Where do our 3 top 20 picks come from this year??

[Saint wagga]

I'm just looking forwards a little to the end of season, and of the stated goal by C Pelchen et al...to obtain another 3 top 20 draft picks...it's certainly an exciting prospect and further evidence of our total rebuilding of the list, but i'm really scratching my head wondering how we will conjure it, assuming we finish in the bottom 2...There's nothing magical about pick 20 being way better than pick 21-25...I wonder why the club would make such a black and white statement with regards to draft pick numbers, unless and please correct me if i'm wrong it was more an aspirational goal...

If we finish in the bottom 2, it still only gives us 1 pick 'inside' the top 20, i think there are some concessions in there already taking a pick away, and throw in a potential free agency swap, although i'm not sure there is any 1st round pick talent looking at switching clubs that would take a really high compensation pick, although it was mentioned that the hawks have a fair bit of cash to splash at years end...

So assuming we finish last or second last and take picks 1-2 and 20-21, where's that third qulaity pick going to come from...there is no A grade talent that appears tradeable. Montagna is the only player who has decent currency in the older group and who's name has been floated about, but it would go against everything he and the club have expressed with regards to being integral to transitoning old to new list profile...

That leaves a bunch of B-C grade talent on the trade table, most of whom would fall into the 'prime age deficit' so glaring on our list ie: 23-28yrs old...Any of that B-C grade talent in the trade category combined with our 3rd round pick which would be well into the 30's...do people think that'd get us a 1st round pick? It doesn't sound good on paper, but perhaps clubs chock full of young draft talent would look at a couple of B-C graders and a draft pick for either a first round pick or a 2nd or 3rd year player previously top 20 and showing a bit...I'm intersted to hear what people with think about where and how we are going to source this talent from because as I said fro the outset, its really exciting to think of the prospect of genuine A grade talent coming to the saints...

[saintfox]

Would we trade draft pick 1 or 2 for 2 picks inside the top 20? I think GWS have a compensation pick along with GWS so could we say trade our pick for their 2 picks? also if we finish bottom could we use the preseason draft to get a high rated player that wants more opportunities? thus bringing in more high end talent?

[bergholt]

We've seen a bit of this discussion in other threads.

I agree with you that we don't really have any players with currency. Pelchen would be a magician if he could turn anyone on our list into a first round pick, except maybe Steven, Dunstan or Billings and trading them out would be a mistake.

I think there are two ways to get an extra top-20 pick:

give our pick 1 - get two later first round picks (say 10 and 15)

give our pick 1 - get a young top-20 equivalent player (prob from GC or GWS) + their first round pick


The first one is hard because that means the team we're trading with needs to pick up a first round pick somewhere else. Also it's not clear that picks 10 and 15 get you enough value to add up to pick 1.

The second one is easier if the right player makes the weight. I can't see huge number of options on the GC list - maybe of the calibre of McKenzie or Russell or Steven May, but I'm not sure they're actually good enough for us to want. Presumably Prestia, Swallow etc aren't options. GWS looks more likely as they have even more young early picks. Jaksch and Patton have been mentioned, Plowman or Corr, O'Rourke or Bugg or Toby Greene. People seem to think Treloar or Shiel might be possibilities but surely they're too good. Still might be some options there.


I'm sure there are plans but hopefully they come off better than the Mitch Brown plan did. I'm told that was as close as it could be to happening, but unfortunately it didn't quite scrape through. We need to make sure of these things.

[Saint wagga]

I'm thinking they wont trade away their top pick...it's pretty prized, but could possibly upgrade picks 2 and 3 with another club and include players...there are tons of possibilities...I just have no idea which players may be dangled as trade fodder...Stanley to Port has been mooted, and it'd be good for us IMO...guys like Gwilt, Gilbert, Armo, Gears, (Steven - probably no chance during pre season, but is it a possibility now after an indifferent season)...I wouldn't like to lose any of those guys because I consider them all Saints men...but like benny Mac, to get talent you have to give something up...

[WinnersOnly]

Wont happen!

The club simply cant afford to trade out any more quality players....

[plugger66]

I'm thinking they wont trade away their top pick...it's pretty prized, but could possibly upgrade picks 2 and 3 with another club and include players...there are tons of possibilities...I just have no idea which players may be dangled as trade fodder...Stanley to Port has been mooted, and it'd be good for us IMO...guys like Gwilt, Gilbert, Armo, Gears, (Steven - probably no chance during pre season, but is it a possibility now after an indifferent season)...I wouldn't like to lose any of those guys because I consider them all Saints men...but like benny Mac, to get talent you have to give something up...

