy has been recently named in lists of failed recruits.
Hits and Misses
HIts:
1. Dal Santo - Leading the North b&f?
2. Franklin - Starting to take grabs again and is looking fit, very scary.
3. Matt White - Wow, a different player after leaving the rabble.
4. Polec - Again wow, what a recruit. Was so highly rated as a junior so great to see him progress
5. Mumford - I know he has had his injuries but GWS are a different side when he's playing
Misses:
1. Sylvia - MIA
2. Mcevoy - Ave 21 hit outs and 12 touches a game, not even close to what the good ruckman are doing
3. Hampson - Richmond can't develop talented guys, why this guy would be a good pick up is beyond belief
4. Thomas - Price tag does not justify output, could get better but very ordinary thus far
5. White - Pies would have been hoping for more, shown glimpses but been a disappointment
Con Gorozidis wrote:I havent been following BMs rant on ruckmen but last time I looked he was still claiming McEvoy was a champion and future Captain etc etc.
2. Mcevoy - Ave 21 hit outs and 12 touches a game, not even close to what the good ruckman are doing
Con Gorozidis wrote:I havent been following BMs rant on ruckmen but last time I looked he was still claiming McEvoy was a champion and future Captain etc etc.
Is still the case?
Cos I notice McEvoy has been recently named in lists of failed recruits.
Hits and Misses
HIts:
1. Dal Santo - Leading the North b&f?
2. Franklin - Starting to take grabs again and is looking fit, very scary.
3. Matt White - Wow, a different player after leaving the rabble.
4. Polec - Again wow, what a recruit. Was so highly rated as a junior so great to see him progress
5. Mumford - I know he has had his injuries but GWS are a different side when he's playing
Misses:
1. Sylvia - MIA
2. Mcevoy - Ave 21 hit outs and 12 touches a game, not even close to what the good ruckman are doing
3. Hampson - Richmond can't develop talented guys, why this guy would be a good pick up is beyond belief
4. Thomas - Price tag does not justify output, could get better but very ordinary thus far
5. White - Pies would have been hoping for more, shown glimpses but been a disappointment
Would agree McEvoy has been disappointing, but any hits and miss list that doesn't have Tyson as a massive hit and Savage as the number one miss isn't worth the paper it's written on..
The I don't rate ruckmen unless they are good footballers argument is an interesting one.
Its hard to argue against but then again so are the views below.
The I don't rate small forwards unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate midfielders unless they are good footballers.
The I don't rate tall forwards unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate utilities unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate footballers unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate witches hats unless they are good footballers
Con Gorozidis wrote:I havent been following BMs rant on ruckmen but last time I looked he was still claiming McEvoy was a champion and future Captain etc etc.
Is still the case?
Cos I notice McEvoy has been recently named in lists of failed recruits.
Hits and Misses
HIts:
1. Dal Santo - Leading the North b&f?
2. Franklin - Starting to take grabs again and is looking fit, very scary.
3. Matt White - Wow, a different player after leaving the rabble.
4. Polec - Again wow, what a recruit. Was so highly rated as a junior so great to see him progress
5. Mumford - I know he has had his injuries but GWS are a different side when he's playing
Misses:
1. Sylvia - MIA
2. Mcevoy - Ave 21 hit outs and 12 touches a game, not even close to what the good ruckman are doing
3. Hampson - Richmond can't develop talented guys, why this guy would be a good pick up is beyond belief
4. Thomas - Price tag does not justify output, could get better but very ordinary thus far
5. White - Pies would have been hoping for more, shown glimpses but been a disappointment
Who was that moron who wrote that. Ben hasnt been a hit or a miss. Ok. Thomas considering his ability has been a hit and Probably White as well. Number one on hit should be Tyson. has been fantastic. franklin has been good but that is what was ecpected. Sylvia is cearly the biggest miss.
Sobraz wrote:
and Savage as the number one miss isn't worth the paper it's written on..
Savage No 1 miss???
Savage was not in the Hawks best 22.
While we think of him as disappointing, and he has been, the reality is that to succeed with us he had to improve. We hoped he would take the next step, and he has not as yet.
Players like Dal just had to produce the same level to be good.
Dal was a sure bet. Savage was always a gamble.
Ben for picks with Savage as steak knives is still a great deal for us even if Savage never plays regular football with us.
Pretty sure by end of next year, if not already that most Hawks fans will be regretting the deal.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
So Macs worth as a 'hit' or 'miss' has been decided on stats? Irrelevant !hit out stats at that.
Not to mention he has been injured during the course of two of his games thus skewing his averages. 2 out of 7 I believe?!
Silly analysis.
He hasen't been a hit or a miss IMO
Going on the selections.... It won't be a win or a lose... But as it sits it works well both ways
They got there ruckmen in place of Bailey for the now... Plus a future leader and 8 year player.