I reckon only Armo and Gibert would get picks out of that list, refuse to even think about Steven going, and only Armo would get a pick inside the top 30 and it would be high end anyway. Dont think it worth getting rid of any of them for what we will get.

[Saint wagga]

I guess this rebuilding phase is a tough time to be as a player...I mean for the best part of decade we were fortunate to accumalet some great talent within a 3 year period, and those players went on to amase great careers and play over 200 games for the saints...I reckon at the moment, the list managers wouldn't be writing off any player bar maybe a couple as being completely off the table if the right trade came along...Like you say Plugger, it's tough to think about guys like Steven or Benny mac last year going elsewhere and not being one club men who play 200+ games for the club, but the environment a rebuild creates is one where sometimes despite a player wanting to be a commited one club man, circumstances just mean 'wrong place at the wrong time'...Something will have to give if the pelch is to follow through on their goals...

[plugger66]

I guess this rebuilding phase is a tough time to be as a player...I mean for the best part of decade we were fortunate to accumalet some great talent within a 3 year period, and those players went on to amase great careers and play over 200 games for the saints...I reckon at the moment, the list managers wouldn't be writing off any player bar maybe a couple as being completely off the table if the right trade came along...Like you say Plugger, it's tough to think about guys like Steven or Benny mac last year going elsewhere and not being one club men who play 200+ games for the club, but the environment a rebuild creates is one where sometimes despite a player wanting to be a commited one club man, circumstances just mean 'wrong place at the wrong time'...Something will have to give if the pelch is to follow through on their goals...

But trading Streven now is dumb. if for some stupid reason you wanted to do it then do it at the end of last season when his value was much higher. Unless Steven has an injury that will effect him for years to come, which he hasnt, then you wouldnt trade after this season because you just wont get the value he is worth. The other thing is he is the age we lack. Its just sets you back even more. Imagine the midfield next year without Hayes and Steven. No pace and no experience and probably many guys who will never make it as players. If you think we are getting smashed this year then I would be scared about what could happen next season. You need to trade good players to get good picks but I dont think there is any point in trading our best young player.

[MC Gusto]

without doing a full list analysis because i just dont have the in depth knowledge you'd have to say that the majority of the new recruits eg recruited in the last couple of years would be off the table...it wouldn't make much sense to either trade for them or draft them and then trade them again in 12-24 months time.

Longer, Hickey, Billings, Acres, Dunstan, Bruce, delaney etc would just not make sense to trade.

Savage maybe...but even he is doubtful and would be surprised if he had any value

I personally think it would be mad to trade steven, armo, newnes etc. based on talent and demographics they are the types of players we have a dearth of at St Kilda

so it leaves the familiar names of gilbo, stanley et al that have been tossed around here but players like that you need a buyer and they have had pretty ordinary seasons to date so what would be their value??

would you consider ross? once again doubtful there would be a buyer on current performance and if he improves he is the type of player / age group we desperately need.

reality is there really isnt much we have left to offer up even as trade sweetners / steak knives to a deal.

so maybe it does come down to trading picks? who knows but it will be interesting to see how it unfolds as Pelch has committed to targeting and achieving 3 picks in the top 20.

[Dis Believer]

Can someone point me to where Pelchen's quote is regarding wanting 3 top twenty picks this year? I recall that last year, and a statement about wanting to increase our first round picks by "50% over the next three years" or something similar to that, but I honestly reckon I missed where he has said we are after another 3 top twenty picks this year......

Where has that "quote" come from ?

[plugger66]

Can someone point me to where Pelchen's quote is regarding wanting 3 top twenty picks this year? I recall that last year, and a statement about wanting to increase our first round picks by "50% over the next three years" or something similar to that, but I honestly reckon I missed where he has said we are after another 3 top twenty picks this year......

Where has that "quote" come from ?

His Mum told someone on here.

[BigMart]

He said increase our picks inside the top 20 by 50% ..... Not FRPs

As a norm... We get two inside 20 if we finish bottom 2.... Therefore it seems he wants 3.

Over a three year period that will net 9 players inside the draft top 20 picks.