And the mid they were after for pick 24 that will replace Mitch
We got two future Mids... One a replacement for Lenny Hayes and one to replace the loss of Dal Santo
So swing and roundabouts
I agree plugger... They cannot play together, nor could Ben and Tom
And agree Hickey ATM is better than the poorly performed <20 gamer Longer
But if you compare Longer 8ppg 29ho... To Hickey 2013 10ppg 11ho... It's
But this year at 12 ppg and 25ho Hickey is ahead.... As he should be
We actually have 4 young ruckmen (only) on the list ATM none can play elsewhere? But Pierce is a speculative, Holmes a stab in the dark
But why we spent pick 9 + pick 12 on ruckmen..... Which turned out to be pick 12 and Pick 25... I don't know.
The decision to trade for a #1 Ruckman with our compo pick when we had that position covered was odd. And you don't look at picks that high for back up players IMO
MaCEvoy is not a dud, nor is he a star. He is an honest Ruckman who can drop back read the game and take a grab... Or be a contest coming out of the back half on a slow play
So over talking about Mac.
Hes no dud hes no star. Hes a good honest trier.
I guess the positive from all of this is Billy Longer can never complain about lack of opportunity. Gets an entire 100 minutes this week. Now if he can just take a mark or two it will be a great step up for the kid.
james rose wrote:The I don't rate ruckmen unless they are good footballers argument is an interesting one.
Its hard to argue against but then again so are the views below.
The I don't rate small forwards unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate midfielders unless they are good footballers.
The I don't rate tall forwards unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate utilities unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate footballers unless they are good footballers
The I don't rate witches hats unless they are good footballers
Haha love it.
Every five or six rounds a ruckman has a dominate game but his team loses the clearances, and game.
Relative of course, but just like the AFL .... ONE tap out of FOUR/FIVE leads to a direct clearance... Two others are neutralised or go the other way if an opposition mid sharks the tap. Unlike a basketball tip, players can set up man on man at a ruck contest ....
That effort to mock was pretty lame
It is the only position on the ground where a player will get a game due to his height? For instance; Rob Warnock, a horrible footballer skill wise, but will play 150 games because he's 204cm
He won 70 hit outs, yet couldn't even influence the game result.
Dominant ruckmen are great. But not because the win hit out, but because they are good at using their physical size to impact the game around the ground, at stoppages, across HB or go forward and goal.
Best Ruckman IMO
G.Farmer superstar
S.Madden 575 goals and a mobile, huge mark
D.Cox racks up midfielder numbers
John Nicholls used his sheer size to dominate
J.Stynes as above
G.Dempsey most marks in the game
Remember you MUST quote or reference your posts with a NAME!
I do suppose I am 'he' in your above post
What don't I get? That
1/ Ben is a good footballer, even though we traded him
2/ hit out stats are weak
3/ we traded for a second young #1 Ruckman with a high DP (twice)
4/ we got unders for Mac, but paid unders for Longer
Relative of course, but just like the AFL .... ONE tap out of FOUR/FIVE leads to a direct clearance... Two others are neutralised or go the other way if an opposition mid sharks the tap. Unlike a basketball tip, players can set up man on man at a ruck contest ....
That effort to mock was pretty lame
It is the only position on the ground where a player will get a game due to his height? For instance; Rob Warnock, a horrible footballer skill wise, but will play 150 games because he's 204cm
He won 70 hit outs, yet couldn't even influence the game result.
Dominant ruckmen are great. But not because the win hit out, but because they are good at using their physical size to impact the game around the ground, at stoppages, across HB or go forward and goal.
Best Ruckman IMO
G.Farmer superstar
S.Madden 575 goals and a mobile, huge mark
D.Cox racks up midfielder numbers
John Nicholls used his sheer size to dominate
J.Stynes as above
G.Dempsey most marks in the game
Is this replying to me?
I wasn't mocking you in the slightest. What on earth are you on about...
Remember you MUST quote or reference your posts with a NAME!
I do suppose I am 'he' in your above post
What don't I get? That
1/ Ben is a good footballer, even though we traded him
2/ hit out stats are weak
3/ we traded for a second young #1 Ruckman with a high DP (twice)
4/ we got unders for Mac, but paid unders for Longer
Yep sorry for not mentioning your name but imagine if I responded like you to me not quoting everytime you dont quote or mention names. I do it probably once every 10 times you dont do it and I dont do it once and you respond. Anyway back to your points. Ben is a good footballer. Hit out stats are weak but I noticed you mentioned them when camparing Longer to Hicket at the same age. Thats pretty strange. Yes we did trade for a young ruckman twice. Yes I know that. Thanks. And did we get unders for Ben and did we pay unders for Longer. A bit early to say either on that. And that guy who says Ben is the second most disappointing player trade is an idiot.