[plugger66]

He said increase our picks inside the top 20 by 50% ..... Not FRPs

As a norm... We get two inside 20 if we finish bottom 2.... Therefore it seems he wants 3.

Over a three year period that will net 9 players inside the draft top 20 picks.

So it was you she told? Very good.

[BigMart]

Pelchen made the statement in the off season

[White Winmar]

Can someone point me to where Pelchen's quote is regarding wanting 3 top twenty picks this year? I recall that last year, and a statement about wanting to increase our first round picks by "50% over the next three years" or something similar to that, but I honestly reckon I missed where he has said we are after another 3 top twenty picks this year......

Where has that "quote" come from ?

I believe he is aiming at 5 first rounders, or top twenty picks over a two year period, TB. We have three from last year, so two to go to fill the quota. Where that extra first rounder comes from has me stumped. At a stretch it might be Armo, for a very late first round pick.

[BigMart]

Increase the quota of t20 picks by 50% over a three year period.

Thus bring in far more talent

[plugger66]

Increase the quota of t20 picks by 50% over a three year period.

Thus bring in far more talent

If you are that sure just show TB the quote otherwise why would people believe you over WW. I certainly dont know what he said.

[remboy]

Can someone point me to where Pelchen's quote is regarding wanting 3 top twenty picks this year? I recall that last year, and a statement about wanting to increase our first round picks by "50% over the next three years" or something similar to that, but I honestly reckon I missed where he has said we are after another 3 top twenty picks this year......

Where has that "quote" come from ?

I went back and looked at the comments from those who were at the platinum members event last year and on that occasion Pelchan said we wanted 4 top 20 picks over the next three years (which included last years draft/trade period).
Since we got 3 last year he might not want any extra this year.

[MC Gusto]

If all he wants is 4 and we have 3 already then he's gonna have to give some away!!!

[citywest]

Below is my post from another thread but I thought it would be appropriate for this thread as well......

Delist
Clint Jones
Trent Dennis-Lane
Adam Schneider
Sam Fisher
Beau Maister

Lenny Hayes - Retired.

That leave us with 6 picks in the National Draft......picks 1, 20, 38, 56, 74, 92 (roughly). I'm assuming that 74 and 92 will be used to elevate Eli and Mav. Then we can trade Montagna plus pick 38 to a top 4 team for their first pick (which would be around pick 16).

Going into the National Draft with picks 1, 16 and 20 is pretty good!! We pass on pick 54 and grab a gun in the Pre-Season Draft.

[plugger66]

Below is my post from another thread but I thought it would be appropriate for this thread as well......

Delist
Clint Jones
Trent Dennis-Lane
Adam Schneider
Sam Fisher
Beau Maister

Lenny Hayes - Retired.

That leave us with 6 picks in the National Draft......picks 1, 20, 38, 56, 74, 92 (roughly). I'm assuming that 74 and 92 will be used to elevate Eli and Mav. Then we can trade Montagna plus pick 38 to a top 4 team for their first pick (which would be around pick 16).

Going into the National Draft with picks 1, 16 and 20 is pretty good!! We pass on pick 54 and grab a gun in the Pre-Season Draft.

Firstly when was the last gun taken in the PSD and secondly I reckon lenny may play on. Tall early to call on Sam Fisher as well but in a little trouble and we cant just pick who we trade players to. However a couple of young players will go so you could get your wish on the numbers that will be delisted.

[lloyd21]

Would we trade draft pick 1 or 2 for 2 picks inside the top 20? I think GWS have a compensation pick along with GWS so could we say trade our pick for their 2 picks? also if we finish bottom could we use the preseason draft to get a high rated player that wants more opportunities? thus bringing in more high end talent?

Does not have to give anything if you pick 1 in 1st round of Draft &

Then trades in 3 way deal with another club who give GWS an experienced player we get uncontracted 1st rounder Gws player.

Pretty sure Gws have to reduce their whole list by 8 they have 48 all others 40.
Again get uncontracted 1st round Player thru PSD from GWS due to having early pick they have heaps.

[remboy]

Firstly when was the last gun taken in the PSD

David Strooper.

[plugger66]

Firstly when was the last gun taken in the PSD

David Strooper.

Apart from him.

[remboy]

Firstly when was the last gun taken in the PSD

David Strooper.

Apart from him.

You're not being realistic if you expect us to pick another David Strooper every year.